Talk:Paddy Summerfield

Contested deletion
This page should not be speedy deleted as an unambiguous copyright infringement, because... I have been asked by Patricia Baker-Cassidy to make this page for them. They supplied me with the content to use, which is their own content! , I am not being paid... feel free to email them and ask: pbakercassidy@gmail.com

here is the email trail:

Ah, already I have travelled to the frontiers of ignorance.... If you go to Wikipedia & look at Chris Killip (or John Goto) who are both photographers of Paddy's generation, we wanted something like that. Brief outline of career/ published works/ some of the exhibitions/ some of the reviews. And - are they called hyperlinks - where you can click through to another page? It would be good to create a few eg to Album Magazine - short-lived but hugely influential - where Paddy's work appeared in issue 2. His name is on that page, but not as a hyper-link, so not found in searches. So - am I asking for a page or a site under the Wiki umbrella? Thanks Patricia

On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 8:30 AM, jared reabow <> wrote: Can I clarify are you wanting a Wikipedia site or are you wanting a page on the existing Wikipedia about something?

On 29 Jan 2018 08:15, "PBC" <> wrote: I do hope this is the right email for you. Are you a person we could ask to create a Wikipedia site? We have all the info/ references etc BUT when once I tried, about 6 years ago, it was such a huge struggle and ultimately unsuccessful. What do you think? Best regards Patricia B & Paddy Summerfiel --Ox141jf (talk) 23:23, 4 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Please see WP:DCM. red dogsix (talk) 23:42, 4 February 2018 (UTC)


 * I have done so. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ox141jf (talk • contribs) 00:09, 5 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Hello Ox141jf and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. I have massively cleaned up this article. I have also removed the copyrighted content that was copied verbatim from another site that did not indicate it was making the text available under a non-free license; I was thus able to remove the warnings about this. It does not matter who wrote the text, they need to provide it under a non-free license for it to be able to be used by Wikipedia / Wikimedia. This page should now be fine. However if you wish to rewrite the biographical prose in your own working then that would be welcome. Even just a summary for the intro would be welcome. -Lopifalko (talk) 13:11, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Please note that all claims need to be reliably sourced. -Lopifalko (talk) 10:56, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

Improvements required
Each exhibition listed requires a reliable reference, such as from the organisation holding the exhibition or a broadsheet newspaper. -Lopifalko (talk) 13:26, 5 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Ok I understand, Just to correct myself from earlier I presumed that Patricia had the same name as paddy, my mistake they do not.
 * She is in fact still Patricia Baker-Cassidy, I presumed that she had since married.
 * And I must once again confirm that I am not being paid.
 * I am just doing this for them as they asked me to and offered to pay, but I did not take them up on this offer.  ... added on 6 February 2018 by Ox141jf 

britishphotography.org and "Hyman Collection" pages
I've just removed the reference "" (for the claim that PS's photographs are in the V&A collection). My reason is that the website britishphotography.org doesn't seem reliable: if we look at its page about Homer Sykes, for example, we see that it is, er, heavily derivative of Wikipedia's article about HS. (And yes, I'm certain that the "influence" went in the direction Wikipedia to britishphotography.org, and not vice versa.) -- Hoary (talk) 02:21, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Convincing evidence for the allegation of paid editing?
This talk page has quite a history:


 * 4 Feb 18 (23:29): Reddogsix writes (via a template) that "Ox141jf (talk · contribs) has been paid by Paddy Summerfield. Their editing has included contributions to this article." (emphasis added by me, Hoary)
 * 4 Feb 18 (23:36): Ox141jf changes "paid" to "Unpaid" (thereby introducing a syntax error to the template)
 * 4 Feb 18 (23:36): Ox141jf adds "I am not being paid..."
 * 4 Feb 18 (23:36): Reddogsix deletes "(Unpaid)"
 * 5 Feb 18 (12:07): Reddogsix adds "(paid)", with the edit summary Based on a re-read of the editors response, I am changing this back to a paid contributor tag. (emphasis added by me, Hoary)
 * 6 Feb 18 (10:02): Ox141jf blanks the talk page
 * 6 Feb 18 (10:54): Lopifalko restores the talk page
 * 6 Feb 18 (19:18): Ox141jf writes that they were asked to write the page not by Paddy and Patricia Summerfield but by Patricia Baker-Cassidy, "And I must once again confirm that I am not being paid. / I am just doing this for them as they asked me to and offered to pay, but I did not take them up on this offer."
 * 6 Feb 18 (19:22): Ox141jf changes "paid" and "Paddy Summerfield" to "NOT paid" and "Patricia Baker-Cassidy" (thereby introducing a syntax error to the template)
 * 6 Feb 18 (19:22): Ox141jf deletes " (NOT paid)" from the template (thereby fixing the syntax error)
 * 6 Feb 18 (20:07): Reddogsix adds "(paid)" to the template, and also switches back "Patricia Baker-Cassidy" to "Paddy Summerfield", with the edit summary Reverted to revision 824337351 by Ox141jf (talk): not convinced this is not a paid engagement. (emphasis added by me, Hoary)
 * 6 Feb 18 (20:08): Reddogsix changes "Paddy Summerfield" to "Patricia Baker-Cassidy", with the edit summary Corrected employer

Reddogsix, exactly what and where is your evidence for payment? (I'm assuming that you don't add Template:Connected contributor (paid) merely because the truthiness of payment happens to be evident to your gut.) -- Hoary (talk) 03:36, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I contend an offer for payment is akin to a payment. red dogsix (talk) 04:22, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Kinship aside, "X offered to make a payment to Y" does not entail "Y received a payment from X". Are you conceding that you lack evidence that she was paid? -- Hoary (talk) 06:43, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Soo whats the situation here? I feel like I am being picked on or somthing... I have not been paid by them to do this because I did not ask for payment as all i did was put the provided content from the OWNERS of the content onto wikipedia. They have jumped through loops providing emails of copyright release etc and still trouble. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ox141jf (talk • contribs) 16:20, 8 February 2018 (UTC)


 * On payment: I'm asking Reddogsix for evidence of their claim that you were paid. If it's not forthcoming by this evening (my time), I shall alter the template so that it doesn't say you were paid. Meanwhile, you are welcome (i) to provide help on this talk page for this article (e.g. you can point to reliable sources on the web), and (ii) to edit other articles. On copyright: You may not recycle text for Wikipedia just because (i) it's good text and (ii) the copyright holder has authorized you to recycle it. The web page (or whatever) must clearly show that the copyright holder explicitly either (i) renounces all rights to the material or (ii) releases it under one or other of two "copyleft" licences. -- Hoary (talk) 20:57, 8 February 2018 (UTC)


 * "Executive summary": There is no evidence; so we can assume that the editing has been, and is, unpaid.


 * As anyone interested may have already noticed, Reddogsix has failed to provide any evidence, and I've removed the claim that you, Ox141jf, received any payment for the creation of an article (or its maintenance, augmentation, etc). If you know the biographee or his partner, that's OK: you can continue editing and improving the article. Just be sure that what you write comes with references that, in principle, anybody can check. (The "in principle" part is primarily about availability through libraries. If you happen to be in Britain, you probably have access to libraries with a lot of relevant material that's not in libraries in Japan, where I happen to be.) Actually you can write more about PS's work from the two sources that have already been provided in the article for each of the books Mother and Father and The Oxford Pictures. The usual school/university rules apply: what you write must normally be in your own words; the exceptions must be in quotation marks or block quotations. -- Hoary (talk) 00:34, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

Empty Days
Good edit by Lopifalko. Actually the Pylot-via-Dazed article isn't a reference for the book (it doesn't even mention the book). Nevertheless, the removed chunk --
 *  Empty Days. Stockport, UK: Dewi Lewis, 2018. ISBN 9781907893612. 

-- is worth bearing in mind for future edits. -- Hoary (talk) 13:09, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Also, the cited ISBN for Empty Days was actually the ISBN for Mother and Father. -Lopifalko (talk) 13:19, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Distant Times
Until a few minutes ago, "Smaller publications by Summerfield" contained: Caferoyalbooks.com has a page about each of its booklets. It has no page about (or, I think, mention of) Distant Times. I infer that although Distant Times may be in the pipeline, it doesn't yet exist. I've therefore removed mention of it. -- Hoary (talk) 01:02, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Distant Times. Southport, UK: Cafe Royal, 2018.
 * Ah, now the website does have such a page; Lopifalko was right to reinstate the booklet in the list. -- Hoary (talk) 08:14, 22 February 2018 (UTC)

Remember Hope
"Smaller publications by Summerfield" contains: What is this, exactly? It's not at Worldcat. The only reliable-looking mention I see of it is here on Facebook; but this makes it look less like a publication, more like a dummy (a proto-publication, perhaps), nominated by Badger. What evidence do we have that this has actually been published? -- Hoary (talk) 01:02, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Remember Hope. Photopaper 17. Fotobookfestival Kassel, 2017. Edited by Gerry Badger.


 * There has been no response, so I deleted mention of it. Of course, I'd be delighted to be proven wrong, whereupon it could be reinstated. -- Hoary (talk) 01:45, 17 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Sorry I didn't see this otherwise I would have said: http://photopaper.world/paddy-summerfield/, which I found when researching its correct name. Is it a magazine though?: "Published on a quarterly basis, PHOTOPAPER is available on subscription and in selected artbook stores. Each quarterly shipment include 3 issues of PHOTOPAPER wrapped in a poster by one of the featured artists. Each issue has 16 pages, format 21 x 29cm. On subscription, 12 issues per year cost 24 Euro, including shipment worldwide. PHOTOPAPER is independently published by the Kasseler Fotografie Festival, the non-profit organisation which runs the international Fotobookfestival Kassel, Germany." -Lopifalko (talk) 07:07, 17 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Thank you! I've reinstated it, with a note. -- Hoary (talk) 12:56, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Other photo of Summerfield
This photograph of Summerfield, used in earlier versions of this article, is excellent. Ox141jf wrote that copyright belonged to Patricia Summerfield. Patricia Summerfield should write to OTRS today or tomorrow in order that Wikimedia Commons can retain the photograph. I hope that she does so. Otherwise it will be deleted. -- Hoary (talk) 01:33, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm surprised to see that this file is still awaiting either authorization or deletion. Ox141jf, are you on to this? (Inaction is sure to lead to deletion.) -- Hoary (talk) 01:52, 16 February 2018 (UTC)


 * I don't know if there was any attempt to show that the file was at Commons legitimately, but it has now been deleted. -- Hoary (talk) 23:52, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

Serota involvement in exhibition
The article says "When Nicholas Serota was director of the Museum of Modern Art, Oxford, he offered Summerfield the opportunity to exhibit Beneath the Dreaming Spires, his first one-man show, in 1976."

I believe that the show did take place at that gallery, of which Nicholas Serota was the director at the time. However, I am skeptical about the claim that Serota "offered him the opportunity" without seeing a source for this claim (the exhibition might have been organised by curators with very little involvement from Serota himself, for instance). Since Serota has since gone on to become one of the more significant people in the UK arts establishment, and a bit of a 'taste-maker', this reads to me a bit like someone trying to associate Summerfield with this big name to boost his own credibility. Given that the article was originally written by someone based on text provided by Summerfield and his partner, this seems a distinct possibility.

If anyone can find a source for this then that's fine, but otherwise I think it's worth heavily rephrasing this bit. Ascendingrisingharmonising (talk) 13:28, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

"Oxford all his life"
This article says he "has lived and worked in Oxford in the UK all his life" (and cites a source which agrees), it says in the infobox that he was born in Derby (not cited or repeated in the article), and another section mentions that he studied in Guildford (which suggests he probably lived in Guildford for that period of his life). If someone fancies a small job they could try clearing this all up! Ascendingrisingharmonising (talk) 13:46, 29 April 2022 (UTC)