Talk:Pace University/Archive 1

Endowment
The endowment figure is not right and should be checked.

Logo
It is not an old version, but is, in fact, the official university seal (that appears on many official university documents). Take a look at articles for other universities, they display the seal rather than their logo. Ld 17:53, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC) Actually, I'm a student of Pace, and that is a pre-2000 version of the pace university logo that is no longer utilized. I suggest you replace it with a current verson. http://appserv.pace.edu/execute/images/moduleLogo.gif AdamJacobMuller T@lk Tue Dec 28 20:37:38 GMT 2004

Dead link
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!


 * http://www.nationalactorstheatre.com
 * In Pace University on Mon Jul 17 14:43:52 2006, Socket Error: (-3, 'Temporary failure in name resolution')
 * In Pace University on Thu Jul 27 00:35:10 2006, Socket Error: (-3, 'Temporary failure in name resolution')

maru  (talk)  contribs 04:35, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Alumni
It appears that several of the notable "alumni" are NOT alumni of the university. Rachel Ray, Vincent Pastore, Richard Grasso did not graduate. They dropped out. Therefore this should be clearly noted. They ATTENDED the university. They ARE NOT alumni.

Fair use rationale for Image:DowHall.jpg
Image:DowHall.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Fair use rationale for Image:PaceSetters.jpg
Image:PaceSetters.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Fair use rationale for Image:PaceBrothers.jpg
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Fair use rationale for Image:Pace University Official Seal.jpg
Image:Pace University Official Seal.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Fair use rationale for Image:Preston Hall.png
Image:Preston Hall.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:49, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Removing List of alumni and students who lost their lives on Sept. 11, 2001
This list does not seem very encyclopedic and contributes little if anything to the article. It is sufficient to note that 4 students and 40 alumni lost their lives (and even this is of questionable importance if the individuals were not current students or staff at the time of the attacks). While it is important to honour the dead, Wikipedia is not the place to do so (see WP:NOT). If there are no objections, I will remove the list. Danelo 23:39, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I removed the list today. ~ Danelo 14:57, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 4 one external links on Pace University. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20060501044555/http://www.trumpnational.com:80/trumpwest/ to http://www.trumpnational.com/trumpwest
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20060830061709/http://sci2.org:80/NewsArticles/YonkersOpening.htm to http://www.sci2.org/NewsArticles/YonkersOpening.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20060407195621/http://www.grammyintheschools.com:80/gits_loader.html to http://www.grammyintheschools.com/gits_loader.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070208055223/http://appserv.pace.edu:80/execute/page.cfm?doc_id=1571 to http://appserv.pace.edu/execute/page.cfm?doc_id=1571

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 16:19, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 4 one external links on Pace University. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20060725114629/http://appserv.pace.edu/execute/gallery/Comm2005/IMG_aerial1.jpg to http://appserv.pace.edu/execute/gallery/Comm2005/IMG_aerial1.jpg
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070614040506/http://jeffreymunro.com/wtc/Album/slides/0036.jpg to http://jeffreymunro.com/wtc/Album/slides/0036.jpg
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20060320154629/https://www.tenantwise.com/reports/wtc_relocate.asp to http://www.tenantwise.com/reports/wtc_relocate.asp
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20060822082218/http://www.baseballhalloffame.org:80/about/board.htm to http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/about/board.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 20:41, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Pace University. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070506111106/http://www.gwu.edu:80/~gelarch/almanac/other.html to http://www.gwu.edu/~gelarch/almanac/other.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060816030815/http://www.lowermanhattan.info:80/construction/project_updates/fulton_street_transit_center_17608.aspx to http://www.lowermanhattan.info/construction/project_updates/fulton_street_transit_center_17608.aspx
 * Added tag to http://www.tv.com/yancy-butler/person/11524/biography.html

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External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 5 external links on Pace University. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.walshcollege.edu/pages/180.asp
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140521174509/http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/pace-university-new-york-194310/overall-rankings to http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/pace-university-new-york-194310/overall-rankings
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111202164441/http://pace.edu/dyson/dyson-news/dyson-digital-digest/spring-2011/marty-mcguire to https://www.pace.edu/dyson/dyson-news/dyson-digital-digest/spring-2011/marty-mcguire
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060618011441/http://www.downtownmeetings.com/History/History_of_DTCC.asp to http://www.downtownmeetings.com/History/History_of_DTCC.asp
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.tv.com/yancy-butler/person/11524/biography.html

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Improving citations
I have a conflict of interest as a staff member at Pace University. I will be working on improving the citations to this article, as requested by user: User:Spintendo My understanding is that fixing dead links and citation style fits into the category of the category of an uncontroversial edit. Wp:COIADVICE I am consulting with User:BC1278, a declared paid editor for this article, to offer me advice on citation formatting. I will not directly edit any part of the Pace University article except citations should anyone think I've made any mistakes, feel free to contact me or fix them. URNews (talk) 18:23, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Sounds reasonable to me. Another approach would be to copy the article into a sandbox, make the edits there, and then let us know about it here in Talk so someone without a conflict of interest can look at the edits and copy them into the article. ElKevbo (talk) 18:32, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

&

Hi, I edited some dead links in the sandbox for Pace University's page and I was hoping to get an independent editor to do a review. Would that be possible? I edited citations 12, 27,21, 16, 15, 37, 49, 52, & 53 My sandbox: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:URNews/sandbox

Thanks URNews (talk) 19:24, 25 March 2019 (UTC) URNews

Reply 31-MAR-2019
A diff showing the changes between the draft sandbox-version and the live article may be seen here.The citations are an improvement in certain areas. Others changes, like the insertion of URL's placed under website parameters are not improvements. (The only location for URL's is under the url parameter.) Additionally, the version of the article in the sandbox is filled with duplicate Wikilinks (as shown in the image to the right, with the duplicates boxed in red ). These ought to be omitted. Spintendo 06:17, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

URNews here, Hello Spintendo thank you for your feedback. I have started the process of omitting duplicate Wikilinks though since I am a novice at this, I will try my best to remove them without accidentally deleting all of them. I have started today. But I am having trouble figuring out how to edit the source of my sandbox deadlinks because when I go into edit the source, it only has one line of code. I specifically updated the deadlinks in the sandbox for citations at the very bottom for citations 12, 15, 16, 21 27, 37, 49, 52, and 53. Any guidance on why I can't see code? It seemed fairly straightforward with the duplicate wikilinks. Best, Barin aka URNews — Preceding unsigned comment added by URNews (talk • contribs) 19:48, 6 June 2019 (UTC)

Request Edit
Hi, I am an experienced Wikipedia editor but I have a WP:COI as a paid consultant to Pace University. I am therefore seeking an independent review to the following proposed changes to this article. I remain available to respond to any requests. Should the requested placement of the proposed changes in the article be unclear, I have created a sandbox of a draft of the article with all proposed edits at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BC1278/sandbox/Pace_University

1. Lead

Delete current Lead.

Replace with:

Pace University is a private university with campuses in New York City and Westchester County, New York. It was established in 1906 by the brothers Homer St. Clair Pace and Charles A. Pace as a business school. Pace enrolls about 13,000 students in bachelor’s, master’s and doctoral programs. It offers about 100 majors at its six schools. The university also offers an MFA in Acting through The Actors Studio Drama School and is home to the Inside the Actors Studio television show.

Its main schools are the College of Health Professions; the Dyson College of Arts and Sciences; the Elisabeth Haub School of Law; the Lubin School of Business, the School of Education, and Seidenberg School of Computer Science and Information Systems. The school runs a women's justice center in Yonkers, a business incubator and is affiliated with the public school Pace High School.

Pace originally operated out of the New York Tribune Building in New York City, and spread as the Pace Institute, operating in several major U.S. cities. In the 1920s, the school divested facilities outside New York, maintaining its Lower Manhattan location. It purchased its first permanent home in Manhattan in 1951, and opened its first Westchester campus in 1963. Pace opened its largest building, 1 Pace Plaza, in 1969. Four years later, it became a university.

The school's motto is Opportunitas, meaning "opportunity" and reflects the university's emphasis on training students for professions. A 2017 study ranked Pace first in the nation among four-year private schools for upward economic mobility.

Why? I have reviewed several of the Featured Articles in the category Education about universities. WP:Featured Articles. These articles can serve as examples for writing articles on similar subject matter. WP: FA This newly proposed lead better reflects the FA article models for universities because it includes an overview of the contemporary school, with some of its history. The current version's lead is weighted more heavily toward history. The new version's lead is weighted toward the present-day school. All detailed history, none of which is controversial, is still available in the immediately following section. Featured Articles about universities with a similar approach include: Michigan State University, University of California, Riverside, Duke University and Texas Tech University.

Note: as is the case in all the Featured Articles I looked at about universities, the university website is sometimes used as a source for non-controversial facts, even though it is a WP: PSTS. An example is the full names of the six schools the university has or the existence of a "Pace High School." Primary sources can be used with care only for "straightforward, descriptive statements of facts", but not for anything that requires interpretation of the facts. This application of the primary source policy seems more commonly applied in the FAs about universities, perhaps because the level of detail deemed to be of encyclopedic value for these types of articles is sometimes unavailable in secondary sources.

2. History

Insert:

The former president of Oberlin College, Marvin Krislov, was appointed president of Pace University in February 2017.

3. Other Properties

Insert:

International Disarmament Institute

The International Disarmament Institute is a center for teaching and studying worldwide disarmament, arms control and non-proliferation. Matthew Bolton, the director of the Institute, worked on The International Campaign to Abolish Nuclear Weapons, which won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2017.

Why? This is a noteworthy program, evidenced by the director being part of the Nobel Peace Prize winning campaign. I have used one primary source just to establish a basic description of the program, which contains only basic facts, not analysis, as per WP: PSTS.

4. Campuses

New York City

Insert at end:

In January 2019, Pace completed a $45 million renovation of One Pace Plaza and the adjoining 41 Park Row.

5. Notable Alumni

Insert:


 * Asher Levine, fashion designer


 * Andrea Stewart-Cousins, New York State Senate Majority leader.

Why? Both have Wikipedia articles establishing they are notable

Many thanks for your consideration. BC1278
 * I am personally unable to fulfill your request, but I would recommend it to others, you've made some good improvements. Some comments however: one thing however is the addition of the mobility statistic. I don't think it belongs so high up in the article's lede; maybe consider moving it to after the 100 majors, which is more closely linked also to the number of students. Those two statistics should go together, while the 2017 study could be mentioned directly after. If there was a more natural place to move it further down in the lead, that would be ideal. The first mention of Pace's name should also be bolded (like in the current version), per MOS:BOLDLEAD. Lastly, in instances like "more than 100 majors", consider using "about" or "approximately" instead of "more than" or "over". The latter two terms are more of PR-speak that we like to avoid here. Hope this helps. ɱ  (talk) 20:35, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I made those recommended changes up top! BC1278 (talk) 20:47, 8 March 2019 (UTC)BC1278

"Its main schools are the College of Health Professions; the Dyson College of Arts and Sciences; the Elisabeth Haub School of Law; the Lubin School of Business, the School of Education, and Seidenberg School of Computer Science and Information Systems. The university also offers an MFA in Acting through The Actors Studio Drama School..." The phrase also offers suggests that the sentence just immediately prior to it was describing offerings, when that sentence actually was describing only the names of schools. The only text describing majors before this instance exists in the paragraph before the one saying "also offers". If these two mentionings of offerings are to be mentioned in close quarters enough to warrant the use of also, they ought to be in the same paragraph.  Spintendo   03:17, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
 * User: Spintendo, I have taken your advice and moved the mention of the MFA program to directly after the majors in proposed paragraph one. BC1278 (talk) 15:37, 9 March 2019 (UTC)BC1278
 * The article has an unclear citation style used. This makes the reviewing of references difficult. Currently, this unclear style has resulted in checklinks showing more than 15 references as dead URL's (when archived versions may have been used). The article's citation style should be settled first in order to ensure that the references used have current URL's that are properly archived. This should be done before the newer requested claims are added, to additionally ensure that the styles used by the article and the ones used by the newer requested claims are all the same. Regards, Spintendo  16:55, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Just because you disagree with it doesn't mean you should decline it, disallowing anyone from making these requested changes? Do you really expect BD1278 to go in and fix all of the references before proceeding? That's a high bar for a COI editor and not really what they're trying to do here. You're using a guideline that aims to ensure citation consistency within an article as a barrier to making changes/improvements to an article... There's nothing in CITEVAR that says edits can't be made while all of the references are unstandardized, just that future references should match the current ones. ɱ  (talk) 17:57, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
 * If you see a problem, just fix it. Fix it yourself instead of just talking about it. If you find dead links and find them as an issue, it's on you to fix them, don't require others to do that. That's not an issue for making these updates/improvements here. ɱ  (talk) 18:02, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

The requested edits look good to me so I've implemented them with one small exception: The final paragraph in the requested edit to the lede comes across as unnecessarily promotional to me. Thanks for working on this and making the request here in Talk to avoid COI issues! ElKevbo (talk) 03:06, 13 March 2019 (UTC)
 * "future references should match the current ones" This is the key point here: The COI editor was requesting that information be added which would muddy the citation style waters so to speak, as the article has no clear style used. Providing the references in only one format meant that anything added to the article would have only served to decrease the clarity of the article's citation style, not to improve it. If they had been willing to do the work of improving the article's citation style by changing all the references (which they appeared to demonstrate they were) I would have been equally willing to do the work of implementing all those changes, as that work would have been worthwhile, taking steps towards the article's improvement, and not away from it. As far as just fix it, these were not issues I discovered on my own volition — they came about as the result of an edit request initiated by another — a request which stated "I remain available to respond to any requests".  Spintendo  01:32, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
 * User: Spintendo, I spoke to Pace University, and they say they will replace the dead links with current references, and work on citation formats, in the coming weeks. They prefer to take this on themselves, rather than have me do it, but I will check back from time to time to review their progress. I've reminded them under WP: COI that they cannot make any direct changes to the article except for fixing citations.BC1278 (talk) 15:23, 14 March 2019 (UTC)BC1278