Talk:Paco de Lucía

Untitled
"It is said that he is able to play 16th note triplets at 180 bpm (beats per minute)." This needs attribution, and is probably not accurate. 16th notes at 180 bpm is not all that fast. Paco and Al Di Meola both play 32nd notes at 110 bpm fluidly on Mediterranean Sundance/Rio Ancho from Friday Night in San Francisco. This is the equivalent of 16th notes at 220 bpm.


 * Please note that it says "16th note triplets", not "16th notes". 16th note triplets at 180 bpm means 18 notes per second - while 16th notes at 220 bpm is "only " about 14.67 notes per second. J. M. 14:04, 21 July 2006 (UTC)


 * (So 16th note triplets at 180 bpm would be the equivalent - in terms of speed - of 16th notes at 270 bpm or 32nd notes at 135 bpm, which is also 18 notes per second.) J. M. 14:15, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Cleaned up some of the comma and semicolon errors here. Jasonguit 04:47, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Paco plays Manuel de Falla
It is said in the documentation accompanying the much earlier classical "crossover" album ("Paco De Lucia - Interpreta A Manuel De Falla"), that Paco had to "painstakingly" read musical notation... granted, it's not easy for him, but he has done it long before the 1991 Concierto de Aranjuez album. Also, he is apparently skilled in "cifra" (Flamenco tablature) reading/writing, so saying that he's not adept with classical musical notation reflects a cultural bias... Paco's far from illiterate.

Cite tags
This article has a lot of weasel words and other unsourced statements. It would be great if someone could clean this up and offer a more neutral point of view about this fantastic artist. MarkBuckles (talk) 08:18, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

One of the greatest flamenco guitarists of all time
On digitaldreamdoor.com, click Music Lists, then click Greatest Specialty Guitarists. Lucia is #2 on greatest flamenco guitarists. I don't know how to link this because the web address for the page is digitaldreamdoor.com, meaning it does not change when you click on a link. However, I hope this can be used as a source.
 * Digitaldreamdoor is a personal webpage and not a very good citation for Wikipedia. Proper citations should come from professional publications. see WP:CITE or WP:V. Anger22 02:09, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

deleted text
Have deleted the following weasel wording from the introductory para.:

Many think that de Lucia fluently goes into these territories and plays like no other, whereas some purists of these other genres will state that he is just making a venture and is still a flamenco player at heart, lacking the pure jazz style.

Will try to continue with a general clean-up of this article. --Technopat 10:34, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Shame on you!
Intead of deleting, deleting, and just deleting, what this encyclopedia needs is adding, adding, ADDING valuable, informative, and factual material. The article sucks, not for what you and others may think is surplus information, but due to missing information, about Señor Francisco Sánchez's formative years, about his many contributions to the Flamenco genre, including the introduction of South American percussion, about the modern way of setting up Flamenco ensemble, etc. To write about those subjects needs expertise and considerable work, and hence has much more merit, than your beloved deleting. --AVM (talk) 22:45, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

No mention of Elegant Gypsy?
No mention of his wonderful work in Mediteranian Sundance on Al DiMeola's Elegant Gypsy album? This is where I (and I'm sure many others) first heard of Paco... 24.18.201.182 (talk) 16:04, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Roma not gypsy
I was taught in school that the term gypsy borders upon being a racial slur and that the preferred nomenclature is Roma / Romani. Maybe we should change this no? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vvibbert (talk • contribs) 21:38, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I believe it is acceptable to use it here. When talking about Roma in Spain they call themselves Gitanos which translates into Gypsy. I hope this helps. --Gibmetal 77 talk 00:22, 12 March 2008 (UTC)


 * No, not really; check the article here on Romani people for a discussion of this. +ILike2BeAnonymous (talk) 00:27, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * If you look at the more relevant article on Roma in Spain, you can see the term is widely acceptable. --Gibmetal 77 talk 01:07, 12 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Actually, that article shows no such thing: it merely uses the term loosely (and sloppily), without a proper explanation of its origin, such as is found in the Romani people article. It is offensive, though still widely used, and shouldn't be used in an encyclopedia article in preference to the more appropriate term (Roma or Romani). +ILike2BeAnonymous (talk) 01:49, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * If you really believe it is offensive, I suggest you go ahead and change it from the hundreds of other articles which also use the term Gitano/Gypsie... I still assure you that if someone is proud of calling himself a Gitano it cannot be an offensive term to use in this context, but I see you'd rather revert than discussing things properly to arrive at a conclusion. --Gibmetal 77 talk 08:37, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Gibmetal77 you're way out of line and your argument doesn't quite work. Minority groups routinely adapt offensive slurs for use by themselves as a source of strength and pride. Homosexuals at times use the word 'fag' and 'queer' to refer to themselves. Some Americans of African decent use the term 'nigger' in the same way. Just as it would be offensive for an encyclopedia to use the words 'fag' or 'nigger' it must also be true then that if 'Gypsy' is considered offensive by a large number of Roma and the term 'Roma' and 'Romani' have no such negative connotations, using 'Roma' or 'Romani' is the correct decision here. Leaving the term 'Gypsy' just because it has been used frequently would be a mistake of laziness. Unlike other racial slurs, the use of 'Gypsy' is not being used out of hate or an intention to demean, but out of simple ignorance of the issues at hand. Vvibbert (talk) 02:52, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Incorrect information: Paco de Lucía has not gypsy or roma ancestry. I had to correct the text. He is well known for being a "payo" guitarist admired by gypsy fans. Provide a reference or credible source that Paco de Lucía is of roma descent, before give erroneus information to the people that read wikipedia.


 * Well, a reference to that effect (that he's not of Roma descent) would be nice, rather than just your suggestion for using a Web search, which proves nothing. Do you have any valid sources for that? +ILike2BeAnonymous (talk) 04:02, 19 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not even going to look at any of those links; I have no idea what they are. If you can't be bothered to do anything more than just dump some Google search results here, then I guess you're not serious. How about giving us a link to a credible source, along with a description of what that source is? +ILike2BeAnonymous (talk) 18:12, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

In Andalusia the word in use is Gitanos (gypsies), so stop inventing B.S.- Otherwise, go ahead and try to use that word, Roma, when talking to the locals. They'll think you're speaking about the capital of Italy. --AVM (talk) 22:52, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Pronunciation of his name
Will anyone add transcription of his name? Just I'm not sure how it is pronounced, whether it sounds like Paco de LuSia or Paco de LuCHya. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.30.232.76 (talk) 08:53, 30 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Your first guess is close enough, though in Peninsular Spanish pronunciation the 'c' in Lucía is closer to a 'z' than to an 's', except (Good gracious!) in Andalusia, the region where Paco was born and raised. My advice: learn some Spanish language. You'll find it interesting. --AVM (talk) 23:01, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Joaquín Rodrigo misquoted
Regarding the "Concierto de Aranjuez", the article claims "Joaquín Rodrigo declared that no one had ever played his composition in such a brilliant manner". This is an exaggeration, in the referred source Rodrigo says nothing of the sort, he just defines De Lucías's interpretation as "beautiful, exotic and inspired". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.32.71.61 (talk) 12:14, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Expert review
I would suggest that the ideal source to complete this page would be to request an analysis from Paco Pena —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.252.12.175 (talk) 23:10, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

External links is not where unused sources belong!
The External links section is not for an excess source parking lot. They belong here on the talk page. Caution: I haven't checked them out to see if they are acceptable. Please put sources here in the future. Also, we do not use photo galleries, per WP:IG and "See Also" links also go here. Thank you. --Leahtwosaints (talk) 12:18, 17 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Interview with Paco de Lucia for Slovak music magazine Novy Popular 2010 (In English)
 * Interview with Paco de Lucía from DVD "Paco de Lucía - Light and Shade: A Portrait" (1994)
 * Interview with Paco de Lucía from DVD "Paco de Lucía - Francisco Sanchez" (2003)
 * Gamboa, Manuel José and Nuñez, Faustino. (2003). Paco de Lucía. Madrid: Universal Music Spain.
 * "Flamenco Guitar Innovation and the Circumscription of Tradition" Ph.D. Dissertation (Ph.D.) University of California, Santa Barbara (Banzi, Julia 2007)
 * Paco de Lucía biography, discography and related products
 * Paco de Lucía biography, discography and related products
 * Paco de Lucía biography and discography at flamenco-world.com
 * [//worldcat.org/identities/np-delucia,%20paco Works by or about Paco de Lucía] in libraries (WorldCat catalog)

Pathetic Article
Apparently, the only criterion for citing a source in a wikipedia article is that it previously was published. Correctness or the source's reputation is not particularly important. I can think of no reason for citing the opinion of Dorien Ross as to Paco de Lucia's status otherwise: she is, after all, only a clinical psychologist, and certainly not a musical expert of any kind. Except possibly, of course, it the author's mind. So, we have a musical illiterate quoting a musical illiterate on a musical point. How grand. I think I may contribute an article on advanced quantum mechanical angst in the poetry of John Keats. Whaddya think?

adding tunisia concert
Hi everyone,

I don't know how to add an information so please can someone add it:

at the end of the article it is said that paco de lucia is going to turkey and morocco.

Well he's also attending the International Festival of Carthage, Tunisia. He will give a concert on the 31 july 2013.

Here are some sources (in french):

http://tunisie14.tn/article/detail/le-concert-envivo-de-paco-de-lucia-au-festival-international-de-carthage

http://www.tunisky.com/paco-de-lucia-au-festival-de-carthage-le-31-juillet/

http://www.mille-et-une-tunisie.com/arts-a-culture/festivals-a-foires/4103-paco-de-lucia-et-jean-michel-jarre-au-festival-de-carthage.html

http://www.marhba.com/evenements/2853-le-festival-de-carthage-2013-avec-deux-grands-noms-paco-de-lucia-et-jean-michel-jarre

Thanks for the great work!

Jalloulo (talk) 11:59, 11 June 2013 (UTC)jalloulo

Date of death
So far, we don't seem to have confirmation of the date of death - the blog (improperly) used as a citation is dated Feb 26th, and says he died 'last night', which is ambiguous. The BBC, which I have cited, doesn't give a date. . AndyTheGrump (talk) 13:11, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

I see that Reuters reports "died on Wednesday", which would make the 26th correct. It might be worthwhile to check this against later sources, as they become available though - early reports often seem to get death dates wrong. AndyTheGrump (talk) 13:18, 26 February 2014 (UTC)


 * CNN states died late Tuesday. WWGB (talk) 13:25, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah, they say "Tuesday, Mexico time". Would that be Wednesday, European time, so Reuters and others may have misunderstood? Iselilja (talk) 13:28, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
 * The Guardian now has an obituary which says 25th. . AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:47, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
 * The Reuters report linked above has now been amended to say "died suddenly of a heart attack on Tuesday evening in Mexico". On the other hand, the NYT says "died on Wednesday". AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:55, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

De Lucía
De Lucía is not his surname, so we cannot use it as such: "De Lucía is, De Lucía was, De Lucía played" etc. All these seem to be wrongly used. --Why should I have a User Name? (talk) 10:13, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

It would be more legitimate than using Paco or his real surname Sánchez. De Lucía is effectively his surname. Gary Glitter you'd say Glitter went to Vietnam wouldn't you?♦ Dr. Blofeld  10:59, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I would always say Paco de Lucía but I know Wikipedia is not about one′s personal preferences. --Why should I have a User Name? (talk) 11:06, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
 * (e/c) It had occurred to me as well - but I think that both Gary Glitter and Paco de Lucia ("de Lucia" deriving from his mother's name) are constructed as names with a forename and surname.  They both contrast, for example, with Manitas de Plata ("Little hands of silver"), which has a specific meaning rather than being forename and surname - it would be inappropriate to refer to him as "de Plata".  Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:10, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
 * What do you suggest then? I refer to him as Paco (or the maestro), but according to MOS guidelines we shouldn't use the first name. It would also be inappropriate to keep using his full name or his original surname which few would recognize.♦ Dr. Blofeld  12:21, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
 * This says "Paco", and this uses "Paco de Lucia" (or "he"). Both this and this say "de Lucia" - which is probably what we should do.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:27, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 March 2014
The mother of Paco de Lucía was born in Castro Marim, a locality south east of Portugal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castro_Marim_Municipality

Paco recorded an album called Castro Marín in homage to his mother's town.

85.139.86.93 (talk) 15:22, 3 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. -- El Hef  ( Meep? ) 16:15, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
 * There is a reference here. Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:22, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Topics to be enhanced!


I am exposing a metric for the importance of albums, styles and partners. The massive visitation of Paco de Lucía's article have strong correlated audience in another articles. The traffic statistics behaviour of the 2014-02-26 event &mdash; at the Paco's dead day, Paco's page jumps from average ~300/day to ~79000 (260x) &mdash; can be used as a "metric" of the importance (in the general point of view of the audience):


 * Camarón de la Isla's page scored ~100/day average pageviews, jumps to 2900 (29x).
 * Tomatito's page scored ~50/day average pageviews, jumps to 730 (15x).
 * Al Di Meola's page scored ~300/day average pageviews, jumps to 3600 (12x).
 * John McLaughlin's page scored ~500/day average pageviews, jumps to 3250 (7x).
 * Larry Coryell's page scored ~100/day average pageviews, jumps to 480 (5x).
 * Javier Limón's page scored ~25/day average pageviews, jumps to 120 (5x).
 * Others with lower average audience:
 * Paco de Lucía Sextet's page scored ~15/day average pageviews, jumps to 322 (21x).
 * Pepe de Lucía's page scored ~10/day average pageviews, jumps to 880 (88x).
 * Ramón de Algeciras's page scored ~10/day average pageviews, jumps to 650 (65x).

Comparing with citations of artits names at the article's text (at same date): Camarón de la Isla (8 citations, under-cited cmp Coryell); Tomatito (0 citations, under-cited); Al Di Meola (12 citations); John McLaughlin (10 citations, over-cited cmp Meola);  Larry Coryell (6 citations); Javier Limón (1 citations, under-cited cmp Coryell); Paco de Lucía Sextet (4 citations, under-cited); Pepe de Lucía (4); Ramón de Algeciras (1, under-cited).

Musics:
 * Entre dos aguas: ~20/day average, jumps to ~1900 (95x).
 * Concierto de Aranjuez: ~300/day average, jumps to ~1300 (4x).
 * Others with lower average audience:
 * Rio Ancho: ~10/day average, jumps to ~580 (58x).

Albuns:
 * El mundo del flamenco: ~8/day average, jumps to ~308 (38x).
 * Por Descubrir: ~6/day average, jumps to ~190 (32x).
 * Integral: ~8/day average, jumps to ~245 (31x).

Styles:
 * New Flamenco: ~70/day average, jumps to ~450 (6x).
 * Flamenco: ~1000/day average, jumps to ~1500 (2x).

Some cited bands and artists like Pata Negra, Julio_Iglesias or Erick Clapton have no correlation (0x); Chick Corea low/diffused correlation (~2x).


 * Conclusion: Despite the low visitation in some articles, where the error is greater, as well as the pages with more irregular events, the correlation was significative. (another event-correlations can be found reinforcing this one). The article must enhance some of the "strong correlated subjects", as New Flamenco, Al Di Meola, Camarón de la Isla, or Entre dos aguas; than "weakly correlated subjects".

--Krauss (talk) 21:37, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Proper spelling for the artist's name
I speak both Spanish and Portuguese and I'm familiar with naming standards for the Iberian peninsula. What is the point of using "Francisco Gustavo Sánchez Gomes"? It just sounds like a weird hybridization. The Spanish version of the article uses "Francisco Gustavo Sánchez Gómez". Was the artist actually born under the name "Francisco Gustavo Sánchez Gomes" or "Francisco Gustavo Sánchez Gómez"? He was born in Andalucía so I assume they used the second rather than the first.

ICE77 (talk) 08:59, 4 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Would we need evidence from his birth certificate? Which version, if any, did he typically use himself? Martinevans123 (talk) 11:51, 4 March 2014 (UTC)


 * I speak Spanish as well and I know Gomes is the Portuguese spelling of the name Gómez. There is nothing weird since Paco and Pepe's mother was Portuguese. If she changed the spelling of her surname to the Spanish equivalent (i.e. Gómez), that would be something else, however there is no indication of that. In Spanish language naming customs, a person has two surnames -- paternal and maternal. If one of the names isn't Spanish that doesn't mean it automatically gets transcribed into Castilian. Look at singer/actor Bertín Osborne (né Norberto Juan Ortiz Osborne); obviously his maternal surname is not Spanish, but that doesn't render it as unacceptable. Quis separabit?  14:00, 4 March 2014 (UTC)


 * All sounds perfectly correct, but I'd suggest we need a WP:RS source if at all possible. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:10, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

Yes, his birth certificate was certainly showing what his actual name was (Sánchez Gómez or Sánchez Gomes). Either way, the naming in the English and the Spanish versions of this article do not match.

ICE77 (talk) 02:27, 8 March 2014 (UTC)


 * es.wiki: Francisco Sánchez Gómez
 * pt.wiki: Francisco Sánchez Gomes
 * ca.wiki: Francisco Sánchez Gómez
 * No mention of the Gustavo in any of these? So exactly what was his birth certificate certainly showing? Martinevans123 (talk) 08:44, 8 March 2014 (UTC)

Paco de Lucías official website says "Francisco Sánchez Gómez, Alias Paco de Lucía". In decades and centuries past, specially before computers, people were not so picky about spelling and names were often adapted or "translated". It seems modst likely that his birth was registered as "Sánchez Gómez" even though his mother's surname was "Gomes". GS3 (talk) 20:29, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Guitarist vs composer
I see the page's new OWNer User:Rms125a@hotmail.com thinks that Paco was first and foremost a composer which is ridiculous. He was and always will be a flamenco guitarist who happened to compose some of his own songs. ♦ Dr. Blofeld  15:39, 31 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Actually I don't think anything about Paco de Lucía's music. He happens to be on my watchlist fot another reason, hence I noticed your unsourced edits. Sorry if I ruffled your feathers that much, Let it go, dude. Quis separabit?  15:43, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

He's attracted a lot of new attention since his death like a lot of people do. I can't understand the thinking behind placing composer first. It's sort of like saying Jimi Hendrix was an American composer, producer and guitarist.♦ Dr. Blofeld  15:45, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Family?
The English version shows just one marriage and 3 children. The Spanish has 2 marriages, 5 children in total. Seems that the English version is outdated. 2.139.197.17 (talk) 10:05, 21 December 2016 (UTC)ElaHuguet


 * Yes. According to Paco de Lucía En Vivo by Juan José Téllez (p. 255), Paco separated from his first wife Casilda Varela after about 20 years, and in 2000 had a daughter (Antonia) with one Gabriela Canseco.  I remember reading that he later married Gabriela.  Here's a reference that refers to her as his widow.


 * http://www.guitarrasmorales.guitars/la-guitarra-vuela/gabriela-paco-de-lucia-la-maestro/


 * Here's another that refers to Gabriela as his second wife:


 * http://www.elmundo.es/loc/2014/03/01/53110cdcca4741b50a8b4578.html


 * Paul Magnussen (talk) 18:24, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Paco de Lucía. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131029205058/http://www.flamenco-world.com/noticias/tana.htm to http://www.flamenco-world.com/noticias/tana.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 06:25, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Paco de Lucía. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140226230445/http://www.el-nacional.com/escenas/Paco-Lucia-propio-hospital-murio_0_362963760.html to http://www.el-nacional.com/escenas/Paco-Lucia-propio-hospital-murio_0_362963760.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 15:33, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

Naming conventions
In nearly 40 years as flamenco journalist, I have seldom, if ever, seen Paco de Lucía referred to as "De Lucía" outside of Wikipedia; he is simply "Lucía", as as far as I'm aware this is the normal convention. Certainly in libraries (I've just looked), he is "Lucía, Paco de", not "De Lucía, Paco".

I therefore move that the article be modified accordingly — unless, of course, the Wikipedia standard is different.

Paul Magnussen (talk) 19:30, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

Clarification on "Impetu" by Mario Escudero
Reference is made to the 1st paragraph of the "1970s" Section and the 2nd paragraph of the "1960s" Section of the article, both of which make reference to one of my father´s works, "Impetu".

After almost 50 years since Paco de Lucia´s original LP "El Mundo del Flamenco" was issued in 1971, I am pleased to see that this article captures the fact that the piece included in this record titled "El Impetu" is, in fact, "Impetu" (without the article "El") composed by Mario Escudero, and which Paco de Lucia first recorded in 1967 in his album "La Fabulosa Guitarra de Paco de Lucia" (and which correctly indicated both the name and composer of this work as Mario Escudero, not Francisco Sanchez Gomez (aka Paco de Lucia) as it appears in the 1971 album). To that effect, it should be noted that barring the dancer´s "zapateado" added to the work in the second record, the musical interpretation of the work is exactly the same in both records. To me, for example, this is like attributing "Asturias" as an original work of Lucero Tena for adding castanets to Isaac Albeniz´s own work - and Albeniz´s name is no where to be found.

Lastly, Paco de Lucia´s "El Impetu" work is registered as an original composition by Paco de Lucia in the SGAE since 1971, albeit it should also be noted that after raising this issue with the artist´s heirs, they have assured me they are in the process of correcting this inscription so that the correct composer is properly reflected moving forward.