Talk:Pallar/Archive 1

A Big Fine Mess
I can barely make head nor tail of this article: duplicate sections with slightly differing wording, no formating to speak of, a mix of lore with fact. The problems are innumerable. I'm going to cut huge swatches from this. I may make mistakes but it is impossible to read in this form. Pigman 03:25, 4 October 2007 (UTC)


 * OK, I've made a pass through it and cut duplicate sections and did some minor formatting, mostly to break up the huge blocks of text. I'm not familiar with the subject but there are massive POV problems with it. I'm having trouble differentiating between what seems to be religious (and apparently at least partially legendary) history and concrete history. This article needs an expert and to be refined down to pertinent facts. It rambles and the sections are not properly titled or organized. I may be back to work on it but I doubt it; it's just too overwhelming for me. Pigman 04:06, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

POV and original research vs. scientific angle
The problem with most articles about Indian castes is that there is too much POV. In an encyclopedia, the article about a people group should be as close to the anthropological/ethnological/ethnographic point of view as possible.

Caste-promotion should be left aside. It is of no interest to the readers, and it reflects social/political agendas that are mostly POV. Signed: Shiva 122.162.165.45 (talk) 13:29, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

help regarding history of dalits in indian freedom movement against british imperialist
help regarding history of dalits in indian freedom movement against  british imperialist

moderators are asking reliable source for dalits freedom movement

dalit political leaders should help in updating dalits battle against british imperialist Raja.m82 (talk) 08:35, 29 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Please do not make live articles without appropriate reliable sources - please re-read WP:FIRST. You can work on articles in your own userspace, before making them live - WP:USERSPACEDRAFT.  Chzz  ►  08:40, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

please who deleted pasupathy pandian founder of devenderar vellalar kootamimipu (also from pallar community)
please who deleted pasupathy pandian founder of devenderar vellalar kootamimipu (also from pallar community) should update his history in wikepedia to understand the struggle of dalits

ur deletion thinks u want monopoly in leadership of pallar community to a particular doctor from that community

ur approach is not good for a good democracyRaja.m82 (talk) 07:45, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Please dont fight in the notable people section
There is a lot of fight going on in the notable people section.So i have deleted it.This is for everyone to notice please dont fight. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tamil1988 (talk • contribs) 07:47, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Problem with the figure for population.
The figure given for Pallar population: 1.5 crores is unbelievable. Considering only the Tamil Nadu's population of 6,24,05,679 from Census 2001 data and the fact that the Scheduled Caste population for Tamil Nadu in that Census 2001 is 1,18,57,504, it works out to be 2.54 percentage points more than the whole Scheduled Caste population.

Percentage of Pallars according to this site: 24.03

Percentage of total Scheduled Caste population according to Census 2001: 21.49

You might ask to consider the population in the rest of the world. But consider this:

The Tamil speaking population according to Wikipedia under 'Tamil People' is 7,70,00,000.

Again the percentage you give is 19.5% of all Tamil speaking people. Still not believable.

These figures are important. They show the reliability of the content that's being read. Do something about this! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnrameshkhan (talk • contribs) 20:31, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

About the population
According to the census of 2001 the population of pallar is not 1.5 crore. So what is the reason for denoting the population as 1.5 crore. The reason is many people belonging to this caste were mentioned as Adidravidar in the census. So their population became very less according to the census. These people live in all the districts in Tamilnadu largely except northern districts where they are found very less. Also the subcaste of the Devendar kula vellalar such as Kaaladi,moopan are present in Backward class and Mannadi present in MBC. So the population is mentioned as 1.5 crore. The exact population of the Devendra kula vellalar will be available after the caste population calculation which is going to take place in 2011.Tamil1988 (talk) 06:34, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Census Data of each Tamil Dalit caste.
http://www.censusindia.gov.in/Tables_Published/SCST/dh_sc_tamilnadu.pdf Johnrameshkhan (talk) 19:30, 18 November 2010 (UTC)rjrk

Please dont use the word 'Dalit'
Please dont use the word 'Dalit' when you are mentioning about 'Devendra kula vellalar'. This is a request on behalf of the 'Devendra kula vellalar' people. Our people get hurt by that word.117.193.65.107 (talk) 14:57, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Please dont fight in the notable people section
It is not good if you continue to fight in the notable people section. I will remove it completely. Fighting to put the names of your favorite politician and removing the politician names whom you dont like. Are you all children fighting like this. No one is concerned to improve this article. Simply fighting for names then how other's will respect this community people.Tamil1988 (talk) 07:46, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Condemn
Devaneya pavanar belongs to 'Devendra kula vellalar' caste. There is no such caste called 'Thevar' in the entire list of cates in Tamilnadu. Please mention any valid name, also if you want to mention about 'Devendra kula vellalar' use 'Devendra kulathar' it is present in the list. I condemn your comments.Tamil1988 (talk) 11:21, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Tamil quotes
In this article iam interested in adding two Tamil quotes from 9th and 10th century Tamil dictionary. Which is only 2 lines in length. And iam also going to explain its meaning in English. Since this article is controlled by admin i need your views on this matter.Tamil1988 (talk) 16:15, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
 * What do they say in English and what do you intend for them to support? Any documents of that age will almost necessarily count as primary sources, which means we have to be careful and not interpret their meaning in any way. Qwyrxian (talk) 00:51, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

I dont want to interpret their meaning in any way. I will give the meaning for them in English as same as their meaning in the Tamil. They are to be mentioned to support the claim that there was a caste with the name Mallar and their work is mentioned as farming and fighting.Tamil1988 (talk) 04:08, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

List of notables
...they must stay removed until a reliable source verifies that the people are/were in the Pallar/Mallar caste. The citation can be either here or on the linked Wikipedia article, but it must be verified or they cannot be listed. WP:NLIST clarifies that there are absolutely no exceptions to this for living people, and it is generally true for deceased people, though verification is always better. Qwyrxian (talk) 02:50, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

"Notable people section should be added to this article because not all the names mentioned there are non verified specially two names like Immanuvel Devendrar and Veeran Sundaralingam are verified. You could have removed the non verified name until they have been verified.Tamil1988 (talk) 04:13, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I just read every reference on Immanuvel Devendrar (except the last one, which isn't online) and not one of them verifies which caste his is in. The article says he is Devendra kula vellalar, but it doesn't support that with a reliable source.   Veeran does seem to be verified, so I'll put him back (it wasn't directly linked, but it's there, so my mistake).  Qwyrxian (talk) 08:35, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Why every time the list of notable persons deleted from this Mallar page. The list provided are very much true.

These are the references:
 * Read the june edition of the mazagine - Source: http://www.maruthamalar.com.co.in/
 * http://www.pallar.org/pallar/people.htm
 * Read all the news related to paramakudi. Just type in google the word paramakudi you will come to know the mallar people.

Sundarapandian1978 (talk) 06:21, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Neither of the first to are reliable sources per WP:RS. As for the third, it's up to the person who wants to include the info to provide the sources--you can't just tell us to search for them.  Reliable sources include articles in major newspapers, academic journals or books, some government publications, etc.  Qwyrxian (talk) 06:24, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

More references for notable people:


 * http://savukku.net/home1/1250-2011-09-15-14-48-51.html
 * http://savukku.net/home1/1241-2011-09-14-09-15-52.html
 * http://savukku.net/home1/1233-7-.html
 * http://savukku.net/home1/1228-2011-09-11-15-54-56.html
 * http://www.vinavu.com/2011/09/12/dalits-killed/
 * http://www.vinavu.com/2009/09/18/emmanuel-sekaran/

Also don't forget to read the comments below in the article by public people.

Sundarapandian1978 (talk) 06:28, 18 September 2011 (UTC)


 * You need to read WP:RS. Blogs and other self-published websites are almost never reliable.  Comments on any site are even less reliable.  Qwyrxian (talk) 06:53, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

More references for notable people and they belong to the Mallar community:


 * http://www.hindu.com/2000/04/20/stories/0420223h.htm - For John Pandian
 * http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Madurai/article2455650.ece
 * http://news.oneindia.in/2006/04/08/dalit-leaders-wife-hacked-to-death-in-gang-attack-1144450966.html
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pasupathy_Pandian
 * http://election.dinamalar.com/Constituency_main.php - In this page the constituency named (தனி) means reserved for schedule caste. It can be either for pallars / parayars. So click on the constituency named (தனி) and know who won. Only the people who won in constituency named (தனி) and that too who belonged to Mallar community were listed in the notable persons.
 * http://election.dinamalar.com/Candidates.php?id=687
 * http://election.dinamalar.com/Candidates.php?id=688
 * http://www.koodal.com/news/shownews.asp?id=43736&title=maaveeran-imanuel-sekaran-remembered-news-in-tamil
 * http://www.maalaimalar.com/2011/03/19154601/tirunelveli-candidate-Pasupath.html
 * http://www.inneram.com/2011041115432/nellai-district-last-movement - தேவேந்திரகுல வேளாளர் சமுதாயத்தின் ஓட்டு வங்கிதான் வெற்றியை நிர்ணயிப்பதாக உள்ளது
 * http://www.hindu.com/fline/fl1522/15220380.htm
 * http://www.hindu.com/2001/05/07/stories/15072238.htm
 * http://www.hindu.com/2008/03/31/stories/2008033154830700.htm
 * http://www.dinamalar.com/news_detail.asp?Id=48481
 * http://www.dinamalar.com/News_Detail.asp?Id=21168
 * http://www.dinamalar.com/News_Detail.asp?Id=209713&Print=1
 * http://www.dinamalar.com/News_Detail.asp?Id=59596&Print=1
 * http://www.dinamalar.com/news_detail.asp?Id=287296&Print=1
 * http://www.dinamalar.com/News_Detail.asp?Id=170062&Print=1
 * http://www.dinamalar.com/news_detail.asp?Id=241980 - தேவேந்திரகுல வேளாளர் சமுதாயத்திற்கு முக்கியத்துவம் அளிக்கும் வகையில், கருப்பசாமிக்கு கால்நடைத்துறை அமைச்சர் பதவியும்
 * http://www.dinamalar.com/News_Detail.asp?Id=43583&Print=1
 * http://www.maalaimalar.com/2011/01/08154933/leader-puratchi-kavithasan-int.html
 * http://www.dinakaran.com/News_detail_2011.asp?Nid=435
 * http://www.dinakaran.com/Obama-india-visit-details.aspx?id=22768&id1=4
 * http://dinamani.com/edition/estory.aspx?Title=%E0%AE%9A%E0%AE%AE%E0%AF%82%E0%AE%95+%E0%AE%92%E0%AE%B1%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%B1%E0%AF%81%E0%AE%AE%E0%AF%88+%E0%AE%AE%E0%AE%BE%E0%AE%A8%E0%AE%BE%E0%AE%9F%E0%AF%81&artid=379726&SectionID=137&MainSectionID=137&SectionName=Edition-Madurai&SEO=
 * http://www.dinamani.com/edition/story.aspx?&SectionName=Edition-Madurai&artid=267310&SectionID=137&MainSectionID=137&SEO=&Title=%E0%AE%95%E0%AF%81%E0%AE%B1%E0%AF%81%E0%AE%A8%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%A4%E0%AE%95%E0%AE%9F%E0%AF%81%20%E0%AE%B5%E0%AF%86%E0%AE%B3%E0%AE%BF%E0%AE%AF%E0%AF%80%E0%AE%9F%E0%AF%81
 * http://www.dinamani.com/edition/print.aspx?artid=395166
 * http://diverseeducation.com/article/16252/

And lot more references for the notable people in Mallar community. The above are reputed Indian newspaper websites. Do read and understand the reputation of the notable people in Mallar community. Also you will understand how these people work hard for the community's uplift.

After reading all the news articles i want to re-enter all the names in the notable people list. Please take this a kind request and hope it is as per wiki rules & laws.Sundarapandian1978 (talk) 07:46, 18 September 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm trying to assume you're contributing in good faith....but you're being extraordinarily unhelpful. First, list each source with a specific person. It's not my job (or anyone else's) to go through each of the articles and see which ones verify which person.  Second, some of these are still very clearly not RS, likke the "diverseeducation" or wikipedia articles.  Third, for any of the non-English ones, you're going to need to provide a translation of exactly which person and what the article says that indicates the person is Pallar.  Here's what you should do: make a list, below (not in a new section, just right below this comment).  Put the person's name you want, followed by the citation.  Include only citations that meet WP:RS.  If the citation is not in English, translate the relevant sentence.  Do not include anyone who does not have a Wikipedia article (we'll deal with those later, as we need more specific info out of the source than just verification that they are Pallar).  I'm not trying to be mean, but I do need to know what it is I'm looking for in each citation before figuring out if it's sufficient. Qwyrxian (talk) 12:41, 18 September 2011 (UTC)


 * I think this user has bypassed this conversation altogether. See: List of Mallar / Devendra Kula Vellalar / Pallar. Dr.K. λogosπraxis 15:38, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I have requested speedy deletion of that page under A10 (G12 also applies since it copies this article w/o attribution), and given a very stern warning to Sundarapandian1978. Qwyrxian (talk) 01:38, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Thank you Qwyrxian. I agree. Dr.K. λogosπraxis 03:14, 19 September 2011 (UTC)


 * On a sidenote, Sundarapandian1978, you also can't put "Thiru" in front of everyone's name. Honorifics are not used in Wikipedia, except perhaps in the lede of a specific person's bio to indicate any special titles (knighthood, doctorate, religious titles) that they may have achieved. Generic titles of respect before names are not NPOV. MatthewVanitas (talk) 01:45, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

See the Pallar talk page for references, for what you have asked. In future before deleting, you better surf and search. If you want more i will be glad to provide more references in pallar talk page. Hope you know how to use google. Google have all the references you have. I have given the notable people name only after referring all possible data, and never gave any random names. And it is not necessary for us to give any random names for our community. So kindly you better read the references and undo the changes you have done.

Please read the references & undo the changes what you have done.

T0 User talk:Dr.K. Sundarapandian1978 (talk) 07:55, 18 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Please read what user Qwyrxian tells you above. I agree with what he tells you. Also specifically with First, list each source with a specific person. It's not my job (or anyone else's) to go through each of the articles and see which ones verify which person.. I couldn't have said it better myself. Also your hope that "I can use Google" has been fulfilled. I do. But *I do not have to use it* for the reasons that user Qwyrxian has told you above. Dr.K. λogosπraxis 15:34, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

This article is way out of whack with scholarly focus - no mention of Dalits, OBC violence, etc?
I've done some basic glancing at gBooks to see what comes up with "Pallar". Turns out there's a ton of fascinating stuff about Dalit vs. OBC caste politics and extensive violence, issues of feminism, caste redefinition, etc. Basically none of which is in this article except in a very between-the-lines way in mentioning their name change. Most of the article is political argument for the Mallar and Pallar being the same, and the Pallar having been important people prior to Great Historical Wrongs which put them in their current (not mentioned in the article) low status. Most of this article needs to be wiped, the political argument removed and then summarised as a description of the argument, not a defence of it. Plus most of the "Origin" doesn't even mention the Mallar (the supposed origin), so is a ton of scene-setting better handled by wikilinks. This article really needs a hard look at what the academic and journalistic worlds find most noteworthy about the Pallar, not a place for the Pallar to propagandise, or demand the word "Dalit" not be used to spare feelings. Denying a people's history, even or especially when it isn't all unicorns and sunshine, is doing nobody a favour. MatthewVanitas (talk) 02:06, 19 September 2011 (UTC)


 * First of all Dalit is not a name these people like to be tagged with them. Also the word Dalit is unconstitutional which is mostly used by the media to refer the whole scheduled caste. The constitution of India does not allow anyone to use the name other than Scheduled caste to refer to the caste belonging to Scheduled caste. If anyone uses anyother names to refer to Scheduled caste it is an offence. That is the reason why that word is not used in this article. Also the violence and caste clashes between these people and other caste was mentioned in this article but it was removed by the administrator. You have put the name Devendra kula vellalar and mentioned that it means that they are created by Devendra to serve the vellalar caste. It is a wrong statement Devendra kula vellalar means they are agriculturist who are the descendance of Devendra. They are not slaves who would serve other caste by the creation of god. Please read Tamilnadu governments history to know about this people. They are only mentioned as agriculturist not as serving other caste. Gbooks does not have all the books about these people so we could not take into account some books which have some information about these people. Origin which you have mentioned above actually tells about the Mallar. Devendra kula vellalar name is mentioned in the origin because to explain the reason why these people are using this name to refer themselves.Tamil1988 (talk) 12:52, 19 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Several points:
 * Neither "the Indian government doesn't allow it" nor "it hurts peoples' feelings" are legitimate reasons to remove the absolutely vital word "Dalit" from the article. Major Indian newspapers used that term to refer to the Pallar not four days ago, so who are we to censor it: "The founder of Gospel Lutheran Christian Union that worked for the emancipation of the Pallar sub-caste among the Dalits". I can't imagine how anyone is expected to understand the Pallars' situation without understanding their Dalit history; this seems terrible whitewashing.
 * The source linked appeared to translate the term as "serving the Vellar". I have removed that comment for the moment, but will re-check the source and look for further details.
 * I'm not particularly interested in history as published by the Tamil Nadu government, since they may have their own agenda, so I'd prefer to look at publications by academics specialising in South India.
 * The Origin I mentioned does not "actuall tell about the Mallar", it takes forever to get to even the slightest mention of them, and that sets aside entirely the issue of whether the Mallar are the Pallar. If it's a contested point, we should have a page for Mallar, and this article can explain, in brief "Pallar may be Mallar, here are a few theories" and some footnotes. Having entire sections whose titles imply "evidence that the Mallar theory is right" are clearly POV.
 * Hope this clarifies, please do not remove the term "Dalit" again with such subjective arguments. MatthewVanitas (talk) 14:24, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

I appreciate your action of removing the comment 'serving the vellalar'. The source that you were mentioning might be from a foreign author during the British rule. I too have studied that information. But majority of authors dont accept it. Also we should give respect to the history of Tamilnadu written by scholars from Tamilnadu. Hope you dont post that comment again because it will lead to many concerns. I dont object the term 'Dalit' because these people are continuously becoming victims of caste violation. I can understand your point but my point is these people does not like this term. In the past they have filed case against the newspapers who have mentioned them as 'Dalit'. It may hurt their sentiments. They believe that no one else has the right to name them. They themselves have the right to name themselves. I again repeat Indian constitution doesn't allow anyother name for Scheduled caste. It is unconstitutional. The history part in this article is the history of this people first written by this people and then by other authors. Now this history is accepted by most of the Tamil professors,Tamil scholars,Historians,archaeologist in Tamilnadu. Some of them are mentioned in this article.Tamil1988 (talk) 14:59, 19 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Clearly, I have no problem with Tamil historians provided they are actual academics, not hobbyists, partisans, political leaders, etc. Though certainly it's positive to have non-Tamil and non-British academic sources for neutrality; for example, we wouldn't want to write an article about the Vietnam War using only American and Vietnamese sources, since both nationalities may have trouble divorcing emotion/bias from the topic.


 * I will look into the "servants of the Vellalar" quote; if it's misinterpreted, or just one source, it can be left out, but if it's commonly held by modern academics, it should be included. I'll poke around more on this etymology issue, and in general the politics involved in the demanded name-change.


 * The term "Dalit" is consistently used to describe the Pallar in almost all academic and journalistic sources. I realise they may not like the word, but Wikipedia is not censored. Not using the term "Dalit" on WP will not suddenly remove caste biases against the Pallar, but clearly explaining how people labeled "Dalit" have been oppressed might lead to a better understanding, inside and outside India, of the ongoing social evils perpetrated. If the section on anti-Pallar attacks was removed earlier, it might have had troubles with sourcing, bias, or being too anecdotal. I would support having a section on "Caste violence" which gives a cohesive "big picture" view of how the Pallar have been targeted and/or fought with others.


 * I again repeat Indian constitution doesn't allow anyother name for Scheduled caste. It is unconstitutional. "Unconstitutional" as in the Indian gov't won't use the term, or it's illegal for others to use it? If the first, doesn't really apply. If the second, then there are a whole ton of newspapers and publishers in India using the term that are in big trouble I guess. Further, Wikipedia servers are in Florida, so my understanding is the WikiMedia basically says "we don't have to follow Indian law; if you are in India and are unsure of what you can legally write here, please contact a local legal advisor as we have no position on that." I'm not in India, neither are the servers, so no legal reason not to say "Dalit". On a side-note, I would imagine there's a big difference between "Caste X is labeled a Dalit caste, here is their history" and "hey guys, let's go beat up some Dalits", in terms of what the Indian gov't is trying to prevent. In whatever case, as mentioned above, it's a very important word and should be in the article; if you have RSs to support a more nuanced way to phrase it, I'm open, but there's no way not to have the word "Dalit" appear somehow in the lede.


 * For the "Origin" section, let's get a few fresh eyes to look at it, but I still submit that even setting aside the Mallar/Pallar issue, it's too meandering and unclear, barely even mentioning the Mallar. And if there is any academic doubt on Mallar/Pallar, it would be better to mention that in brief, vice the current "methinks thou dost protest too much" of building the article as an argument for Mallar/Pallar. MatthewVanitas (talk) 15:24, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Overall, yes, this article is a huge problem; as you say, it's entire purpose seems to be to argue (or, at a minimum present the argument) that Mallar/Pallar are the same. It actually used to be worse; I did one of my aggressive parings on this a while ago, including removal of a lot of POV language and a heavy amount of non-English quotations (if I remember correctly).  That entire argument needs to be reduced to a single section (or, if that's impossible, moved to a separate article and summarized here). But since you've managed to begin finding more, new sources, it's probably better to add the new info first and see how the article shapes up, then later cut down the excess.  Qwyrxian (talk) 21:22, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Evidence that Pallu poems were derogatory?

 * Many 'Pallu' poems were written to popularize the name Pallar. These 'Pallu' poems also discriminated against the Mallars.

This arguments smells a little MatthewVanitas (talk) 19:59, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

The 'Pallu' poems are said to be discrimating the 'Mallars' because these people never liked the name 'Pallar' but it was forcefully imposed on them. 'Pallu' poems originated in a time of history when these people were on a decline in social status and Tamil history. Also many pallu poems were written by poets who had backup from the rulers of Tamilnadu at that time i.e) Nayaks so it is the general feeling among these people that 'pallu' poems were written to popularise the name 'Pallar'. Also 'Pallu' poems are totally written about these people and the poems are in large numbers in Tamil literature but these people were never felt proud for that. Instead they claimed these poems were written to discriminate them. Another question arises about the 'Pallu' poems i.e) why should a large number of poems were written about a particular group of people at a time when Tamilnadu was captured by other rulers than Mallars.Tamil1988 (talk) 05:04, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Secondary source
I want the admin's to check the article about the secondary sources. I have added some secondary sources to this article. If they are satisfied then we can remove the primary sources tag in the article.Tamil1988 (talk) 15:08, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Sure, why not. The article still has a number of primary sources, and is mostly offline sources (which is okay but makes it difficult to verify what the originals say), but it's okay enough I think that I've removed the tag.  As a side note, you don't need an admin to do that--you can even do it yourself.  If someone else disagrees, they can put it back--and the fact that I'm an admin and removed it holds no extra value, because admins are given no more authority in determining content than any other editor. Qwyrxian (talk) 10:32, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 15 January 2012
Please Include Other Our community Leaders are Veeran Sundralingam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veeran_Sundaralingam) ,Mr.S.Deva Ashirvadham

Selventhiran.irtt (talk) 09:26, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. That article doesn't appear to have any sources verifying Sundralingam was a Pallar. Without that verification, the person cannot appear here. If you do know of a reliable source, please post it here and it can likely be added to his bio and then we can add him here.  Qwyrxian (talk) 09:32, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

April 2012 renewed cleanup
Been away for a while, both busy with off-wiki life and with other caste articles. I drop back in and see that there's been extensive degradation of the article in the past few months, so reverted back to a March 2012 version. My intentions over the course of this year include:


 * Getting to the bottom (with WP:Reliable sources) as to coverage of the Mallar->Pallar claim. Yes, clearly some have written on this issue, but we don't need a breathless pile of a dozen citations for that one statement. So we should cull through the refs for the most reputable ones, and preferably in English and available online. Not that those last two points are definitive, but just that they'd be of more utility to readers/editors on an online English-language site.
 * Add some decent Public Domain photographs of historical Pallar people and their environment/customs
 * Some commentary as to the culture, lifestyle, and religion of the community
 * Add mention of caste violence, including fights between the Pallar and OBC
 * Maybe some details about their relationships with the Paraiyar?
 * Figure out how Pallars factor into both Buddhist and Christian conversion movements

Those are just a few points, and I'd welcome any help in fleshing them out, as well as removing/replacing any unreliable text or refs. MatthewVanitas (talk) 18:10, 15 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Quick question for Tamil1988, what's the story with this image? If it's just something you put together with various names for Pallar, that's fan art and not really admissible. If it's not something you yourself made (which is how it's labeled on the upload) then that's a copyright issue and you need to identify the author/origin. Plus I'm not really clear what purpose the image serves. Maybe instead we could find some historical photographs of membrs of the Pallar community? MatthewVanitas (talk) 19:57, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Puller
They were never called by the name "Puller". It might be a pronounciation mistake by that colonel author.Also "Pallan" is not their previous name it is a word that denotes a single person and not a group.Tamil1988 (talk) 12:39, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 1 one external link on Pallar. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit User:Cyberpower678/FaQs for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20121001012055/http://www.newkerala.com/news/world/fullnews-133641.html to http://www.newkerala.com/news/world/fullnews-133641.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 16:42, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

Origin and name
this part is written due to vandalism against a particular community

need to edit and the reference given is not acceptable — Preceding unsigned comment added by MuruganKudumbar (talk • contribs) 09:05, 5 October 2016 (UTC)


 * Please read WP:NOTVAND and WP:CENSORED. The content that you removed was not "vandalism" and Wikipedia reflects what reliable sources say, not what people would like to read. "Reference given is not acceptable" is not a good enough explanation for removal - you will need to explain why you consider them not to be acceptable. (I presume your note has a typo because there are a multitude of citations to different sources in the content that you removed.) - Sitush (talk) 09:59, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 June 2017
Need to add some extra details about Pallars. Some description need a minor edit. 14.139.190.20 (talk) 13:09, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Izno (talk) 13:31, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 July 2017
I'm basically from pallar caste,i see many of our historical and cultural activities are not added in this page,we are the decedents of pandiyar kings.nothing is included in this page.only tamil literature is mentioned so kindly give me permission for that. Arunkannan Pannadi 10:09, 17 July 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arun.pannadi (talk • contribs)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone will add them for you, or you can wait until you are autoconfirmed and edit the page yourself. DRAGON BOOSTER   ★  13:05, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 July 2017
I'm waiting for your acceptance for editing. Arunkannan Pannadi 10:14, 17 July 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arun.pannadi (talk • contribs)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone will add them for you, or you can wait until you are autoconfirmed and edit the page yourself. DRAGON BOOSTER   ★  13:06, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 July 2017
i need request to change the lines in this siteArunkannan Pannadi 10:36, 18 July 2017 (UTC) Arunkannan Pannadi 10:36, 18 July 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arun.pannadi (talk • contribs) If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ". Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 11:37, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
 * ❌ This is not the right page to request additional user rights.

Semi-protected edit request on 18 July 2017
grant me access to edit the site Arunkannan Pannadi 10:37, 18 July 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arun.pannadi (talk • contribs) If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ". Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 11:37, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
 * ❌ This is not the right page to request additional user rights.

Semi-protected edit request on 18 July 2017
change the word dalit,kindly remove the word dalit and pariyar from pallar page. Arunkannan Pannadi 10:41, 18 July 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arun.pannadi (talk • contribs)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: as you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 11:38, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 July 2017
pallar people live in coimbatore,erode,tripur,salem,namakkal,karur,pollachi,thoothukudi,sivagangai,sivakasi and many parts of tamil nadu and all over world.kindly add these places in the page. you have added only 3 districts,totally we live in mostly all districts of tamilnadu Arunkannan Pannadi 10:48, 18 July 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arun.pannadi (talk • contribs)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: as you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 11:39, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 July 2017
I keep on claiming you that please remove the lines "a similar process was seen in the fellow Dalit Paraiyar (or Paraiyan) community" why should u mention other community names in our community site,so kindly remove these line. Arunkannan Pannadi 10:22, 19 July 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arun.pannadi (talk • contribs)


 * The statement is a relevant parallel and this article does not belonv to the Pallar community. Many caste articles refer to other castes. - Sitush (talk) 10:26, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 July 2017
Kindly add the district details clearly Arunkannan Pannadi 10:28, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

Arunkannan Pannadi 10:29, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. DRAGON BOOSTER   ★  10:32, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 July 2017
remove these sentence "a similar process was seen in the fellow Dalit Paraiyar (or Paraiyan) community" from the page because this is irrelevant to our community. Arunkannan Pannadi 10:25, 19 July 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arun.pannadi (talk • contribs)


 * Already answered today. - Sitush (talk) 10:46, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 August 2017
2405:204:7104:9899:8F1E:E11B:9AC:16F2 (talk) 14:37, 2 August 2017 (UTC) Please request your change in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ". Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 15:14, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: as you have not requested a change.

Semi-protected edit request on 9 August 2017
ஆனந்தி (talk) 11:00, 9 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. DRAGON BOOSTER   ★  12:01, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

Request to the administrator
Lots of edits have been done to this article by some person. He removed the section containing details about their history and he has given an explanation that all in Tamilnadu are descendants of kings. Also he has removed many things and also added a {who} tag in the article. There is no need for the {who} tag in that sentence because there is many reference links has been given in that sentence. This itself shows the aim of that person. If people want to know some details about these people and they come to wikipedia what are they going to see. Let these people tell their own history. If you want to remove details about them. please completely remove this article.Tamil1988 (talk) 10:50, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

most references which you are citing are unreliable.can you stop making claims in the air and provide some solid references.Pernoctator (talk) 10:53, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

The references which were present here are mostly from the books of Tamilnadu historians, scholars, and also from some newspapers. The claim that you have removed "Mallars are the descendents of chera,chola,pandiyan" is supported by two articles written in Tamilaga arasiyal which is mentioned as a reference in this article. It is an independent source and also the claim "mallar is pallar" is supported by the newspaper article. Then about the links to various other articles in wikipedia is placed here to give information to readers that there are many other castes are present in India with the same name mallar,to support a common belief that many people from this caste went to many places across india. The sports with the name mallar is mentioned due to the same reason. It is an added information about the orgin of these name and not claiming anything.Tamil1988 (talk) 14:19, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

i don't want an explanation on what the sources say.just that the sources you were using are unreliable.also there is a problem of wp synthesis.can you be a liitle more specific on who is saying what.the article is anyways a mess.some of the sources are in tamil.i doubt their credibility.Pernoctator (talk) 14:35, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi Jananibs27 (talk) 01:57, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

I need to add few points here Jananibs27 (talk) 01:58, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

Origin and name
Can you please make the above mentioned changes to the para. The details about pallar being in pallam or low lying pits are ridiculous. They are not descendants of pallava but Pandiya most probably. But definitely not pallava. Can you please make these corrections. What are low lying pits?! And where are they located in Tamil nadu. It's preposterous. Please remove that. Jananibs27 (talk) 15:51, 9 February 2018 (UTC)


 * The paragraph appears to be sourced. - Sitush (talk) 17:43, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

Origin and Name
The term 'al'/'mal' in 'mallar' means dark in Tamil. Mallar were agriculturists from Sri Lanka. They were dark skinned due to farming under the exposure of sun.It is believed that they performed agriculture with the knowledge of weather from "Aindara sithan" named so because the man knew panjamasidhis, also known as "Indrajith". These mallars introduced farming in India. Indians being lighter skin tonned called these dark skinned agriculturars as 'Mallars'. Mallars had also specialized in martial art forms in order to protect their food storage produced by farming. And hence the common usage term " Mal yudham" came into existence. The term mallar was deliberately turned into derogatory term as "Pallar" during non Tamil rule in Tamil nadu around 700 years ago like during Vijayanagara Telugu rule in south India.Jananibs27 (talk) 02:37, 9 February 2018 (UTC)


 * See WP:V. - Sitush (talk) 15:44, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Pallar/Pallan means King
Pallar/Pallan also means king ,the original name of Bihar was Pallan.Palla also means protector &ruler(pg 110,the open secrets of India,Israel, Mexico -from genesis to revelations! Moopan Devendra Kula Vellalar (talk) 04:26, 8 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Just because someone writes something in a book etc does not mean we always include it. The book you mention is a self-published work from the iUniverse stable. We do not use stuff printed by that outfit. Please familiarise yourself with WP:RS. - Sitush (talk) 16:58, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Devendra Thirukulla Pallars were in Backward Community(Bc) Bfr 1935 & Pallars formed the Pandiyan army ,They also belong to the Kurmi Kshatriyas
they were in bc(backward community before 1935) and they were known as Devendra thirukulla pallars this should be in their page -they correctly formed the pandiyan army -they are found chiefly in the pandiya country -their subcaste are supposed to be mention Devendra Kula Vellalar -kudumbar -moopan -Devendra kulathan -Pannadi -Pallar -Kalladi -Kadaiyar -vathiriyar -they also belong to the kurmi Kshatriyas Moopan Devendra Kula Vellalar (talk) 04:25, 8 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Source? See WP:V. - Sitush (talk) 16:55, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Tamil studies or essay on the history of the Tamil people,language,religion and literature by srinivasa aiyangar first series with map and plate Pg 107 states that pallans correctly the mallars formed the pandiyan army Bro can I have your email,as I have some documents & Court orders that I want to show it to u Moopan Devendra Kula Vellalar (talk) 02:28, 17 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Document and court orders are not reliable sources - see WP:PRIMARY. Nor is this Aiyangar book you mention, which dates from 1914 or thereabouts. No source from the Raj era etc is considered reliable for use on Wikipedia. - Sitush (talk) 04:19, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 August 2018
Bbagath (talk) 17:29, 15 August 2018 (UTC) Norway Has Evidence of Pallar/mallar/pandion Tamil Dynasty clan. Norway Has Evidence of Pallar/mallar/pandion Tamil Dynasty clan.Researched by orissa Balu, with the help of the sea Turtle with help of RIFD chip .He find a turtle route,which is reached an Tamil names, as per his research he proved Tamil pallar/mallar are pandion. Proud To be an Tamilan....!!https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-qiSv9pS-Wbo/WCgNoo3jYgI/AAAAAAAAAO4/8ePQQVNbiiYEOGvwS6BnXbdOprbUCJsAQCLcB/s1600/mallas.jpg This community was in bc(backward caste) before 1957, at that moment the shanars (nadars) were in the sc(schedule caste). The chief minister at that moment was Kamarajar who was born to Kumaraswamy Nadar and Sivagami Ammal, moved the nadars from sc to bc,and some of the Devendra Kula Vellalar subcastes to sc, the nadars at that moment were in a very bad condition,there is also saying that when we see them itself it's bad and they were not allowed to wear clothes above their hips. Some have also said that the Devendra Kula Vellalar community were poor during that time so they were included into the sc to improve their living,but it was totally wrong why is it soo? If a community is poor can they buy lands and own a lot off lands?Cannot right they were also ancient agriculturalists, since 2000–3000 yrs ago and the pandyan kings are from Devendra Kula Vellalar community.

https://www.quora.com/How-did-Pallars-get-SC-reservation-in-Tamil-Nadu. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bbagath (talk • contribs) 17:46, 15 August 2018 (UTC)


 * ❌ CLCStudent (talk) 18:13, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Devendra Kula Vellalar community given first respect in ancient temples built by the Tamil kings
Devendra Kula Vellalar community is given first respect in almost every ancient temple,the festival only begins after they have been given first respect and temple chariot procession only starts when the Dkv touches the chariot Moopan Devendra Kula Vellalar (talk) 04:27, 8 May 2018 (UTC)


 * So what? This appears to be ranting and to have nothing to do with improvement of the article, which is the sole purpose of this talk page. - Sitush (talk) 16:56, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Dear Sitush, It appears nothing for you, but facts are facts. For this respect, many clans had wars for many years to get such respect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bbagath (talk • contribs) 18:58, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

Recent changes
The recent changes by have introduced a cite error that I can't resolve (see the error in the Refs section regarding Ramaiah Journal), have changed the infobox for something that appears to be even less sourced than it was previously, and have introduced a lot of citations into the lead section that should not be there per WP:LEAD. They also introduced some Tamil script but I have at least managed to fix that bit. - Sitush (talk) 17:19, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

And statements such as In Sri Lanka, the Pallars were one of the communities who were the Kudimakkal or domestic servants who also gave ritual importance seem to be gibberish to me. - Sitush (talk) 17:23, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

How does it mentioned devendrakula vellalar?
Pallar community is not recognised as devendrakula vellalar by government of Tamil nadu. In such situation how it is mentioned in Wikipedia? Since more decades they are all called as pallar,kaladi,pannadi,moopan,kudumbar and devendrakulathan. So till govt recognise, devendrakula vellalar name should not be used. E.sivakumar1988 (talk) 09:31, 23 October 2018 (UTC)

biased information
There is a biased information regarding devandra kula vellalar in this page. The editor had put his own biased view on this page. Pallars are land owning community and not slaves. The editor has referred some unknown biased soures to refer pallars as slave. Pallars have high status in Hindu Society as they are getting first respect in many important Hindu temples in Tamilnadu.Further they are descendents of Indra. Wikipedia should check malicious edits which is done purposely to malign the image of the community among general public. Santhosheconomist (talk) 14:44, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

You are correct sir. They are all mostly rich but unfortunately added into the scheduled caste list. Which make them worst in terms of political participation. They are all warrior group. During peace time they all do farming but in war time they are warrior. Example venni kaladi who was the general of puli thevan.which is after the vijayanagara empire.Before them they were descendants of pandyas few scholar said that. Santhanakumar b (talk) 06:11, 29 December 2018 (UTC)


 * This page is for discussion of improvements to the article. If you can provide reliable sources to support your claims then we could perhaps incorporate them into the existing text. What we cannot do is accept your own opinion, so you're wasting your time and that of everyone else with comments such as these. - Sitush (talk) 08:44, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

i will come with reliable sources about dalits involvement in freedom struggle against british imperialism i need some time because of some constraints
i will come with reliable sources about dalits involvement in freedom struggle against british imperialism i need some time because of some constraints

without evidence i will not edit about dalits freedom fighters againt british imperialism becuase i believe in non feudalistic democracy journalism Raja.m82 (talk) 12:32, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Pallar are mallar not a devandrakula vellalar Muventhan rs (talk) 16:14, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

Pannadi
A page should be created for this caste.

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=10IwAQAAIAAJ&dq=pannadi+pallar&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=pannadi+pallar

Pannadi and perur temple

https://www.covaipost.com/tcpnewsinshorts/coimbatore-perur-temple-car-festival/

Naatru Nadavu festival

https://www.covaipost.com/tcpnewsinshorts/naatru-nadavu-seed-transplantation-festival-celebrated-in-perur-temple/ Mamallarnarashimavarman (talk) 07:11, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=P3LiAAAAMAAJ&dq=pannadi&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=pannadi

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=10IwAQAAIAAJ&q=pannadi&dq=pannadi&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiPnqLPwr_hAhU48XMBHXPrCJUQ6AEILzAC

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=KNGWOuYUXIkC&q=pannadi&dq=pannadi&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjokpb0wr_hAhXTjOYKHaKeCSc4ChDoAQhEMAc

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=jHQMAQAAMAAJ&q=pannadi&dq=pannadi&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiPnqLPwr_hAhU48XMBHXPrCJUQ6AEIRzAH Mamallarnarashimavarman (talk) 08:01, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Kudumbar
Page needs to be created for this caste.

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=RRxuAAAAMAAJ&dq=kudumbar&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=Kudumbar+

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=MPkrAAAAIAAJ&q=Kudumbar&dq=Kudumbar&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjLvb6GhMDhAhX18XMBHYPQAlEQ6AEIRDAG

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=EgggcAE_x9UC&q=Kudumbar&dq=Kudumbar&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjLvb6GhMDhAhX18XMBHYPQAlEQ6AEIPzAF

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=Cdnxn_3GeeMC&q=kudumbar&dq=kudumbar&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjqgPSThcDhAhU46XMBHQzdDDsQ6AEIKzAB

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=jeF-r72rVF4C&q=Kudumbar&dq=Kudumbar&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjLvb6GhMDhAhX18XMBHYPQAlEQ6AEIOjAE

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=dXl8KbmMVtMC&q=Kudumbar&dq=Kudumbar&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjLvb6GhMDhAhX18XMBHYPQAlEQ6AEINjAD

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=2SkbAAAAIAAJ&q=Kudumbar&dq=Kudumbar&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjLvb6GhMDhAhX18XMBHYPQAlEQ6AEIMDAC

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=Cdnxn_3GeeMC&q=Kudumbar&dq=Kudumbar&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjLvb6GhMDhAhX18XMBHYPQAlEQ6AEIKzAB Mamallarnarashimavarman (talk) 08:09, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Kaladi
Page needs to be created.

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=w2AwAQAAIAAJ&q=kaladi+pallar&dq=kaladi+pallar&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjcrc7-hcDhAhUjheYKHfnMDIQQ6AEIKTAB

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=2SkbAAAAIAAJ&q=kaladi+pallar&dq=kaladi+pallar&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjcrc7-hcDhAhUjheYKHfnMDIQQ6AEILjAC

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=W0IwAQAAIAAJ&q=kaladi+pallar&dq=kaladi+pallar&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjcrc7-hcDhAhUjheYKHfnMDIQQ6AEIPzAF Mamallarnarashimavarman (talk) 08:12, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 April 2019
Please add

According to some historians, the Pallars are descendants of Pallavas who ruled the Andhra and Tamil countries between the 6th and 9th centuries. The Pallavas appear in the Sanskrit Literature Pallas, Pahlavas, Pahnavas, Palhava, Plavas. Historian Gustav Solomon Oppert derives the Pandi word from the Tamil word "Pallandi " meaning "king of Pallas". The name "Pandi' is a contraction of Pallandi which is a composite of two Tamil words "palla" and "andi". In Sangam Period, the word "andi" means " king" or "ruler. .

Another theory suggests that in Sangam Tamil lexicon the word Pandya means old country in contrast with Chola meaning new country, Chera meaning hill country and Pallava meaning branch in Sanskrit. The Chera, Chola and Pandya are the traditional Dravidian siblings and together with the Pallavas are the major Kings that ruled ancient Tamilakam 141.168.18.231 (talk) 22:16, 26 April 2019 (UTC)


 * I am sorry but we do not consider sources from the British Raj era to be reliable for matters relating to caste. - Sitush (talk) 16:23, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 April 2019
Historian Gustav Solomon Oppert derives the Pandi word from the Tamil word "Pallandi " meaning "king of Pallas". The name "Pandi' is a contraction of Pallandi which is a composite of two Tamil words "palla" and "andi". In Sangam Period, the word "andi" means " king" or "ruler ". Athivin (talk) 08:07, 25 April 2019 (UTC)


 * This is the book cited on the Pandya dynasty article: . There the sentence speaks of "king of Pallas", but this article only mentions Pallar and Pallam. Can this be shown to be the same group of people? – Þjarkur (talk) 08:23, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

According to some historians, the Pallars are descendants of Pallavas who ruled the Andhra and Tamil countries between the 6th and 9th centuries.

The Pallavas appear in the Sanskrit Literature Pallas, Pahlavas, Pahnavas, Palhava, Plavas.

Historian Gustav Solomon Oppert derives the Pandi word from the Tamil word "Pallandi " meaning "king of Pallas". The name "Pandi' is a contraction of Pallandi which is a composite of two Tamil words "palla" and "andi". In Sangam Period, the word "andi" means " king" or "ruler. .

Another theory suggests that in Sangam Tamil lexicon the word Pandya means old country in contrast with Chola meaning new country, Chera meaning hill country and Pallava meaning branch in Sanskrit. The Chera, Chola and Pandya are the traditional Dravidian siblings and together with the Pallavas are the major Kings that ruled ancient Tamilakam

According to Tamil legends, the three brothers Cheran, Cholan and Pandyan ruled in common at Korkai. While Pandya remained at home, his two brothers Cheran and Cholan after a separation founded their own kingdoms in north and west


 * Wikipedia is not a reliable source (see WP:CIRCULAR for some further details) and sources from the British Raj era and earlier are also not reliable. - Sitush (talk) 16:25, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Sri Lanka
I have removed statements concerning the Pallar of Sri Lanka. They relied on a passing mention in one source from the 1960s and we have no way of knowing whether the community referred to therein was the same one as that found in Tamil Nadu or a different one that happens to bear the same name. We need to find a way to establish the connection, eg: a source that gives details of migration to or from Sri Lanka. - Sitush (talk) 08:47, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

Outdated source
Hi Mamallarnarashimavarman,

Your recent edits include content based on the Aiyangar source form 1914, which is per " British Raj era source" not reliable. Please find appropriate sources for these edits (read WP:HISTRS). Xenani (talk) 15:08, 13 June 2019 (UTC)

Devandira kula vellalar is not an SC caste. In tamilnadu devandira kula vellalar is only in all MBC,BC,SC
Devandira kula vellalar

Pallan (sc) Kudumban (sc) Moopan (bc) Kalladi (mbc) Devandira kulathan (sc) Pannadi (sc) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jagadeeshjj (talk • contribs) 03:40, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Devandira kula vellalar is not a dalit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jagadeeshjj (talk • contribs) 03:46, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Devandira kula vellalar is a caste that people lives in southern tamilnadu. Jagadeeshjj (talk) 03:47, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Leader John pandiyan Krsihnasamy — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jagadeeshjj (talk • contribs) 03:48, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Lord indiran is the god for all devandira kula vellalar people Jagadeeshjj (talk) 03:50, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Devandiran is a high caste — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jagadeeshjj (talk • contribs) 03:51, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

This people is an agriculturist Jagadeeshjj (talk) 03:52, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Devandiran is a people owner of an marutham land — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jagadeeshjj (talk • contribs) 03:53, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Mallar Jagadeeshjj (talk) 03:55, 10 February 2018 (UTC)


 * Unless you start providing reliable sources to allow us to verify your claims, I am going to revert any future comments that you make here. And please do not start a new section for every sentence - I've merged them. - Sitush (talk) 15:43, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Pallar is not velalar.velalar is a separate community which also has many subdivisions.velalars are land owners.pallars are agriculture labourers.so please donot mention pallar as velalar.do proper research about who is velalar and why they called as.thank you. Ronaldo Senthil (talk) 18:00, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Devendra Kulathan
Page needs to be created

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=L3YMAQAAMAAJ&q=devendra+kulathan&dq=devendra+kulathan&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjNwffKh8DhAhVr_XMBHWSLAu44ChDoAQgpMAE

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=COcwoYRCYhcC&pg=PA170&dq=devendra+kulathan&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiN_fjMhsDhAhUyXHwKHZ8bCfYQ6AEIJTAA#v=onepage&q=devendra%20kulathan&f=false

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&tbm=bks&q=inauthor:%22Anthropological+Survey+of+India%22&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwils5WfiMDhAhU1_XMBHVWnAEQQ9AgIVzAJ&biw=375&bih=559&dpr=2

https://books.google.com.my/books?id=Js0XAAAAMAAJ&q=devendra+kulathan&dq=devendra+kulathan&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwils5WfiMDhAhU1_XMBHVWnAEQQ6AEIRTAG Mamallarnarashimavarman (talk) 08:22, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

What's the reason? What the meaning of Velalar? What's the difference between Vellalar & Velalar? So who are the Velalar if they are not? Mamallarnarashimavarman (talk) 10:19, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 January 2021
The article does not mention any reference to Devendra Kula Velalar. These communities are now widely referenced that way and an official recognition is sought. 167.104.7.3 (talk) 17:38, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. [[User:Eggishorn|Eggishorn ]] (talk) (contrib) 22:13, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Pallar history
2409:4072:68B:D958:0:0:2A2A:40A4 (talk) 08:45, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ◢  Ganbaruby!   (Say hi!) 08:54, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

== Pallar isn't dailt community. Pallar or Mallar or Deventhira kula vellar was land owners. Other then dailt has classed in seven habitats. Deventhira kula cellular was not dalit habitat. In case of minority in any village had violent in caste districts. Please remove the pallar was dailt. ==

Pallar isn't dailt community. Pallar or Mallar or Deventhira kula vellar was land owners. Other then dailt has classed in seven habitats. Deventhira kula velalar was not dalit habitat. In case of minority in any village had violent in caste districts. Please remove the pallar was dailt. Kumarkudumban (talk) 20:57, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 May 2021
Kumarkudumban (talk) 20:46, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Edit this page Kumarkudumban (talk) 20:47, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.  Bsoyka  ( talk &middot;  contribs ) 21:16, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 May 2021
Kumarkudumban (talk) 21:01, 21 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.  Bsoyka  ( talk &middot;  contribs ) 21:18, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 May 2021 (2)
International kudumbar federation (talk) 21:14, 21 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.  Bsoyka  ( talk &middot;  contribs ) 21:18, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 July 2021
Mallarnaadu (talk) 04:12, 27 July 2021 (UTC) Pallar is a agriculture working community in Tamilnadu and they are Dalits. Allahabad High.

Thanks Mallarnadu
 * as Wikipedia is not censored, unless the source itself does not mention that pallar is the domint Dalit community of southern Tamil Nadu, which I can't verify as the second source is paywalled. melecie   t  06:20, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 July 2021
Mallarnaadu (talk) 11:08, 30 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:16, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

S
L 37.111.11.208 (talk) 02:43, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

Content removals
Hello @MPCBE, please explain what you were trying to do here and here. - SUN EYE 1  16:46, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

And the subcaste was officially merged with Devendrakula Velalar, so two separate artciles for same topic is necessary. So i attempted for a REDIRECT by adding the source for the official merge and clarification. I request you for the redirect and merger with Devendrakula Velalar. Moreover wikipedia is not dictionary to hold multiple artciles for a particular topic -MPCBE 17:35, 8 May 2022 (UTC) Blocked sock -  SUN EYE 1  16:42, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I asked why were you removing sourced content. This still seems to be a WP:COMMONNAME. I know very little about the name change of the community but the article says, "...however their original caste name remains valid and they are still part of the Scheduled Caste list.". If the name is still valid, you are not supposed to remove it. - SUN EYE 1  19:11, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Proposed merge of Devendrakula Velalar with Pallar
The article regarding Pallar should be merged with Devendrakula Velalar. Since it is officially merged with the latter one.MPCBE (talk) 20:01, 23 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Merge.The article regarding Pallar should be merged with Devendrakula Velalar, since wikipedia is not dictionary to have multiple articles for a specific content. Moreover after been official merger it's fine to merge it in wikipedia.Ccmtt12345 (talk) Blocked sock -  SUN EYE 1  16:42, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

The Marava myth
The Udayars and the Kallars together with the Pallars do not constitute the Marava castes, as claimed in the page. Udayar is a title used by members of the Parkavakulam community, while Kallars and Maravars are two of the three castes in the Mukkulathor confederacy. There is no relation between these 4 communities (other than the Kallars and Maravars being a part of Mukkulathor). The book used as a citation for this claim is untrustworthy at best and outright false at worst. 2405:204:578A:98BB:EC00:666:5C1D:CDC8 (talk) 12:17, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

Caste promotion
Ping @Sitush. Please look at this edit 1. When did Dalits become Kshatriya?

I don't think these 2 accounts (Worldgiant and Vendan2211) here for WP:HERE. Contributions of these accounts take pallars into next level in the history. Please add this article to your watchlist. Kautilyapundit (talk) 04:52, 24 August 2023 (UTC)