Talk:Owen Hart/Archive 1

The Game
The stuff aboot Owen being the Game. Is this documented anywhere or just rumour?(Halbared 08:17, 22 June 2006 (UTC))

Is there any reliable source for the claim that HHH's nickname "The Game" was originally meant for Owen??? I can't find any source for it on the internet except for IMDB.com which isn't all that reliable when it comes to wrestling info...


 * Paul "HHH" Levesque has confirmed it in interviews.


 * thats really weird. i always suspected his character was going towards being the game. being that damn good. real shame

Owen 3:16
"Owen 3:16 says 'I just broke your neck'." - I remember seeing this on t-shirts and references made on WWF TV, but did Owen actually say this? Anybody remember? Bcarlson33 14:18, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I dunno, but it's a very memorable quote! I've been after that t-shirt for years... was it ever released for fans????


 * There should probably be a part in his wrestling career mentioning the origins of the catchphrase. I don't have a direct reference, but I believe he said it to incorporate the Steve Austin incident in with his character (Hart legitimately broke Austin's neck with a botched piledriver... check the Austin page for details).208.197.234.251 20:33, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Owen InMemory.jpg
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RAW is Owen
I think it's important enough. I think we should do a wiki on RAW is Owen. --Kitch 11:06, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Dear whom ever it may concer owen hart was a 4 time tag team champ...

Owen Hart & Yokozuna Sept. 25, 1995

Owen Hart & Yokozuna's second World Tag Team Championship reign didn't last more than an hour or so. At In Your House 3, the duo lost the titles to Diesel & Shawn Michaels, but Owen did not show up until the latter stages of the match as The British Bulldog had taken his place up to that point. Hart was pinned, but the next night on RAW, the team's lawyer, Clarence Mason, threatened legal action against WWE if the titles were not given back to Hart & Yokozuna. He stated that since Owen did not start the match, his being pinned was illegal. The titles were returned to Hart & Yokozuna, but they then defended the same titles against The Smokin' Gunns later in the evening and were beaten again, and this time the total change stuck.
 * By your own explantion Owen was NOT a four time champion, Diesel & Shawn were forced to give the titles back to Owen & Yoko, they never legally won them - so Owen & Yoko never legally lost them either, it was a "Dusty Finish". This is along the lines of the Jericho/HHH title change that happened and was then undone. Unless someone disagrees it should be changed back to 3 times tag-team champion. MPJ-DK 20:09, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

I disagree with you and if you dont beleive me, then go check out WWE.com's title section and it will clearly show that Owen is a 4 time World Tag Team Champion (twice with Yoko, once with Davey Boy and once with Jarrett)220.235.113.3 (talk) 07:55, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Austin + RAW is Owen
I'm asking for a verifiable source on people finding Austin's tribute controversial and Austin's alleged dislike of Owen, since Have A Nice Day! recounts an instance of Mick, Owen & Steve having a great time together after his neck injury.

Dont worry its just a nasty wrestling rumor and nothing of any substance. 220.235.113.3 (talk) 08:00, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

3.16?
"Owen 3:16/I Just Broke Your Neck" - I thought it was "Owen 9:11" Speedboy Salesman (talk) 09:47, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Owen's Ghost
Okay, can we please not give these RIDICULOUS rumors creedance as to include them in Owen's encyclopedia article? 72.200.156.118 (talk) 01:20, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Amen to that. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. 137.14.10.22 (talk) 18:04, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Death
It says viewers at home didn't see the Death, but I'm quite sure they did. My father watched it, and I started watching it a minute after it happened. I was watching PPV in Canada, they weren't showing the promotions. Maybe it was different in the USA?
 * In the USA they were on the crowd the whole time (they were on a seven delay and were able to edit Owen's death). OsFan 02:30, 2 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I have the original pay per view on tape (A friend of mine taped it off pay per view live) and is no footage of either Owen falling nor the ring after the fall. Jim Ross introduced the video package and when it came back the camera stayed on the crowd until it was cleared.  The camera then showed Jim Ross and a visibly shaken Jerry Lawler at the announce table.  They introduced the video package or the next match and that was it.  No footage of anything. Ganley89416:00 11 September 2006 (EDT)


 * On a youtube video however, when viewers under the SAP setting to get spanish commentary were viewing the pay per view, the actual crash of owen hitting the ring can be heard, due to the Spanish commentators still being on air to translate the video. The commentators also reacted to the crash by saying "Oh no!"  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.204.90.230 (talk) 02:28, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Legacy
I dispute the neutrality of this section as it clearly has point of view and weasel words in it.  Cra sh  Underride  17:22, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Wrong dates
Owen hart did not die in 1999 like this article says........i remember talking about it in art class when i was in junior high and i didnt start high school until 1998...... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Grrybrwn82 (talk • contribs) 20:12, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Owen Hart did die in 1999. It was at the Over The Edge pay-per-view May 23, 1999 Chrissytina515 (talk) 22:43, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Feature article candidacy
Should We Consider Featuring This Article or should we wait some more? KingRaven (&gt;$.$)&gt; (talk) 05:53, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Neutrality
My problems with the current article is that it is too bias. It contains lots of verification and citation, however, that does not mean the article is good. We need to remove a lot of the quotes and fan cruft. Fighting for Justice (talk) 17:59, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The neutrality of this article isn't disputed at all. Fighting for Justice has, bizarrely, taken exception to myself simply adding reliable cites to support existing material in the article. I have made no alterations whatsoever to the content of the article, merely added additional cites (in the form of reliable quotations from wrestling peers) to support it, which he/she seems to believe constitutes "bias". Comments from peers themselves cannot constitute "bias" - they simply ARE. Only alteration of text to a biased tone can do such a thing, and again: the article itself has not been altered. My added citations simply give stronger support to what already existed within the article. Hopefully impartial editors can oversee this situation and illuminate the absurdity of Fighting for Justice's actions. Winsburger (talk) 18:06, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Do we really need to be told by so many people what a great wrestler Owen was? I strongly think that 3(citations) is enough, 6 is overkill. Everyone repeats the same thing.  The amount of fan cruft in the article is astounding.Fighting for Justice (talk) 18:39, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * "I strongly think that 3(citations) is enough, 6 is overkill." Well, there were two before, and only five now, so we needn't worry about the overkill you speak of. The ones I added bolster the article, and I don't plan to seek out any more. Why not find another article to work on than driving a petty agenda? Winsburger (talk) 20:40, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Used condensed cite (including three previous quotes). Now only three cites used, as you deemed appropriate, while the viewpoints I presented earlier are still available to read. Dispute resolved. Winsburger (talk) 21:19, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
 * ok, that's fair enough. Fighting for Justice (talk) 21:23, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

The harness stunt
Was the harness stunt akin to what Shawn Michael's did at Wrestlemania or was it like what Sting used to do in WCW?

I think it would be important to point this out.

No. As publicised, Owen's death was due to the "quick-release" mechanism the WWF had installed onto the harness/wire being caught by something. Shawn Michaels & Sting had lots of safety mechanisms, but due to Vince's perfectionism, the landing of Owen's character "wasn't quite right", so they added a quick-release mechanism which only required 6lbs of pressure to release. Therefore it's totally different to those stunts. (WilkoDCFC 09:54, 3 August 2007 (UTC))

Says who? The articles source for the info is a posting on a gaming site that mentions no sources. The posting claims the harness was a sailboat harness??? It also claims that no information about the harness was released due to the terms of the settlement. If so, how does he or she know or anybody know it was a sailboat harness with the backups disengaged? Also, some sources say Owen triggered the quick release himself before the actual stunt by taking his cloak out of the harness where it got caught, if that's the case then the weight pressure was irrelevant. So which is the real story? This article is a bit too certain about what actually happened IMHO. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.103.144.16 (talk) 13:24, 6 February 2010 (UTC)


 * First, you are replying to a post from 2007. Second, this article quotes sources, if you have a problem find different sources then take a read of this and this. Darrenhusted (talk) 23:17, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

First, the reply may be to a post from 2007, but at the time the issues mentioned were very much present in the article. Second, the quoted sources are/were unreliable and irrelevant and in total conflict with each other. Thankfully, I see a lot of this was cleaned up, so at least someone agreed with me.

Where did this sentence concerning the harness being used for carpenter's tools come from? This is the first time I've come across it. If that is the case the WWE would surely be liable criminally. Can we get a source or removal? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.169.244.29 (talk) 13:40, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

It's nonsense. It's well established that the harness was a typical stunt harness for people, not for tools or sailboat masts. The issue was with the quick release mechanism, not with the harness itself. The reason people keep pushing the tools and sailboat mast version is because certain people want to paint Vince in the worst possible light possible, and claiming that he used a completely inappropriate harness does that.

Bret Hart vs. Chris Benoit tribute match
I'd like to add this to the article, but I'm not sure where. The Raw is Owen section is a fitting end to the biographical section. Maybe another small section underneath that could discuss WCW's on-screen reaction, Bret Hart's career being affected by Owen's death, and the subsequent Monday Nitro tribute match announced by Harley Race at Kemper Arena. Cale (talk) 05:49, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Raw is Owen Mistakw
It was written on here that both Undertaker & Kane did not appear on the show. That was incorrect as Kane did appear on the show when he teamed up with X-Pac vs. Gangrel & Edge. Undertaker was the only one not to appear on the show. I've changed it just then. --Darkside05 (talk) 10:57, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Early professional career
Last night (7 Jun 07) on ESPN Classic in the UK they showed a tag-team bout from World Of Sport in which Dave Fit Finlay wrestled Owen Hart. The commentator, by alluding to Bret Hart, confirmed it was this Owen (besides the fact it clearly was him visually), aged 18, wrestling on national UK TV. Surely this then pre-dates the articles 1986 professional debut?? He won the preliminary bout two falls to one, with another gentleman who apparently was a Hart brother but I didn't recognise either him nor the name. Sadly apart from knowing he definitely wrestled in 1983 on World of Sport, I have no further information. VonBlade 18:10, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I think Owen wrestled under a mask on Stampede spot shows and did the tour of the UK with his brother Ross in 1983. He would have still been in school and later college. When he made his 'debut' in 1986 he was already a seasoned professional. — Preceding unsigned comment added by HappHazzard (talk • contribs) 23:51, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Inconsistencies
On this page it claims Owen hit the ropes with his chest however on the page for Over the Edge 1999 it claims he hit his head on then turnbuckle. He can't have done both so which was it? 222.155.100.110 (talk) 00:31, 29 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes, he could have done both. Chest on the turnbuckle pad which covers the corner in the ropes and head on the turnbuckle which is actually the metal peice that connects the turnbuckle pad/ropes to the turnbuckle post.  Cra sh  Underride  17:23, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Um, no, the rope and the turnbuckle are two different things. hence, why one is called a "rope" and the other a "turnbuckle." There is no way you can hit both at the same time, it's physically impossible. Also, this page now says he hit the ropes *away* from the "nearest" turnbuckle which makes the articles even more inconsistent with each other. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.205.57.121 (talk) 10:21, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Owen's stunt
One thing I never understood was why didnt the WWF show Owen's stunt on camera? Surely a wrestler descending from the ceiling was something the WWF wanted the audience to see? Instead they showed a vignette. I dont want to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but perhaps someone didnt want footage of his fall being captured. Portillo (talk) 02:05, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

owen hart+debra+ jeff jarrett love storyline should we add it
should we include this in the column??? owen was due to do this storyline. but he he declined because he did not want his family to see him with another woman ((owen was a family man)) so the next idea they came up with was the blue blazer gimmick..which led to his tragic death —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fingerpokeofdoom (talk • contribs) 00:50, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you have a Reliable source for this? Cause otherwise it's just a rumor and that doesn't belong on Wikipedia. MPJ-DK (talk) 05:37, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

yes it says it on the owen hart a/e video, it's on youtube but i cant find the link...never mind i'll try find it lol —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fingerpokeofdoom (talk • contribs) 01:06, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Youtube isn't a reliable source, due to it illegally hosting copyrighted videos. Another source is needed. Thanks, ♥ Nici ♥ Vampire ♥ Heart ♥ 23:44, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

here's the source http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=JS1xgdPzjj0&amp;feature=related dave meltzer says it at the 3 minute 40 second mark... is it going to be added
 * Direct quote from the article, "During this time a storyline was proposed that Owen Hart was supposed to have an on-screen affair with Debra, something which Owen turned down, most likely because Owen was such a family man."
 * It's under the "1998-1999" section, at the end of the 5th paragraph. ♥ Nici ♥ Vampire ♥ Heart ♥ 23:58, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
 * May I ask that the added bit be integrated properly into the paragraph after it? The way it's worded right now it sounds like Owen teamed with Jarrett and Debra RIGHT after SummerSlam 1998, but this is not correct. I am watching through RAW, Shotgun, and Heat from 1998 right now and Owen is about to "quit" just before Judgment Day... nearly TWO MONTHS after SummerSlam. Debra has also not debuted yet. I assume that the Blue Blazer character is when he's teaming with Jarrett going by the text in the article? As a child I started watching several months after Owen's death, so I am actually completely unfamiliar with this storyline! - 66.232.192.235 (talk) 23:19, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

About his death
Is the footage shown in the article is really his death? becuse some people claim the footge is a New Jack bump?

That bump was taken by Vic Grimes against New Jack in an XPW scaffold match in February 2002. Owen Hart's death was never seen on PPV. Vic729 14:24, July 10th, 2006 (EDT)

I'm reading Owen's wife's book at the moment, and it wasn't that a WWF logo was placed next to his flowers but that a WWF logo was made entirely out of flowers, which she had changed to Owen's initials. I have changed this on the page. Also, she made note that a friend's son (in Canada) was watching the pay-per-view, but did NOT see the actual death because the cameras quickly panned away in her area, as well.


 * Let's clear this up once and for all:
 * Owen Hart's fall was not show on the PPV broadcast. A pre-taped promo was airing on the broadcast when Owen fell from the rafters during preparation for his stunt.
 * No footage of Owen in the ring after the fall was aired, due to WWE production utilizing the several-second delay in broadcasting, and keeping the live feed focused on the audience instead of the ring.
 * Footage of said fall is not likely to exist anywhere outside of the WWE tape library, if such footage even exists and is viewable (since Kemper Arena had been darkened for the promo & planned stunt).
 * The Over The Edge event on 23 May 1999 remains one of the few WWE PPV events that has never been legitimately released on video in any format. - Chadbryant 08:51, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

wer rt at 2233

Okay well,owen's death was just sooo graphic and well i was only 5 but i was there and i remember i just, i was dressed in blue blazer attire, and the sad thing was, there was an undertaker match that night as listed in the article my friend had a sign saying owen can rest.

in peace i havent talked to him ever since.I myself have a video containing pictures of owens harts death and the kemper arena is very dark and it had nothing to do with a scaffold at all that was a low budget XPW match Owen R.I.P

I remember reading that he died in the hospital. How does anyone know he died in the ring? Hiphopchamp 17:43, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

He was pronounced dead on arrival at the hospital so it is possible, however I think they would have known, not to sure though —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.235.113.3 (talk) 07:59, 19 March 2008 (UTC)


 * its possible (and completely plausible) that he died n the ring, but just because a person dies it dosnt quite mean its the end medically speaking just that their heart has stopped, you see you have a 7 minute window after the heart stops to restart it before the brain dies and the EMT's would have been attempting to restart his heart in the ambulance as they headed to the hospital, thus his actual "official time and place of death" as called by a medical professional can differ to the time he "physically" died when his heart stopped, - so both situations could actually be correct without contradicting one an other, if he died in the ring but was pronounced as unable to be resuscitated whilst in the ambulance then was "officially" confirmed as being and pronounced DOA at the hospital than that's why their are two seemingly contradictory statements Tony Spike (talk) 20:36, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Raw is Owen
It is written that the Undertaker was the only one not on stage on the tribute Raw following Owens death. Does anyone know why? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.69.7.10 (talk) 19:59, 4 January 2007 (UTC).

apparently wwe/wwf thought it a good idea not to have "the deadman" on stage as it may have been a bit tactless. I see thei82.16.90.25 19:09, 26 July 2007 (UTC)r point
 * Is there any way of putting that in the article? Because reading it, to me at least, it came off as there being some kind of bad blood between the two or Undertaker was being disrespectful Agent452 19:49, 1 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Undertaker actually went to visit Bret in-person. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.176.90.229 (talk) 03:14, 11 March 2007 (UTC).

Can this be changed on the Wiki page as can appear unclear to people. People who aren't big wrestling fans might misinterpret it as there being a feud between Owen and Undertaker or that they weren't friends in real life. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.110.52.117 (talk) 13:04, 13 November 2008 (UTC)


 * anyone have any info on why Kane is mentioned as not being their either? he is the one i understand the least because he was at the show — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tony Spike (talk • contribs) 20:39, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Finishing Moves
Did Owen not use the Spinning Wheel Kick as a finishing move throughout his NOD run? Antonio013 (talk) 17:54, 1 August 2010 (UTC)


 * no - he used it from even earlier and was ending matches with it from way back in 1993 to the time of his death, possibly longer, it was simply a favorite move of his that he used often Tony Spike (talk) 20:50, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Fart To Hart
Whoever admins this page, whenever you're free please do a replace-all on the word Fart and change it back to Hart. 208.51.208.150 (talk) 17:36, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I fixed it. Someone should try to ban the person who did it.&#42;Treker (talk) 18:28, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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World champion
Stop removing the mention that he is a world champion. It is common practise to write it out in the articles. The fact that the title also has "World championship" in the title is irrelevant.&#42;Treker (talk) 23:52, 9 October 2016 (UTC)

Also:

"Hart was a one-time Unified USWA World Heavyweight Championship during the USA's partnership"

This is the sentence that you are reverting back to. Not well written.
 * Saying "world champion" twice needless duplication. It does make sense to say, for example, "Big Show is a seven-time world champion" then list the straps won, but doing this for a one-time world champion is pointless clutter. Anyone who looks at the name "USWA World Heavyweight Championship" knows it's a world title. 2A02:C7F:8E43:2F00:AC9E:3F04:A327:23A8 (talk) 00:42, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I disagree. I think it looks much better since it is consistent with the other articles. Also, I think it's pretty silly to claim that it isn't about who is right but about making the best article when someone is reverting to a gramatically bad sentance. &#42;Treker (talk) 00:48, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Sure thing. Find one English textbook that encourages saying the same thing twice, with almost identical language, in the same sentence. Hart isn't consistent with multi-time world champions because he wasn't one. 2A02:C7F:8E43:2F00:AC9E:3F04:A327:23A8 (talk) 00:56, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Maybe if you act remotely mature and not remove a bunch of relevant information fram and article because you're crying that you are not getting it your way.&#42;Treker (talk) 01:00, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
 * You're a lazy editor.&#42;Treker (talk) 01:03, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

For the love of god, show the maturity required as a Wikipedia editor and put the project before your own fragile ego. There is absolutely no sourcing for the In Your House claim in the lede (it's supported by a Wikipedia article, which is completely and utterly against WP:RS), and there are designated sections for his title wins and match ratings. The lede should NOT be cluttered with esoteric detail that is repeated throughout the body. 2A02:C7F:8E43:2F00:AC9E:3F04:A327:23A8 (talk) 01:04, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Jesus christ you're such a big hypocrite. It's baffling. You're literally removing half the lead because you're to lazy to do it right and can't form a sentence correctly. I've asked for a coment form other projetc editors. I'm tired of you.&#42;Treker (talk) 01:10, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm removing half the lede because it's garbage. And yeah, I'll take advice from the guy who thinks saying the same thing twice in once sentence constitutes good writing. 2A02:C7F:8E43:2F00:AC9E:3F04:A327:23A8 (talk) 01:20, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

I agree with the anon. The other version is overly long, redundant, poorly worded, improperly sourced, and, most importantly, not neutral, as it's written in a overly praising fashion. oknazevad (talk) 01:41, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

Inconsistency
This page says Owen landed chest first on the top rope a foot from the nearest turnbuckle, but the Over the Edge PPV page says he landed chest first on one of the turnbuckles directly. Which is it? Spartan198 (talk) 09:14, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

Mention death controversies in lead?
We have a large subsection about them in the body, seems weird to see the lead not summarize something indicating the fallout. It was pretty huge. Didn't just die like Pillman, Spicolli or Rude. My wording maybe sucked, perhaps rightly deleted. But it's still a leadworthy aspect of his legacy, I think, if a better writer wants to try. InedibleHulk (talk) 04:03, 5 September 2020 (UTC)