Talk:Palantír/Archive 1

Origin and Feanor
I'm currently reading the Silmarillion. It describes Feanor creating 7 stones that allow you to see great distances, just like Manwe does. Curious if this was talking about the Palantíri, I looked the the entry in the Appendix, which said that the word Palantír refers to any of the 7 stones created by Feanor. Why does this article present the origin of the stones ambiguously? It seems to me that it's fairly clear, but perhaps a contradicting source is the reason for the lack of clarity. Thanks,

3nails4you (talk) 18:53, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

Tolkien's Concept, Persian Mythology
The similarity with the Persian mythology symbol, Jamshid's Cup, could be mentioned in the article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cup_of_Jamshid

{ .. the Cup were said to reveal deep truths. Sometimes, especially in popular depictions such as The Heroic Legend of Arslan, the cup has been visualized as a crystal ball. Helen Zimmern's English translation of the Shahnameh uses the term "crystal globe". }

91.184.95.215 (talk) 21:10, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

Origins And Characteristics
There is some questionable information in this section. It says "many were made" - but I can't find any reference to more than the 8 usually referenced (the seven given to the Faithful, and the Master-stone). If there is a reference to 'many' being made, it should be cited. Also, Unfinished Tales distinctly says that the Stones themselves exerted no power over another will, until Sauron gained control of the Ithil-stone. The essay also explains 'shrouding' and aligning the stones for use, etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bflood (talk • contribs) 00:07, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

How to view a Palantir
I seem to recall from reading one of the books that to view a Palantir, one must look directly into it. The movie, however, has Saruman holding his clawed hand over it. This probably deserves mention in the 'Adaptation' section. (I don't remember where exactly I read it myself.)


 * It seems clear from LotR itself that the stones were used by looking into them, but details of their use can be found in 'The Palantiri' in Unfinished Tales. The movies had both Pippin and Aragorn looking into the stone so I'm not sure what the deal was with Saruman just holding it. --CBDunkerson 01:00, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Maybe there are different approaches on how to use the stone. The Orthanc Tower was built to watch over the land and see how the people fare. Saruman probably used its stone to have a glance on what the people are doing, wich is the only thing Sauron can see. Pippin would probably see exactly that - what everybody is doing. To figure out what's going on inside them (something that stone would immediately reveal, if it wasn't for Sauron) - something Saruman wouldn't be interested in - it would either take guesswork or a keen yet naive gaze.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.119.84.143 (talk) 12:35, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Extensive information on the mechanics of using a Stone, are provided in Unfinished Tales. I will update with that. One DOES need to look directly into it, and need to be looking in the direction one wants to see.

Maerlyn's rainbow
Might the palantir be the inspiration for Maerlyn's rainbow? PrometheusX303 01:01, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Contradiction
The Elostirion stone - contradiction with the article on Cirdan. In the current article the Elostirion stone is "taken by Círdan back to Valinor" and "taken back to the West with the three Elven Rings". However, in the article on Cirdan, he does not travel to the West with the 3 rings. The rings travel with Frodo, whereas Cirdan waits for Sam and they travel together. I have NO clue which is canonical/correct, but thought I'd mention it. I will post the same comment on the Cirdan discussion.--Smcgrother 20:59, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

'Deception' by the palantír
This claim smacks of OR. It's not even completely accurate, Aragorn wasn't deceived in any way. It's an attempt to relate a number of different events with a single theory. Thu (talk) 15:51, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Redirection Bug?
This is not about the topic of a Palantir, but the actual wiki page. The redirection at the top says "Palantir Solutions", but the raw wiki code says, correctly, Palantir Technologies. What gives? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.34.34.43 (talk) 02:27, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Rating
Regarding GimliDotNet restoring this article's rating to a B here. I suppose your project can rate articles any way you want, but I should tell you that your assessments are way off if you think this article is a B. I wouldn't even classify it as a C. I understand that you may think it is nearing completion because the article covers (seemingly) every appearance of these objects in the novels and adaptations, but the in-universe details are all it covers. The article does not contain anything asserting real-world notability (not even in the film section!). It has only a single secondary (non-Tolkien) source. In its present state, this article is actually prime for AfD or merging into a list as a subtopic not deserving of its own article. If WikiProject Middle-earth actively considers articles like this a B, you should really take another look at the Grading scheme so that your dedicated participants are able to improve articles properly.&mdash; TAnthonyTalk 14:44, 12 October 2015 (UTC)


 * And to clarify: your edit summary suggests that the article is not a Start because it is "huge"; size may make an article not a Stub, but beyond that it's the quality of the information and how it is presented that impacts its assessment. I think you could argue for a C with this one, but you're not encouraging improvement when you overrate articles.&mdash; TAnthonyTalk 15:03, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
 * For wiki projects, it's common courtesy to raise them either here on the talk page or with the project rather than unilaterally setting them yourself if you have an issue with their gradings. There is a lot of work that needs doing for all me-articles but it is for the members of the projects to review them. I'm going to start a discussion at WP:me to try and get some traction 17:26, 12 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes certainly, I thought it was incorrectly assessed and re-rated it, but I respect your challenge and I've not changed it back. I have no intention of reassessing all of the ME project articles or anything like that, but I did want to point out what I see as a potential problem with your project's assessments if this is a common example. Who is actually assessing the articles, and do you have specific guidelines laid out beyond the standard WP criteria? I see Bilbo Baggins is a Start and it's no more complete than this article. Anyway, I've been working with fictional topic articles for many years and it's always a challenge to improve and maintain them because we love the in-universe details, but reliable secondary sources aren't always readily available.&mdash; TAnthonyTalk 18:22, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
 * A lot of the ratings predate my joining wiki, so many are over 8 years old at least. To be honest take out the in universe stuff out and you could probably delete 1/2 the Tolkien articles. but it's like treading through mud trying to get movement going. GimliDotNet (talk) 19:00, 12 October 2015 (UTC)


 * Haha I'm with ya, there are many fictional areas of interest like that, everyone likes adding trivia but no one wants to do any of the heavy lifting! Well good luck and I will certainly help out if I can, but unfortunately LOTR is not really my area of expertise.&mdash; TAnthonyTalk 23:22, 12 October 2015 (UTC)