Talk:Pacific Christian on the Hill

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Discussion/Talk page of Pacific Christian on the Hill

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Major addition
An anonymous editor added a large portion of text with a lot of new information. This is most certainly welcome! However, the text does not show NPOV as required by Wikipedia guidelines. It would be great to add the text, but modified to keep NPOV. Also some citations are needed in order to show that the text is verifiable. I have preserved the anonymous editor's text below. If he/she or someone else would like to discuss this text, then please do so here. RelHistBuff 13:40, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * As the Hermon area grew following the departure of the college, PCH became less known within the community. This affected enrollment and financial support. A junior high (middle school, grades 7-8) was added in 1975, but enrollment never again approached the high school's healthiest peak of more than 150 students.


 * In the 1990s, the administration intentionally withdrew the school from any active participation with the local community, and discontinued even indirect marketing to attract new students. As a result, enrollment rapidly declined. In 2003, the board approved borrowing large sums of money to improve the appearance of the school despite declining enrollment and decreased visibility, with no apparent means of paying back the debt. As a result, the school was unable to pay for salaries and even basic upkeep, in addition to servicing the new debt. Realizing too late this common-sense failure in fiscal planning, the board of directors suddenly closed the campus in 2004 on the eve of a centennial celebration, with no advance warning to students or parents, and made closed-door arrangements to sell the property to the highest bidder for more than $1 million per acre, nearly twice its current value for anything other than high-density housing. The move to abandon the area came just weeks after promising community members they would not market the campus for housing development.


 * An offer from a local church to absorb all debt, effectively rescuing the school and allowing its continued operation, and offers to merge from other like schools were rebuffed in the process, because these continuation options would not have assured the school's board -- which included no local community members -- control of the profits from the sale of the land or provide continued income or retirement funds for the principal who had been responsible for its failure.

Response from anonymous editor
The original text discussing the history of, and changes in the community in which this institution is/was based are not factual, or based on any known citation, however, they were left in place - and have now been returned. Why?

The discussion in the original text of why the school was "forced" to close is unverifiable apologetics for inept, or intentionally corrupt management of this not-for-profit. To return that text is to condone a cover-up.

The only "verifiable" aspect of what has been returned to the text is that the school is now closed. The "reasons" given for that one fact only serve the purpose of those who were unable to see beyond their own limited skill sets.

Where does the "buck" stop? The original text would have you believe "competition" from another small school -- based nearly one hour's drive away (in Los Angeles traffic) at the time of the school's decline -- was a major cause, and that in a city of 4 million people, with one of the poorest public school systems in the country, there were only a few dozen student candidates for these two schools to "compete" over across 25-30 miles of densely populated urban/suburban terrain.

Wikipedia should not be used as a smokescreen for poor or corrupt management.


 * I ask for cooler heads. The original page was put up based on the two references as shown. There was no intention of putting up a smokescreen. The original text was not put by management. If you read the first discussion message at the top of this page, I do believe the text by the anonymous editor should be placed in. However, the text should follow Wikipedia guidelines of Neutral point of view (NPOV) and Verifiability. NPOV means that the article should be encyclopedic showing no preference of views. Verifiable simply means that if you have a source (a web page, newspaper article, minutes of meetings, then please put them in the reference. Perhaps you could restate the same text with these principles in mind. I will also try to come up with alternative wording. RelHistBuff 19:37, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

=
==== Based on your own, criteria, then - neutral and verifiable - remove the following, which are neither, or cite reliable references:

>> As the Hermon area evolved and the *demographics changed, PCH reached out to enroll students from other towns in the northeastern suburbs of Los Angeles.

>> A rival Christian school in the nearby town of Pasadena, Maranatha High School, provided healthy competition for the enrollment of students as they reached high school age. Coincidentally, the two schools were founded in the same year, 1965.

Maranatha did not move to Pasadena until approx. 2002, at which time, Pacific's fate was certainly already sealed.

>> The demographics continued to evolve

(NOTE: there has been NO significant change in *demographics in this area in nearly 30 years, based on U.S. Census and city planning data)

>> ... as more private schools competed for students in the suburbs of Los Angeles

Name them - there are actually less...

>> PCH became recommitted to serving students in the local area.

Untrue...

>> However, local support for a private secondary school had fallen...

Untrue...

>> Discussions are underway (as of 2006) within the Hermon community on the future of the school and its properties.

Untrue... your link to a meeting in 2004 was the last instance.

None of these are factual, nor has any verification been provided


 * Would you please cool down? Wikipedia guidelines for resolving disputes say to stay respectful. It also says that one should improve on an edit and I did say that I was going to do that. I have put a proposed text incorporating some language changes to your text. There are clearly two points-of-view and both are presented. If we get more contributors, then all the better. RelHistBuff 21:12, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

>>"Cool Down" is not an answer to a request for verification of the 6-8 factual errors pointed out above, which are still incorporated, it is a dodge. Your citations for "discussions are underway" shows nothing of the kind. The school has been silent and avoided all community contact for two years.

You also continue to cite, as fact, the presence of another "rival" school that was, for the first 37 years both school existed, some 20 miles away -- their circles of recruitment barely intersected.

You also cite an increase in other private school "options" in nearby suburbs. Two of the closest private high schools at the time Pacific was transitioning (Chandler, in Pasadena, and Rio Hondo Prep, near Maranatha), closed before Pacific. There are now less private high school options for a geographic area that has increased in population by more than 20 percent.

These are not "perpectives" nor are the supposed "demographic" changes to surrounding communities. These are apologetics for poor management and siege mentality.


 * You are obviously angry. Here on this side, I am not. The fact is that the two Christian schools were rivals for many years. They were not in the same sports league nor in the same geographical area, but it is a fact that the two schools competed for the same pool of students. That's why I put that text in the "First twenty years" section. As for other private schools options, this was mentioned by a parent and former student in the minutes of the Hermon meeting which is why I put it in. RelHistBuff 21:53, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

>> ". . .it is a fact that the two schools competed for the same pool of students"


 * Maranatha and Pacific were in the same sports league when I attended PC 1976 to 1982. Maranatha was (and/or is) similar in eclesiastical mind set and drew from the same kinds of feed Christian elementary and middle schools, such as Westminster Academy in nearby Eagle Rock (which was formerly in Glendale). Rio Hondo, Flintridge Prep, Pasadena Christian, and Village Christian were also rivals on the field and for students. I would assume that as Ribet Academy became more popular in the last decade, they were an influence, too. WALTR

>> How is it even remotely possible that two schools "not in the same geographic area" --situated 15-20 miles apart for three decades, in a metro area where average freeway travel speeds at rush hour peak at 20 mph, "compete for the same pool of students"?

That's not anger, that's called "rational reasoning."


 * Which shows your lack of understanding about what kinds of things about PC drew students. Maranatha and Pacific had the same evangelical Christian educational emphasis that certain parents were looking for. There were others, also, as I pointed out. Average rush hour speeds have not always be 20 mph (are they really even now?). I lived in Glendale and got to school in 15 minutes with no problem. WALTR

>> the original editor continues to white-wash negligent, perhaps even unethical management and unwillingness to observe the rules under which all other non-profits are subject, including disclosure.

So be it. Nothing can be learned here then. "Believers" will continue to fall for the con-job that killed the college, and now the high school.


 * The college was not killed; it merged with another college and still exists as Azusa Pacific University. The con-job (I always felt) was trying to continue the "history" of the college through the High School and eventually Jr High and then Elementary grades. It was a different school with different teachers and a different focus. Many of the buildings and grounds were even different. As for a "con-job" that killed PC, that is your opinion. I've known Dr Reisen since I was 5 years old and I respect him immensely. I can believe he might have made some mistakes, I can believe that he followed the board into mistakes, (who never made a mistake?) but I cannot believe he would have done anything majorly dishonest. If you have allegations of wrong doing against anyone, take it to the police, the FBI, or the IRS. Don't air your petty grievances by slandering people from behind the anonymity screen of Wikipedia. WALTR

Dead link
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!


 * http://www.pconthehill.org/school/school.htm|author=Pacific
 * In Pacific Christian on the Hill on Mon Jul 17 14:49:08 2006, 404 Not Found
 * In Pacific Christian on the Hill on Thu Jul 27 00:35:42 2006, 404 Not Found

maru  (talk)  contribs 04:35, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Pacific Christian Was a Successor to Los Angeles Pacific HS
I started at the school in 1964 when it was known as Los Angeles Pacific High School, and was next to the campus of LA Pacific College. We used their old gym. The college merged with Azusa College to form Azusa Pacific College, and much of the land was sold. Some of the buildings were moved down Monterey Rd to the Free Methodist Church. It was very definitely ONLY a name change in so far as the staff and program were concerned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.49.67.56 (talk) 04:01, 9 March 2011 (UTC)