Talk:Palmistry

Hand shapes
The article says that hand shapes are divided into four or ten shapes, and then goes on to talk about the four hand shapes, without any reference or elucidation on the ten. Is there actually a system of ten hand shape groups? I hadn't heard anything about that before, but if there is, that part of the article could really use a reference.

Right Hand
If we're to read the dominant hand and most of us are righties, why is the diagram of a left hand?

~Because the sinistral are, if the brain hemisphere heuristic works, better at understanding palmistry than righties.

NPOV tag
I added the NPOV tag because this article is a disgrace. Anyone coming to read this would think that it's 100% completely real and legit and scientific even. It needs massive improvement. DreamGuy 15:48, 20 November 2005 (UTC)


 * It exists. We can describe it. Do you actually understand that an encyclopedia consists of descriptions of things and not your opinion about them? Catherineyronwode (talk) 20:52, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

NPOV?
"Anyone coming to read this would think that it's 100% completely real and legit and scientific even." -DreamGuy

"There has been little widely accepted research verifying palmistry's accuracy as a system of analysis." -The Article

I think that one line from the article negates your entire arguement. (unsigned, but by User:Boringraindrop)


 * You can't take one weak sounding sentence out of an entire super long article treating it as real and try to claim that this little itty bitty mention -- especially when it's contradicted by other statements claiming scientific basis -- somehow all by itself undoes the incredibly biased rest of the article. DreamGuy 22:56, 21 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I contributed a large portion of the information in this article, and I appreciate the feedback that the scientific/skeptic side of the equation was not adequately represented. I have tried to go back and alter the tone of the article to reflect the fact that the information contained in the article represents the opinions of practitioners and has not been scientifically examined with any corroborative result.  I added some links to sites with opposing perspectives, as well.


 * I do hope that this brings more neutrality to the article. I would appreciate hearing from DreamGuy about whether or not these edits are an improvement.


 * TariRocks 18:27, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

RuSTy1989 22:49, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * DreamGuy is right... this is far to swung in the direction of this actually being true...

Not for us to judge if it's true or not. That's what NPOV means in the first place. Just say "it claims to do this and that" and people can make up their own mind. Freelove1977 (talk) 19:17, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Pictures
Please could somebody who knows about these things put a picture on this page to illustrate the lines? Otherwise from the text descriptions you're just left guessing. 193.129.65.37 06:45, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Here is an image with Spanish descriptions of the lines: (1) http://magiamania.com/2009/09/24/interpretar-las-rayas-de-la-mano/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.139.207.29 (talk) 15:30, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll second that motion, and with the additional request that the names of the lines be given. Quick glances at source material shows a wide variety of names for different lines, even within the Renaissance.  Linea vitalis seems to be the Life line, which seems to correspond to modern medicine's nomenclature.  The mounds seem to be montes (singular: mons), but they especially differ in specific name according to the author consulted.  One man's Mons Veneris may be another's Mons Solis.  Still, some general consensus should have been achieved after hundreds of years, and a general guide with the caveat of variance by specific author might be given with a general reference.  Perhaps someone skilled in anatomy and physiology might be able to contribute to the article?


 * I think a lot of the variations referenced above are dictated by the language of the source text. The examples listed are Latin and French translations of the English names listed in the article. Tari 20:27, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

The psychology "research" cited
The research cited looks dubious. If it's not from a peer-reviewed journal, then nobody is checking up on it, and the author can say whatever he feels like. It really should not be counted as credible scientific research.

Unfortunately, peer reviewed journal are (very nearly) never available to the public for free. Either you can go to the library of a university and, from their computers, access the articles via the university's paid account; Or you can try www.scholar.google.com. On Google Scholar, often the abstract will give you the basic results of the experiment, and sometimes you'll even get lucky and find the full text for free.

The reason I looked at the research to begin with was that the following sentence worried me: "Although some interesting correlations have been found, these were usually not considered very significant." Psychologists use the word "significant" in the statistical sense - they say that findings are significant when there is <.05 probability that they are due to chance, given the sample size. The phrase "very significant" uses the word "significant" in the everyday sense, since it does not make sense to say "very" when you are talking about statistical significance. So I'm left wondering -- were the results statistically significant or weren't they?

The 2nd of the 3 paragraphs under the heading "Science and Skeptics" should be taken out until we can get some real, peer-reviewed research on the topic. I don't want to snip it based solely on my opinion, but if someone else agrees, then maybe they should go ahead and take it out.

I have removed all of the unsupported claims in the science and skeptics section. If someone wants to put them back in they need to provide citations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.255.116.102 (talk) 02:15, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

And so we're back to the beginning. There was a messy section of research, science, and criticism, but user "Steven J. Anderson" removed it all in edit 22:45, 22 November 2011‎, calling it "original research." I would like to debate that claim. The main issue here is that investigating fortune telling is not a major pursuit of peer-reviewed science. What we are left with are papers that investigate whether traits used in palmistry, such as prominence of certain features, creases, digit lengths and ratios, can be used in any manner for predictions of the bearer's health, personality, or proclivities. In that regard, the research cited (removed as OR) was not original research, nor was it irrelevant to the topic. It does need cleanup and editing, however. Can we have any sort of consensus on which papers might best fit this altogether mess of an article? Ruxda (talk) 07:04, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Bible Misquote
Should we bring to life the bible misquotation of Job 37:7 or Proverbs 3:16?

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/palm.htm

The quotes are clearly taken out of context. Job 37:7 ("sealeth up the hand of every man: that all men may know his work") refers to the lord binding the hands of the people, i.e. stop them from working in the winter to witness the lord's work, while Proverbs 3:16 ("length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour") was a simple colloqialism.

Removed quote from Proverbs. Irrelevant and taken out of context. Original context can be read here: (Proverbs 3) Beginning with the verse : "My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments"

It is ironic that one would quote from this book to promote or in any way be related to Palmistry as the bible condemns such actions (often to the point of death...)

one of many exaples would be (Ezek. 13) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hoaw (talk • contribs) 13:24, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Request re-write of Hand Shape And Character
Could we get a re-write on at least the start of the Hand Shape And Character. It doesn't seem to match the tone of the rest of the article.

(Oh and I added a wikilink to phrenology since it's also a discipline relating to reading character traits from physiological elements)

Elaverick 16:25, 16 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I re-wrote this section, trying to reduce bias, maintain consistent tone, and make the information more clear. I scrapped most of the original contribution because it seemed easier to start from scratch than to edit; I meant no disrespect by that, and have preserved the original below if people feel there is useful information that could be worked back in - or if the original seems more informative than the rewrite. Tari 01:09, 23 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The one who hears of chirology or palmistry mostly thinks of lines. Therefore it may be very surprising, that it all begins by analysing the shape of the hand. It tells about the constitution and the temperament. Sometimes it is more difficult to interpret it than to read the lines. It requires a lot of experience and hand analysts often tried to find an appropriate system of classification. The breadth and the length of the hand gives us a first and important indication.

The length connects the bottom with the top, the heaviness with the lightness. It is a symbol of the polarity between matter and spirit, as well as for the development of the consciousness.
 * The breadth shows us the abundance of the substance. It is a symbol of the concrete, material being on earth and it often has to do with meetings. A broad hand supports our force of creation.


 * If you complement this observation with the astrological elements, you’ll get four categories of hands:

The slender, lightweight hand stands for the air. The similar, less matter pointed fire, expresses himself mainly by a strong thumb, striking contours and sharp lines.
 * The full, broad and heavy hand stands for the influences of earth and water.


 * The royal-Saxon doctor Carl Gustav Carus’s well known system of the 19th century is also based on these four elements. As a humanist he was very familiar with the Greek doctrine of temperament. He designed a model of four hand shapes which has been developed further on by the German astropalmist Manfred Magg (Hand And Horoscope). Dr. Carus arranged the variety in the following basic shapes:


 * The elementary earth hand awakens the impression of heaviness. This depends above all on the big, thick and hard palm. The fingers are short and strong, the thumb is bulky. The palm shows few clear lines. The life and heart lines are red and strong and the head line is short and straight. The fate line mostly rises up to the middle finger as a deep furrow. That suggests a realistic and material orientated, earthly nature.


 * The strong fire hand has striking edges. It makes a muscular tensed impression. The thumb is big and its mount full developed. The strong fingers mostly spread themselves to the top, like spatulas or frog fingers. The picture of the lines are similar to earth hand. Sometimes several deep sharpened lines rise up from the root of the hand to the fingers. This all speaks for a strong will power, that likes movement. The person prefers working independently, because he likes to fix his own tempo.


 * The sensitive water hand is to be found mainly with women. Sometimes it is smaller, narrower and more finely built than the prior hands. Its delicate and soft skin reveals much more permeability against the impressions of the surrounding. It reacts very sensitively to this. The main features of the shape are the rounded courses of the lines, specially the head line, that bends down to the mount of Moon.


 * The psychic or mental air hand isn’t very broad and big. Beside the slender palm, the fine, long and thin fingers stand out. The knuckles hardly stand out. The fine and numerous lines show a differentiated picture. They mark a life with a lot of events and experiences. This kind of hand points to a refined, nervous organisation and to an aesthetic or spiritual mentality.


 * On base of this patterns it is easy to determine the dominant element and temperament in your hand (Dominant Planets In Hand And Horoscope).


 * ((preserving the original))Tari 01:09, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

It's kind of silly to explain palms like this in a single page because of the different schools. I have a business reading palms and I use a very different Indian method because my dad is from Bangalore. In our school of palmistry the head and heart lines are switched. You might want to make it clearer that this isn't the only way to do it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.172.186.128 (talk) 15:38, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

In that case, why not list the schools there are and include links to separate articles on them where available? Freelove1977 (talk) 19:21, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Pythagoras
The very famous philosopher and mystic, Pythagoras, is said to have played a part in the massive spread and interest in palm reading. He is best known as the "Father of Numbers". In his book entitled Physiognomy & Palmistry, he discusses palm reading and places the practices roots back to 497 B.C.

This is ridiculous for a number of reasons. First of all, the sentence is lifted wholesale from the online palmreading(!) page it cites as a reference. At the very least it should be in quotes as not to be plagiarism. The tone is ludicrous: "the very famous philosopher and mystic", there are gramatical errors.

But most of all, the sentence is just plain wrong. Pythagoras didn't write any "books" or iof he did, none survived, everything known about Pythagors is second hand tradition. These non-existant books certainly couldn't be used to "date" the practice of palimstry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by A2800276 (talk • contribs) 10:35, 1 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Why are there no surviving ancient European texts on palmistry? One reason might be the powers of censorship and book-burning given to the Christian church after their religion was made official by Constantine, together with the later ban (on pain of death) on teaching by non-Christians. These sufficed to eradicate all knowledge of the Egyptian, Babylonian and Etruscan languages, so it is not surprising that texts on the the "seven forbidden arts" failed to survive. Some Chinese emperors did the same thing, and foreign missionaries carried on this work into the nineteenth century. NRPanikker (talk) 00:25, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

move to palmistry
Palmistry is intuitive and widely used. Google search says 92k results for Chiromancy, 330k results for "palm reading" and 1.06 million for palmistry. So moving article to Palmistry would be appropriate. Agel to alive (talk) 09:35, 15 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Chiromancy doesn't even there in english dictionary of firefox browser, while palmistry is there. If there is no response in talk page i will list it in "Requested Moves". Thanks. Agel to alive (talk) 07:23, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I have listed move request in Requested moves, if once moved by admin, the action can be reverted by normal users. That is the article can be moved back to Chiromancy from Palmistry by normal user. Agel to alive (talk) 08:09, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Lash of Thanatos
Why is there nothing here about the Lash of Thanatos? Lampman (talk) 01:58, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

5,000 YA?!
This article claims that Valmiki wrote a book about palmistry 5,000 years ago. The article on Valmiki, however, says he lived in 400 BCE, which by my math is 2,400 years ago. 5,000 years would have Valmiki writing his book just about the time writing was being invented in Sumeria, about a thousand miles from where Valmiki lived.

The claim about China 3,000 years ago is also dubious... I see it's already been flagged for citation.

I am removing these clearly inflated numbers, though I will leave the supposed progression from Valmiki to China to Greece. (I am skeptical of that progression as well, but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt.) 67.59.53.158 Dausuul (talk) 12:48, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

citation needed
The science and criticism section says this...There has been little widely accepted research verifying palmistry's accuracy as a system of character analysis, and so far no conclusive evidence has been provided to support a connection between the lines of the palm and a person's character beyond what could be deduced from analyzing that the person suffered from a chromosomal disorder or belonged to a certain statistical group based on their digit ratio. No conclusive data have yet been found to support the claims made by hand readers with respect to life expectancy or personality type.

This is fine but really needs some sort of citation. When you call something quackery, it may be very true but needs some sort of citation.

Suomi Finland 2009 (talk) 16:42, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Greek language spelling
The modern Greek word for "hand" is "χέρι". It is of neuter gender therefore should be preceded by the proper article "το". In the ancient Greek language, the same word is "χείρ" which is of feminine gender and should be preceded by the article "η".

Criticism section lacking
I could not help but notice that this article is woefully bereft of criticisms of palmistry. Although I am in support of its practice, this seems unfairly slanted. Perhaps if somebody could find a bit more, maybe on the topic of religious controversy and taboo, it would seem fairer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.112.125.143 (talk) 02:31, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Dire need for balanced POV
The way the article reads now, it would appear as if only a small minority of skeptics object to chiromancy claims. Chiromancy/palmistry is a pseudoscience, at best, and the article desperately needs revisions to make the POV more neutral.

In anticipation of a request for citations supporting my assertion of palmistry's wide perception as pseudoscience, here is the first result from a cursory search through peer-reviewed literature for 'palmistry'. http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09500690050166724 --Genya Avocado (talk) 19:09, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

removing POV tag with no active discussion per Template:POV
I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:
 * This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:
 * There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
 * It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given
 * In the absence of any discussion, or if the discussion has become dormant.

Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 12:10, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Questioning the validity of palmistry
What shocks me about this article is the way that this topic (palmistry) has been shamelessly analyzed and presented as though it were an article about something proven and concrete, like medicine, or material science. It is not. The fact that palmistry is of debatable value, that there is absolutely no scientific evidence to support the conclusions of palmistry, or that this is merely a technique based on the two principles of probability and human weakness and gullibility should have been clearly highlighted. Instead the article is an elucidation on things like the mounds and lines of the hand and an elaboration of the techniques and intricacies of palmistry. There is a small section, about 3 lines, of criticism, and appears to have been put in, apologetically, by somebody whose head is firmly screwed on his / her shoulders. The references are all books or resources about palmistry, none questioning the very validity of this unproven technique. All in all, this article is a biased one written by, and further edited by promoters and believers of palmistry. That is not too great a surprise, as most of the resources one can randomly find on the internet talk about palmistry, rather than attack this technique with hard hitting questions. This article is simply an extension of that. Artaxerxes07 (talk) 01:57, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Sooooo.... it needs editors with a neutral POV to add properly referenced criticism of the practice. Feel free - that's how Wikipedia works. Fiddlersmouth (talk) 23:50, 28 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I came here because I had heard from a credible source that looking at palms is used as a valid medical diagnostic tool - not to predict the future. Apparently some medical conditions show up there. But I have not been able to find it here or in the German section, wouldn't know how it's called. The source has made me curious and I hope somebody will know more about that - and post it here. 121.209.56.202 (talk) 03:04, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

Criticism section not required
Information critical of palmistry should be spread throughout the article. We should take the stance that since palmstry is obvious pseudo-science, information critical of its claims should be in every part of the article (balanced sourced and within reason) See faq on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:HomeopathyEdaham (talk) 03:44, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Markings
Palmistry markings are positive or negative interruptions and blockages in the normal flow of the palm lines, mounts and fingers. They can indicate warnings of difficulties, separations, traumatic events or health problems. Some markings may indicate a period of recovery, problem resolution, or an emotional healing period. Their meanings are dependent upon where they are located on the palm, as each area on the palm represents a different part of your life. Listed below are the important markings that can appear on the palm of the hand:

Breaks going toward the thumb can indicate a new direction in a career. Breaks going in the upward direction toward the edges of the hand suggest an unexpected journey. If they are pointing to the base of the palm this can mean an unexpected turn in your daily routine. These breaks can indicate that there is an interruption in one’s normal flow of energy or signify a redirection in one’s life path.

Chains represent the many different obstacles one may face in life. They can signify a difficult or not so privileged upbringing. Also, they may relate to experiences in a person’s love life. Chains are also representative of times of indecisiveness or they can indicate problems in the area of health. The length of the chain correlates to the duration of time that all of these issues may last.

Crosses are an indication of long-lasting problems. They also represent changes in one’s life. Depending on where they appear on the palm, they can be an indication of positive or negative changes. They may represent outside influences that may be causing stress. They can be indicators of how one is handling their spiritual side of life and mental state of being.

Dots are not always well pronounced on the palm because they can be very tiny. Dots can represent concerns about ill health, relationships or another type of experience. They can also represent significant and monumental events that have created crisis in a person’s life or they might be warning signs of danger in an individual’s life path. Dots have been known to disappear when unfortunate circumstances and issues are solved.

Grilles appear most often on the mounts. They signify negative indications and represent problems and adjustments. A grille on any part of the palm disperses energy. A grille may represent bewilderment and insecurity at times in one’s life. Grilles signify interruptions in a person’s advancement.

Islands indicate interruptions in life that are not favorable. Usually, they indicate stressful periods, either brought on by a career or someone causing one mental stress. They can also indicate fearfulness and weakness in health, in particular, inherited heart disease or a disturbance of one’s energy. It is important to look closely at the island to be sure that it does end and the lines continue.

The letter “M” in palmistry is a rare but recognized marking. It is when the major lines cross over in the center of the palm. It is formed by the heart line, head line and life line. This is believed to be good fortune bestowed on the individual. Also, it is an indication of a person with good intuition. People who have this marking are also known to be trustworthy, and they make generally good companions and business associates.

Squares are usually a positive sign on the palm and indicate protection, especially when they appear around line breaks. They can symbolize good luck from outside forces, for example, one’s guardian angel. At times, a square can represent a time of being boxed in or imprisonment if it rests on a line that has no break in it.

Stars on the palm usually indicate success and good fortune in the area they appear. However, a star appearing on the life line can represent turmoil. If a star is found at the end of a line, it can indicate fame, notoriety and great accomplishments. It can also indicate success in one’s relationships. When found in some areas, the star can signify misfortune. It can also signify emotional problems and lack of confidence in one’s career.

Tassels, also known as frayed lines, when found on the palm indicate confusion or chaos about a particular situation or problem. They can also indicate a physical, emotional or spiritual decline. It is often found at the end of the life line as an individual ages.

Transverse markings are negative symbols. They take away the strength and deplete the positive energy of the line or mount they are found on. They create obstacles wherever they appear. It may also indicate that an individual may be using their skills for ill intentions.

Triangles are very lucky markings and indicate success. They signify that the individual has an ability to analyze situations effectively and has the brainpower to accomplish many things. When they appear on specific lines, they strengthen the qualities of that line. They can also be symbolic of someone who is spiritual or psychic.

A trident on the palm is a very lucky marking. It always increases the qualities of the lines or mounts it appears on. It can even have a positive effect on the neighboring mounts. It is believed to bring good fortune in threes and the person will be happy, healthy and wealthy in life.

The upward or branched lines can indicate that an individual has overcome some of life’s roadblocks through his or her own determination. They indicate someone who will be successful and achieve their goals. They can also indicate hopefulness and a good outlook on life. There is an idealistic and positive attitude associated with these lines.

The downward or branched lines can represent times in which a situation has gotten out of control for the person. They can indicate pessimism, unhappiness, negative energy and losses. They can also signify someone who does not think in a positive way. Depending from which line the downward lines appear it lessens the strength of that line and drains its energy.

Sources: Palmistry Markings and Meanings. (n.d.). Retrieved October 19, 2020, from https://psychiclibrary.com/palmistry-markings-meanings/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hope.seevers2021 (talk • contribs) 23:14, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Date of birth 8 February 1961
Name Naghma tahir what about feeture 2400:ADC1:10C:6700:4975:227D:DAC9:7210 (talk) 11:29, 27 April 2024 (UTC)