Talk:Pale lager/Archive 1

Descriptions
The two descriptions in the article as it stands today are really the same and can be combined. I'll then need some other way of emphasizing the dichotomy between mass-market and craft American lagers. A task for another day... Brian Rock 06:01, Mar 26, 2004 (UTC)


 * This is not correct. "Dry" is a specific beer style (as you see, for instance japanese beer Asahi). Instead of merging the voices, i guess it's better to cite "Dry beer" as a subcategory of Pale lagers.

Carbonation
RatOMeter's latest edit brings up a point. The old link to carbon dioxide really didn't cover carbonation (<- this redirects to carbon dioxide) properly, and neither does carbonate. I'll put a new article on carbonation on my 'to-do' list. Brian Rock 23:03, Mar 26, 2004 (UTC)


 * Done! Brian Rock 00:47, Mar 27, 2004 (UTC)

Ale vs "Lager"
Many contributors to this encyclopaedia are incorrectly using the term "lager" when they mean bottom fermented Ale or Beer. There are two main types of yeast - top fermenting yeast and bottom fermenting yeast. In the UK, Ireland and Belgium, the predominant method of brewing uses top fermenting yeast. In Germany and central Europe (Czech Republic and other places) the predominant method uses bottom fermenting yeast.

The term lager is almost exclusively used in the UK and Ireland (possibly in other English speaking countries). It would never be used by a German Brewer to describe a beer. It is used to describe a brewing process - lagering is storing beer until the fermentation has slowed down to a specific point; this is a process that tends to be used for bottom fermented beers; although top fermented beers do have to go through a period of conditioning.

Bottom fermented beers can be light, dark, strong, weak, wheat beers etc... calling them lager is a misnomer.

The products marketed as lager in the UK was inevitably very light and bore a passing resemblance to Pilsner beers, or Budweiser beers (those from the Czech? towns of Pilsen and Budweis respectively). However this was as often as not Top fermented beer, anyway! So to compare bottom fermented beers with lager is an insult to continental brewers.


 * I agree, the first sentence in the German Wikipedia on Lager is "Lagerbier oder kurz Lager ist ein untergäriges Bier, das durch die Reifung beim Lagern schmackhafter wird." (Lagerbier or short Lager is a bottom-fermented beer, which gets it's flavor by maturing during storage.), so Weizen is not a lager in Germany. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.245.163.175 (talk) 12:34, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

The Lager Brothers
I got this from a site regarding the etymology for "lager beer" : ''there were two brothers named Gottfried and Sigmund Lager (c1400-1470) who founded a famous brewery in Dortmund. In the 1440s they quarrelled and Gottfried upped and moved to Munich where he prospered by selling this strong, pale beer.'' Jay 19:22, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)

The above contradicts the established wisdom that the term lager derives from the German word meaning 'to store'.

I am not aware of any McEwan's beers that are lagers... They are all ales, as far as I know. Can anyone confirm this?


 * McEwans do make a lager, but their main beers are the 70 & 80 shilling, which are ales. The examples of lagers given here are a joke: Scotland has twice as many lager examples as Germany, where both the Scottish brewers mentioned aren't even particularly known for lager, and the German brewer is by far not the largest producer.  And Jever isn't even particularly bitter. I'll make some changes, starting with deletuing these:


 * Tennents : Scottish, standard international lager
 * McEwan's : Scottish, strong rivalry with Tennent's
 * That's better Charles Stewart 23:24, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Inaccuracy - or not as the case may be
"The most evident difference compared to the yeast that was used in the rest of Europe is that lager yeast deposits on the bottom after the fermentation rather than rising on the top." While lager yeast is "bottom-fermenting" and ale yeast is "top-fermenting", this is during fermentation. After fermentation both ale and lager yeasts fall to the bottom, a process known as flocculation.

Top fermenting yeast has to be helped to flocculate - hence the use of finings which are usually isinglass. It is only then that the yeast will fall to the bottom.

Some yeasts have high levels of flocculation, and some have low levels of flocculation (such as those used in hefeweizens), but yeast do not flocculate to the top. If the yeast does not fall to the bottom after fermentation, then the beer will be cloudy.


 * Is this better? Wikibofh 03:36, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Merge
I suggest merging lager into pale lager as the contents are largely the same.  SilkTork  * SilkyTalk 21:26, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

I've done the merge, though I'm wondering if I should have done it the other way round. Pale lager into lager.  SilkTork  * SilkyTalk 21:38, 8 October 2007 (UTC)


 * well, let me help you decide: whats the difference between lager and pale lager? And if there is none, why does the term pale lager exist? ;) --Echosmoke 20:03, 2 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, you can get dark lagers - such as Schwarzbier. Though we don't have an article on Dark lager. The term "lager" is often understood to mean pale lagers, though it does have a broader application as well. I'm not entirely sure about my merge.  SilkTork  * SilkyTalk 16:59, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Lager is an umbrella term under which various flavors or styles of lager beer would be listed--helles being one of them. The term "pale lager" doesn't really mean anything. I suppose it would be a lagered version of a pale ale, though this is not a recognized style of beer. A helles, as defined by the Beer Judge Certification Program, resides in a lager subcategory called Light Lager, meaning it's lighter in body and (generally) strength than it's darker counterparts. "Pale" and "light" are not interchangeable in beer terms, although people are often confused by this. OldWiseBrewer (talk) 17:24, 31 December 2007 (UTC)