Talk:Oxford University Ice Hockey Club

Edits
There are 2 teams with similar names in the BUIHA, the Oxford Blues (http://www.buiha.org.uk/club.php?club=32) and the Oxford University Blues (http://www.buiha.org.uk/club.php?club=5#). The title of this page is Oxford University Ice Hockey Club and therefore should clearly be about the later.

undo of revision 625263170
Hi Donners18,

I just wanted to give a little explanation on why I undid your edits:

Line 1: I was going on the official team name on the league website listing here. I've added a reference now so it's clear where this name comes from.

Line 8: According to the league website listing this team only plays in division 1? Could you explain?

Line 16: For the captain's name I was going on their website, for example this page. Again I've added a reference so it's clear where that comes from. Could you explain why you deleted this?

For the website, the link you provided doesn't seem to have any information on this team. According to the league website listing the official website is this page. Again I've referenced that now for clarity. Could you explain why you edited this?

Line 43: As shown by the reference, I got the 2014 playoff information from the British Universities Ice Hockey Association wikipedia listing. Could you explain why you removed this information given it was referenced?

Line 57: As for Line 8 above.

Thanks!

Jollyoldsport (talk) 22:02, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

undo of revision as of 19:54, November 11, 2015 by 81.110.86.30
Dear 81.110.86.30,

I just wanted to explain why I have undone your latest edit. This page is about the history of the Oxford Blues ice hockey team. The links and information you have posted appear to be about a different team, the Oxford University Blues. According to the British Universities Ice Hockey Association, the Oxford University Blues used to be called the Oxford Vikings. Their website states: "The Oxford University Blues (formerly Vikings) look to be holding their own and having knocked off the Panthers I think they will be mid table boys, which is not bad for their first season." Before you edit the page again, please could you explain how the links and information you are posting relate to the history of the Oxford Blues team?

Finally please add talk page edits at the bottom of the talk page and also please sign your posts.

Thanks!

Jollyoldsport (talk) 23:46, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Oxford University Ice Hockey CLub
This page is about the Oxford University Ice hockey club, the Vikings still exist, they are part of that club. http://www.sport.ox.ac.uk/sport/ice-hockey-2/

81.110.86.30 (talk) 19:28, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

undo of revision 690496471 by 81.110.86.30
Dear 81.110.86.30,

Thank you for that link. I can see there is a Vikings team, but this must be a new team, since according to the information I provided from the British Universities Ice Hockey Association, the Oxford University Blues were formerly called the Vikings, and had their first season last year. If this is correct, then they are a different team to the historic Oxford Blues team, which is the subject of this article.

If you disagree with this, can you please explain how the British Universities Ice Hockey Association information is wrong? As I understand it the British Universities Ice Hockey Association information are part of the the English Ice Hockey Association, which is subordinate to Ice Hockey UK which is part of the International Ice Hockey Federation the worldwide governing body for ice hockey. So it seems reasonable to assume the information they have published is correct. If so, the only way there can be both an Oxford Vikings team and an Oxford University Blues team is if the Vikings are a new team.

I noticed you also deleted a reference to a published article by the International University Sports Federation, the worldwide governing body for student sport. Please could you explain why you deleted a referenced article from a reliable source such as this?

Before you edit the page again please could you also offer some explanation for the above, and therefore how the information and links you have added relate to the historic team that is the subject of this article?

Thanks!

Jollyoldsport (talk) 23:28, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

====

You seem to be confused, "Oxford University Ice Hockey Club (OUIHC) is the sports club which represents Oxford University at Ice Hockey. We have three teams: [including the] Men’s first team – Oxford University Blue". "The Oxford Blues [are] and independent club" (http://www.sport.ox.ac.uk/sport/ice-hockey-2/). This is from the official Oxford University Sport page so if you disagree wit this can you please explain how this is wrong

81.110.86.30 (talk) 06:36, 14 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Dear 81.110.86.30,


 * Unfounded personal remarks suggesting that I am "confused" are disrespectful and against Wikipedia's Civility policy. Please be civil, and please do not criticize the characteristics or authority of an author without addressing the substance of the argument.


 * I see you have again re-added your new edits to the page and removed references to a reliable source of information without any explanation as to why you have removed this information. I also see that your editing of this article on November 10, 2015 was your first ever contribution to wikipedia.


 * Anyhow, let's try to get down to referenced factual information, and see if we can reach a consensus:


 * You have stated that the "Oxford University Ice Hockey Club" now has three teams, one of which is the Oxford University Blues. I agree that, according to the links you have supplied, that this appears to be factually correct.
 * However, the Oxford Blues team still exists, according to the information referenced in the article that you have repeatedly deleted, including a referenced article by the International University Sports Federation, the worldwide governing body for student sport. This article also states that the Oxford Blues are run by a registered charity independent from Oxford University. Can we then agree that there are currently two teams in existence, the  Oxford Blues (independent from Oxford University) and the Oxford University Blues (part of Oxford University)?
 * According to the referenced information I have supplied, Oxford University Blues are a new team, and were formerly known as the Vikings, and had their first season last year. Do you agree?
 * According to information that was added to the article when it was first created in January 2007, at this time the Oxford University Ice Hockey Club title was being used by a single team, also known as the Oxford Blues (a description that remained in the article from January 2007 until your your first contribution to wikipedia on November 10 2015). This is also consistent with the archived website at ouihc.com and other historical information referenced in the article. Do you agree, then, that at one time (around 2007) the Oxford Blues team was also known, exclusively, as the Oxford University Ice Hockey Club?


 * Please can we at least try to reach consensus on the above, seeing as it's all reliably referenced?


 * Thanks, Jollyoldsport (talk) 16:09, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

I would agree with 1 and 2. However with 3, the Oxford University Blues are the men's 1st team for the Oxford University Ice Hockey Club and the Vikings are the 2nd. Would you agree that the members of the Oxford University Blues team left the club to form the Oxford Blues? If so then surely the 2nd team as the only remaining men's team becomes the 1st team. The teams however retained the places in the league of the teams as they were previously known. The Women's team has existed since long before 2007 so I would have to disagree with 4.

Which team can claim the history of the club, or if it is both, is another matter. This page is about the Oxford University Ice Hockey Club and if the Oxford Blues left that club to form a new team then a new page needs to be created for them. This is why I have repeated deleted the FISU link. I also believe this page needs updating to reference that the Oxford University Ice Hockey Club has 3 teams, this page does seem to be just about the Oxford University Blues.

I don't see why you repeated mention this being my first attempt at editing especially as it is not

81.110.86.30 (talk) 00:09, 15 November 2015 (UTC)


 * Dear 81.110.86.30,
 * I'm glad we agree about items 1 and 2 above.
 * In relation to your statements about points 3 and 4, please remember, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a soapbox. Much of what you have written appears to be your personal opinion. For the factual claims you have made, please could you supply references to support these statements?
 * Finally, according to your wikipedia user contributions page, your first edit to wikipedia was on November 10, 2015, when you undid my edits to this wikipedia page. Is that incorrect?
 * Thanks,
 * Jollyoldsport (talk) 20:26, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

As per your 2nd point you agree that the Oxford Blues are not part of OUIHC and therefore as per Wikipedia guidelines is not what this article is about

I must have misunderstood you, I thought you agreed that the members of the Oxford University Blues left the OUIHC to form the Oxford Blues.

The Women's blues was formed in 1981

Yes, I also fail to see the relevance 81.110.86.30 (talk) 22:12, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Oxford Blues vs. Oxford University Blues
It seems pretty clear that there are two teams, that both are linked historically to OUIHC, and that both studiously avoid mentioning each other on their respective web sites. Evidently there was some kind of split, perhaps between the then first team and second team. Oxford Blues is linked to the Oxford Canadians ("the first Team Canada"); Oxford University Blues is linked to the Women's Blues team. Given the shared heritage, this article seems to be an ideal place to clarify the situation. In particular, there appear to be two (men's) Varsity matches this year (2016), the 96th in March (Oxford Blues) and the 98th in May (Oxford University Blues). Cambridge [University] Blues lists both matches as Varsity matches, but what happened to the 97th?
 * http://oxforduniversityicehockey.com (cf. http://www.buiha.org.uk/club.php?club=5)
 * http://oxfordicehockey.com (cf. http://www.buiha.org.uk/club.php?club=31)
 * http://www.cherwell.org/2013/05/09/ice-hockey-players-denied-blues-status/
 * http://www.buiha.org.uk/club-schedule.php?club=10 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.76.8.19 (talk) 13:18, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

Incidentally, the "Ice hockey in the United Kingdom" box links to the present article under "Oxford Blues". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.76.8.19 (talk) 13:58, 10 May 2016 (UTC)