Talk:Palazzina Appiani

Educational Project Page
This page is part of an Educational Project by students of LIUC, Italy, with a course page at: https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/LIUC_-_Universit%C3%A0_Cattaneo/Digital_Technology_(Autumn_2020)/home The users of the group are new to the Wikipedia platform and are learning to edit following Wikipedia rules. They are open to any advice on improvements of the page in conformity to Wikipeida requirements and guidelines, and any help useful for the enhancement of the page will be gladly accepted. The student team User names are: Limelightangel (talk) 09:50, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Nicolo333
 * M.casalini
 * Marchesa02
 * LIUCgmc2
 * LIUCceci2
 * LIUCgmc2
 * Liucteo01


 * User:LimelightangelThank you! We will now continue adding information!

Talk page style, conventions and help
Note the conventions, purpose and 'rules' for using Talk pages. Other editors can see these. Don't be discouraged from using it regularly, but note the following: *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Talk_pages *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Introduction_to_talk_pages/1
 * you sign all your posts (see those on this page, and on other Talk pages), using 4 tilde (~) symbols - this automatically adds your username and date/time stamp
 * you can ping specific users by username in Talk
 * create meaningful section headings for the Talk page; don't just list a book/website URL or add comments to the wrong sections
 * the page is for discussion on article content; don't just use it to say "I've added an image".
 * look at some existing talk pages to see how they work
 * read and use the Talk page help resources, including:

As an example: the two comments below need moving to a relevant section heading, and the automatic signature of the person who has posted (it's easy: 4 tilde (~) symbols creates my signature and time stamp). You also need to sign replies, and indent your replies in the same section using ':' Limelightangel (talk) 10:47, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

I've just added the initial description of Palazzina Appiani. I am now researching information about the history of the monument. Could you (User:Nicolo333, User:M.casalini, User:LIUCgmc2, User:LIUCceci2, User:LIUCgmc2, User:Liucteo01) help me with the recap table on the right of the document? I can't figure out how to put coordinates and images correctly. Thank you for your cooperation! Marchesa02 (talk) 12:44, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Marchesa02 Good you've started to use the Talk page. Note the guidelines for using this section. Your request for help needs to go in a page section, not under this section on Educational Project Page.

Limelightangel (talk) 13:03, 26 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Structure your Talk page under the existing sections, or created a new section. This structure then helps users to see discussion/issues, and post threaded replies/fixes.  You can edit it just like the draft page, and move things around for clarity.  The above comment from LIUCgmc2 does not belong in a section under 'Talk page style, conventions and help'.  Why not create and put it in a section on 'images'? Limelightangel (talk) 11:51, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Style and NPOV
You cannot include subjective content e.g. 'important'. This is an opinion. You can say it is the biggest - this is a fact. Note the extensive help guidelines on writing style and Neutral Point of View (NPOV), e,g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view Limelightangel (talk) 12:57, 26 October 2020 (UTC)


 * User:LimelightangelThank you, I will change that immediately. Marchesa02 (talk) 14:51, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

References and Sources
The content needs citations for all the content, so that it is clear where the information comes from. All editors need to add these at the same time as adding the relevant content. Use the Cite drop-down in the edit page, select the correct media format for your source, and complete as much of the template as possible. It was covered in the online training, and there is plenty of online help. Some useful starting points are: Limelightangel (talk) 12:59, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Referencing_for_beginners
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Introduction_to_referencing_with_Wiki_Markup/1


 * User:LimelightangelThank you Marchesa02 (talk) 14:51, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Automatically generating the table of contents box
For each page with at least four headings, a table of contents (TOC) is automatically generated from the section headings - so add more sections and develop the use of sub-sections. You do not need to manually create the table of contents, so delete the table and use the correct section headings to do this. More help on this at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Section Limelightangel (talk) 13:12, 26 October 2020 (UTC)


 * User:LimelightangelDone, thank you! Marchesa02 (talk) 14:51, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Article Page Topic
Can you check and clarify the relationship between your draft page topic, and this existing page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arena_Civica Limelightangel (talk) 13:20, 26 October 2020 (UTC)


 * User:LimelightangelOf course, thank you! Marchesa02 (talk) 14:51, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Issues to address in the draft (31/10/20)
- the page requires equal and regular contributions from all project members. User User:M.casalini has made no page edits. - it is required that the Talk page is used by all project members. Only User:Marchesa02 and User:LUICgmc2 have used it. See [] -Avoid the use of words like 'however', 'instead', 'magnificent', 'in fact', 'thanks to', 'with regard to', etc. -Do not use subjective and personal style e.g. 'Inside you are immediately welcomed' -Use the the past tense for historical developments -avoid things like '15 stone!' - learn how to use Ref Group in the cite templates to reference the same source multiple times from the text, but list it only once in the references. There are two references for an identical source (currently references 12 and 13). See Help:Footnotes#WP:NAMEDREFS - use acceptable sources, and avoid sources like myBrixen, Hiwio, etc. See Acceptable_sources- Fix the red errors in references (currently refs. 5 and 7) -book references need publishers and correctly formatted ISBNs. Use the Cite Book template correctly, and see [|Wikipedia:Training/For_students/Citing_books] -Add citations to all factual content - there are no references for any of the text after the first paragraph -avoid large blocks of unreferenced text. See [|Wikipedia:Citing_sources]
 * as an Educational Project:
 * Sections: the page needs the use of Sections (there are none) and sub-sections. Structure the page with these, and look at related pages for good practice. Add sections and sub-sections. Look at some similar pages. I think you need a section on 'Origins', then within History you need 'Construction (with sub-sections on the different buildings, with relevant images), then sub-sections within history for various time periods, finishing with the present day. See Help:Section
 * Writing Style & Tense: I have removed a large number of inappropriate words, and many uses of the present tense used for past events. Try to write in an encyclopedic and objective style. Specifically:
 * References:
 * the reference number five is a book published in 1932 which doesn't have a ISBN code. Liucteo01 (talk) 22:03, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
 * thread your Talk discussions next to the relevant text. Your reply here should be under the issue you have fixed, so it is clear to other users; and 'ping' the user you are replying to. Limelightangel (talk) 12:06, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

-it needs a detailed map of the layout/location -the images need locating with the relevant text sections, and formatted to align with the relevant text. See [|Help:Pictures] -image captions need to say specifically what/where they are, not just 'Main entrance from the right'. They are stored outside your page and need to have clear meaning on Wikicommons. -the lengthy introductory text on Napoleon and Milan is not specifically about the topic, and needs to be removed. It belongs on other existing pages about Milan, Napoleon, etc, which you can link to. I suggest you remove much of this that is unrelated to the topic, but have a brief sub-section that introduces the topic in the context of the relevant political and military events. -does your content related to the Arena, such as 'The Arena is built in an elliptical shape, with thick rough walls constructed with the material from the demolition of the Sforza Castle fortifications (the Arena is made completely out of reused 15 stone!). The ellipsis of the Arena was topped with a row of shrubbery' belong on the page for the Arena Civica? Limelightangel (talk) 12:12, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Content:
 * Linking out: remove duplicate links out to the same existing pages e.g. Sforza Castle. See: [|Help:Link]
 * Quotations: learn the correct style for these. See: [|Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Quotations]
 * thanks for the advices, we will work on it as soon as possible!Liucteo01 (talk) 21:48, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Issues to address in the draft (09/11/20)
- the draft page and Talk discussion requires equal and regular contributions from all project members. - it is required that the Talk page is used by all project members. - there are only 4 references. - avoid large blocks of unreferenced text. The huge block of text under Luigi Canonica has no references, yet comprises the bulk of the text content on the page. It will get rejected. See the helpful comment from user Bkissin. See also [|Wikipedia:Citing_sources] -the images need locating with the relevant text sections, and formatted to align with the relevant text. Some of the images in the gallery can be moved and aligned with the relevant text sections, when the latter are structured properly. The main entrance image is duplicated. Try to get some acceptable historic images to support the relevant text e.g. for the circus. See [|Help:Pictures] - Learn the conventions, and remove duplicate links out to the same existing pages. See: [|Help:Link] - create reciprocal links in to the page from other relevant existing pages.
 * Draft banner still missing:
 * Talk page style: You need to sign all Talk posts, including important ones related to the accidental draft submission. User:LIUCgmc2 has placed a Talk post outside any sections, at the top of the Talk page, above the talk page contents box. Tidy up the Talk page by reorganizing the content for ease of use and better credentials. The post here relates to feedback from User:Limelightangel, and should be a threaded (indented) reply to the earlier relevant post that it addresses.
 * as an Educational Project:
 * Sections: the page needs much better structure, the use of Sections and sub-sections. Structure the page with these, and look at related pages for good practice. Add better sections and sub-sections. The sub-section 'today' is under Architecture; there are no sub-sections under History after 'the project'; there is a huge block of history text under the sub-heading for 'Luigi Canonica'; there is content about Architecture' under 'History'; etc. See Help:Section
 * References:
 * Content:
 * Linking out: Still issues with links.
 * Quotations: learn the correct style for these. See: [|Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Quotations]
 * is 'the arena' the same as the 'Arena Civica'?
 * yes it is, sir Liucteo01 (talk) 12:52, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
 * User:Liucteo01}} then the first mention of the arena needs to be the link out [[User:Limelightangel|Limelightangel (talk) 14:20, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

It is about the environment the Palazzina is in. LIUCceci2 (talk) 13:40, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Style and Writing: avoid subjective and inappropriate text like 'blinded by the energy of the city'; 'thanks to'; etc. Remove repetition.
 * does the text on the Arena relate to the topic, or the Arena?

Location map
The location map needs locating in a section 'Location', below the table of contents. A plan showing park buildings would be better. The location section should come before History. Location should not be a sub-section of Architecture. Perhaps this sub-section needs a better title, and you need an earlier section on the actual location. Limelightangel (talk) 14:18, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

LIUCgmc2 (talk) 20:27, 16 November 2020 (UTC)Thank you for the advice, we will change it.


 * Team, do you think that we could put the subsection Location and the one of Surrounding Buildings together? I believe that they are very similar topics and shouldn't be separated... I fear that we could be too repetitive. I'm open to any suggestion, Thank you. Marchesa02 (talk) 22:26, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

I think it’s okay this way but let’s see what the other guys think Liucteo01 (talk) 20:44, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

Team do you want contextualize the location, like adding some text for explaining the location better or left as it is ? I don’t want it to look incomplete, but not repetitive M.casalini (talk) 16:52, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Gallery and See Also
The Gallery and See Also sections are only supposed to be used as a way to add images and links that do not fit in the main body of the page, but are found to be correlated with the page's topic. If a link or image has already been added to the page, there is no need to add it again below. Please check before editing. Nicolo333 (talk) 17:05:, 22 November 2020 (CET)

Thank you for the remark Nicolo333. I have just added a new link in the section See Also which was not in the main body of the page.LIUCgmc2 (talk) 09:29, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Hall of honour

 * Team,

I added more informations about the frieze and its actual painter, Angelo Monticelli, after the FAI sent me more informations about it. The frieze is a peculiar detail of the Palazzina Appiani, do you think is better create a separate paragraph or left everything in the same one? m.casalini (talk)

The FAI asked to incorporated details also about the restorations M.casalini (talk) 10:23, 5 December 2020 (UTC) I tried to split into two paragraphs because when I finished it, it was too long for being just one singular paragraph, but I'm not convinced. What do you think would be the best separation ? m.casalini (talk)

The frieze

 * Team

We could put the artist in the Origins as we did for the others, and left the paragraph with the frieze descriptions and details, for not overwriting in the latter paragraph, and make everything more homogeneous. What do you think ? M.casalini (talk) 10:23, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

I suppose it would be better to put the artist in the section OriginsLIUCgmc2 (talk) 18:23, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

The frieze part has to be splitted, we can split using the sub-heading 2 font, creating another level of paragraph. I was thinking about divided it following the division of the frieze, so in four parts, one for each wall, but I am not sure, do you have other proposes ? M.casalini (talk) 13:48, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

Referencesces
A note for the reference n10. We had some issues for finding references which were valid for Wikipedia criteria. So we decided to put the official facebook page of Palazzina Appiani as one of them because they use the page as an official channel to report and communicate events and facts about the building. We also contacted the official body to have more informations and references but the material given to us does not comply with wikipedia criteria.

We asked on the wikipedia community about the possibility to add a facebook link as reference, since some pages added few similar links, and they said us that it would have been accepted in special cases. M.casalini (talk) 17:03, 12 December 2020 (UTC)