Talk:Oz (TV series)/Archive 1

Adebisi
I love the POV here - Schillinger "commits atrocities against other inmates" and "his behaviour demonstrates the prison system's indifference to humanity", but Adebisi on the other hand "is a strong anchoring character" who "remains the most powerful inmate within the walls of Oz up until his death". Never mind that Adebisi is a rapist, a drug dealer and a police murderer who infected another inmate with AIDS on purpose. Why is Adebisi glorified?
 * OK, I am going to change that, anonymous, because you are right, it is not consistent.--cda 13:26, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Muslim gang write-up
They wish to expose the racism, brutality, and injustice in the prison system whenever an opportunity arises. has been amended to They wish to expose what they perceive as racism, brutality, and injustice in the prison system whenever an opportunity arises. Also some additional facts should be added (Said was expelled when he wanted to accept Beecher in as a Muslim; also the gang is up against the gangbangers and other groups). In its original format it is clearly not NPOV.

Irish gang?
Is there really an Irish gang in Oz? I don't recall seeing any Irish people except the O'Reillys. 80.178.231.66


 * Timmy Kirk is Irish, I suppose, but he went along to the religious strifes rather than hanging around with Ryan O'Reilly. cun 13:50, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks. OzOz 13:27, 26 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I recall one more irish (apart from Kirk and the O'Reillys) who was always talking with O'Reilly, but it was usually like, they talked two muted lines and then the scene started. That was Liam Meaney

First off: yes, there was an Irish gang. It was one of the ten groups denoted by McManus at the beginning of the second season when he formed the inmate council. Those are the same ten in the article. --Kitch 14:13, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Em City or M City?
Also, is the shorthand for Emerald City "Em City" or "M City"? It could be considered a Unit M, since there's already a Unit E (the AIDS ward). --Kitch 14:13, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
 * No, it is short for 'Emerald City,' because the place is called 'Oz,' as in Wizard of Oz. Megan 06:22, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
 * The titles on the DVDs usually refer to it as the "Em City," I believe, and Em City is actually Unit 5. Sexyactionnick 08:38, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The AIDS unit is Unit F, not E. at least according the very last episode that I just finished watching. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.183.96.237 (talk) 22:46, 8 March 2007 (UTC).

Keller's "Death"
Having not seen the last episode (waiting to watch whole series in order), I'm noting a disparity between various character bios on the internet and specifically on Wikipedia. Did Keller kill himself to frame Beecher, or did Beecher push Keller, causing his fall? Megan 06:55, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Beats me, I've seen it and thought Beecher pushed him, (Though not intending to kill him) but later when he spoke with Peter Marie she asked him if he pushed Keller and he told him that he didn't. He could have been lying to save his own ass, but he sounded quite sincere to me. (And somehow I believe his character would have taken the responsibility for such an action - but then again, I may be naive :)) OzOz


 * Keller committed suicide, preferring not to lead a life without Tobias Beecher. cun 20:07, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

No, there was a struggle...Keller admitted he set Beacher up to get him back in OZ...the struggle was pushing and shoving, and Keller went over the edge (average end to a bad man). As for "I believe Beacher would take responsibility..." no, that is a little naive...Beacher spend the episode wondering if he shouldnt invent evidence to send Keller to the chair. Cialovesyou 11:37, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Number of members in each gang
When MacManus categoriezd the inmates in Em-city into 10 gangs (In the second episode of the second season) he said that there will be no more than 4 members of each gang in Emerald city at any given time.

However, I've counted more than 4 latinos and 4 Italians several times.

For example, in episode "Cruel and unusual punishments" I counted 5 latinos. After Ryan fucks the latinos and Sean Murphy finds drugs in their pod, 3 latinos (El cid, guerra and a third latin whose name I don't recall) are taken away, while Alvarez sneaks away and a fifth latin (One with a long black hair who appeared to be Alvarez' right hand in the earlier episodes) passes next to him. OzOz


 * I think they abandonded that idea after season 2. cun 20:06, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I think they abandoned the idea of strict numbers, but still having inmates of every gang in there. In Season 4, the idea was dropped with the new Unit Supervisor and then reinstituted when McManus came back as Unit 5, Emerald City, Supervisor. Because also, what group was Chris Keller in? He was in league with the Aryans, but Beecher never would have trusted him if he was one, probably the same with the bikers (though Keller was a biker on the outside, was he in a biker gang?). He would have had to be an "Other," though those four would have been Beecher, Rebadow, Hill, and Busmalis...plus Keller would have been one too many.Sexyactionnick 08:47, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Tattoo
so tom fontana got a real tattoo of 'OZ'? i figured they could just fake the needling. thats some real commitment to make the show a real and lasting part of you -Lordraydens 03:15, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Groves
Donald Groves is missing entierly from the list of inmates, and page altogether. He's the one who killed his parents and ate his mother (and was saving his father for Thanksgiving). -VitaminJ 11:30, 31 March 2006
 * Then feel free to put him in. cun 17:15, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I was the one who deleted him. He is a character, but not a main character. (He was executed in the middle of the first season, while the series ran for 6. And before the attempt on Glynn's life he was left in the background most of the time)
 * This series has many more characters who were not mentioned in the main cast list in this article. (For example, Lemuel Idzik who murdered Kareem Said and Omar white)
 * However, I believe a different page called Characters of Oz should be written, where all of the characters in the series get a mention, and will be sorted by season. OzOz 08:24, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Disability
The correct term is not "wheel-chair bound," but "wheelchair-user." So I changed it to reflect a neutral point of view. People aren't "confined" or "bound" to wheelchairs. They use them.

A full series synopsis
I think about writing a complete synopsis of the things that happened throughout this series.

I thought about writing an article describing each main gang, (Homeboys, Muslims, Latinos, Aryans etc.) which will explain the changes that took place in each gang throughout the series. (Leadership replacement, wars, other interests and goals etc. Much like the articles written about the characters in Oz.)

The way I see it, all of the information regarding the entire gangs is quite inaccessible to anyone who hasn't watched the entire show.

The most interesting gangs in my opinion are -
 * The Homeboys
 * The Sicilians (Maybe the mobsters or the mafia?)
 * Aryan Brotherhood
 * El Norte (The Latin gang)
 * The Muslims

I am not sure about the bikers, however. Some things have clearly happened in this gang (First they were independent, then they joined the Aryans, then the had a fight thanks to O'reilly and there were some other things) but most of the time, this gang is quite in the background, mainly muscle for hire for other inmates or working with the Aryans.

In my opinion, there isn't all that much to say about the Christians, the gays and the Irish; And "the others" act independently, so I believe we can stick to the individual articles. OzOz 20:54, 18 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree that a plot synopsis is needed. We should begin with one on the main page here. Wikiproject television suggests that as it grows it should be separated into seaparate articles for each season and then each episode. Summary's should remain on the main page for each season.--Opark 77 08:03, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Prison layout
Another thing that might be written is a layout of Oz - what different parts of the Prison were shown in the series? (There is Em-city, of course, Unit B, the cops' unit, the Aids ward, the infirmary, death row, the Cafeteria, the dress factory, (Which was only seen twice throughout the entire show if I recall correctly - when Hill, Beecher and Reabadow were speaking in the first episode and when Morales and his crew murdered the Chinese guy with the staples gun) the mail room, the offices of Glynn, Mukada and Peter Marie, some storage rooms where people get murdered, the Gym, the hole/solitary/Protective custody and that's it I believe) I'd love it if someone could build some sort of a sketch of the entire prison. (The one in HBO's site ain't that good - there are no notes explaining what's what and I can't understand what I'm seeing) OzOz 20:54, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
 * This would be a useful resource but wikipedia is probably not the place for it as it would be a form of original research. Rob Durfee's Oz page is a comprehensive fansite perhaps they might host it for you if you manage to amass the information needed to draw a chart.--Opark 77 08:03, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

"while the supposedly "normal" characters come to commit their own atrocities"
Please name a few examples. I don't believe I understand which normal characters you are speaking of. OzOz


 * Not all the characters were sociopaths, some were regular decent people like Beecher, for example. The other thing that could reaffirm the "normal" status of the immates, is that these were not killers 24/7; they washed their clothes, Washed their teeth and watched tv like regular joes most of the time.

Location
Where is the series shot?


 * I just deleted a (vandalism-like) comment from the article that claimed the series 1 DVD states that the series is shot in New York. Can anyone confirm? risk 21:37, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

DVD Releases
R1, R2, R4 DVD release date information for every season?

According to S1E4, the Northeast Blackout of 1965 struck Oz's state
(That blackout saved reabadow's life, as he was supposed to be put to death by the electric chair that day)

That might be one clue as to the state in which the series takes place. OzOz 13:43, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

pretty much 80% of the actors.
later go on to star in other HBO series.
 * 98% of statistics are made up on the spot. It's a fair observation and is already discussed in the article.--Opark 77 01:12, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Long lead
See WP:LEAD. The lead for the article is overlong. I have moved the broadcast information to its own section to cut down on the leads size.--Opark 77 01:12, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Structure and aiming for comprehensiveness
The structure of this article is fairly sound. There are lists that should be converted into prose where possible. Several sections or areas recommended for articles on TV shows are missing. For example:
 * Plot synopsis
 * DVD release
 * Critical response
 * Ratings
 * Awards
 * Impact on society
 * Production notes

Current TOC * 1 Cast and Characters o 1.1 Main cast * 2 Character Synopses o 2.1 Prison Groups o 2.2 Inmates o 2.3 Prison Staff o 2.4 Others * 3 Episodes and broadcast history * 4 Slang and Terms * 5 Trivia * 6 References in other media * 7 Books * 8 See also * 9 External links

Any thoughts on what sections need adding?--Opark 77 08:03, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

how about locations. like cellblocks

Characters section
Currently there are two sections for characters Cast and Characters and Character Synopses. I noticed that User:OzOz has planned to start a page named characters of Oz. I think this is a good idea for collecting entries on minor characters together. Perhaps instead of having the purely list format Cast and Characters content this could be moved as a foundation for the new article and the two sections merged together under the heading Cast and Characters.--Opark 77 08:03, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I believe it is a great idea. Please do so! :) OzOz 18:00, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Done.--Opark 77 19:38, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

muslims and homeboys african american?
how are they african american if the leader of the muslims is british and the leader of the homeboys is nigerian? that doesnt count as african american.


 * I thought the exact same thing, but it's BS political correctness. Really, the whole "African American" phrase is ridiculous. Black people come from places other than Africa, and not all people from Africa are black - would you consider Leon Schuster an African American? He's white and from South Africa. Rather than be politically correct, Wikipedia should be factually correct; blacks are blacks, Nigerians are Nigerians, Latinos are Latinos - not "Latino Americans." Also, Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje is British, not American.

A recurring theme
Did you notice how many people were killed just after seeing their family in this series? 80.178.32.41 21:51, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

its not a theme. just bad luck.

location
The supermax prison in ct is called Osborn I believe, that may be where the name came from. Is this worth mentioning in the article? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.49.136.98 (talk) 00:03, 10 December 2006 (UTC).

it was named after the warden during the attica riot. there is mention of attica during the show when the prisoners talk about royalty damages after their own prison riot.

Metaphor
I rewrote a little of the opening because there is no evidence that "The microcosm of Emerald City is a metaphor for the racial and economic struggles in the present-day United States." Rather, the prison shows a typical distribution of prison gangs and inmates. Now, you can say that the real-life distribution of prisoners echoes or mirrors the "racial and economic struggles", but there is no evidence that the show's creators were trying to create a metaphor, which is a very different thing.

i believe Tom Fontana is just trying to show a side of America that is usually ignored. I believe he said so in one of the many interview or commentaries

The table is horrible!
It is huge and very hard to use as it is. I believe it'd be better to drop it. TV chump 14:38, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

its not that bad. get over it

Original theme music
Who did the original 1997 theme music? When I Google for it all I get are the 2000 rap version and the 2001 instrumental. Grant | Talk 11:44, 25 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I suggest IMDb. --Soetermans 08:44, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks, found it though Googling. David/Dave Darlington & Stephen/Steven Rosen. Great music, but as it hasn't won any awards and isn't notable in any other way, I guess we don't need to mention it in the text. Grant | Talk 09:41, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Issues with intro
"Oz avoids any easy answers as to the origin of violence and criminality. Even the worst offenders are shown to have moments of humanity, while the supposedly "normal" characters come to commit their own atrocities. One of the perspectives shown by Oz is that the rehabilitation of the prisoners is impossible when the system is largely corrupt. The show also focused largely on the abuse of the prisoners' rights and on the large increase of the incarcerated population on the U.S of the late 1990s. Whenever possible, the show presented a major negative perspective over the death penalty."

This entire paragraph reads as an individual interpretation of the series, and not something official. If these views can't be sourced back to the writers / developers of the series, then it fails NPOV and should be removed. 74.242.99.7 11:16, 15 May 2007 (UTC)