Talk:Palms, Los Angeles

Potential Expo Line routes
Seeing the ongoing construction work at least once or twice a week tells me the Expo Line will be following the more northerly route of the historic right-of-way. I keep abreast of Metro's projects and very much doubt there are plans for a loop via Venice and Overland. I think the inset picture showing this should be removed, but I'd like to hear some feedback on this before doing so.Pithecanthropus4152 (talk) 01:40, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

South Asians
Palms is also noted for having a large number of South Asian residents, and contains a number of Indian and Pakistani restaurants and one of the few Shia mosques in Los Angeles County.

Source and limitation for census figures?
I'm just wondering what source was used for the census figures and what were the boundaries. Do the figures include Westside Village?

Where is the Shia mosque?
Is this Shia mosque the same one that is at the Iman Center? If so, the two facts should be combined.

Rezoning
The tax base cultivation rezoning of the 1960s is quite familiar to the Westside natives and USC planning faculty with whom I've spoken. The easiest article to find on a related matter is here. Essentially, the assessment formula was changed such that property tax was based on the value of the land given the underlying zoning, rather than the value of improvements. Bump a parcel up from R1.5 to R3, and all of the sudden you can take a whole hell of a lot more tax from a property. This happened all over Los Angeles and in some of its suburbs in the '60s.--Slightlyslack 06:14, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Dead link
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!


 * http://www.palmsvillagesun.info/WPA_Map.html
 * In Palms, Los Angeles, California on Sun Jul 16 21:27:27 2006, 404 Not Found
 * In Palms, Los Angeles, California on Mon Jul 17 17:37:46 2006, 404 Not Found
 * In Palms, Los Angeles, California on Thu Jul 27 01:19:12 2006, 404 Not Found

maru  (talk)  contribs 05:19, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Snoop Dogg reference
In editing this page about a year or so ago I maintained the reference to the Snoop Dogg episode that came from an early version, not wanting to cut out any facts relating to Palms, no matter how sordid. Nevertheless, I agree that the reference strays from the topic of the article and, unless there is objection, I will omit it in approximately one week. GeorgeLouis 19:36, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Recent questionable edits . ..
Some recent edits are questionable, and I am either reverting them or changing them. They particularly refer to census figures; no sources are given for the edits. In particular, the census usually gives figures for Caucasians, which may also include white Hispanics. Without a source, the edits can be challenged and removed. Sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 07:36, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Most Hispanics in Palms are overwhelmingly Mexican-American. Some of the older generation of Mexicans will call themselves Caucasian as do the Cubans, but for those who claim Latino or Hispanic, they will almost certainly be of Mexican origin as the vast majority of Spanish-surnamed people in California are Mexican-American. In fact, Hispanic as a classification is very vague and ambiguous. Most Mexicans have nothing in common with Cubans, Dominicans, Puerto Ricans. The article needs to specify Mexicans as they are the original residents of Palms. I can remember in the 1960's and 1970's, all the single-dwelling houses in Palms were owned by second-generation Mexican-Americans. The unique and rich Mexican identity has been swallowed up by the all-encompassing "Hispanic" category.jeanne (talk) 14:59, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Feel free to add this information if it can be pinned to a good source. Sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 23:05, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I have been looking for a source which specifies Mexicans instead of the generic Hispanic but to no avail. I think you're right to just leave it at Hispanic seeing as some Mexicans do identify as white. For instance, I went to school with a Mexican-American girl who called herself white Caucasian, which she was. She lived in Venice and not Palms, but one should play it safe and leave the article as it stands. Sorry if I intruded. I can be impulsive on occasion. I just have a deep admiration for Mexican culture and people.jeanne (talk) 12:23, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, I guess we have to go with the U.S. Census, which is strict about the way that ethnic groups are identified. See Race_and_ethnicity_in_the_United_States_Census. Sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 14:45, 13 June 2008 (UTC) - How is it possible for Palms to be the oldest neighborhood of Los Angeles? The Historic Core and Plaza neighborhood have to be older. Pithecanthropus (talk) 06:08, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Should be "the oldest neighborhood outside of Downtown." GeorgeLouis (talk) 00:27, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Chippendales
The article doesn't mention Chippendales. It was said to have been the first male strip club in the Los Angeles area. It opened around 1978. The building used to be a disco called "Destiny Two". Chippendales was located on Overland Avenue and McCune, close to Venice Boulevard. In 1979, it would be packed with women. I recall groups of women angd girls waiting outside to get in. The article needs to mention Chippendales.jeanne (talk) 12:29, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * There is no mention in the WikiP article on Chippendales of the exact address of the club, A Google search shows that it might have been the Baraban.Com Cafe at 3739 Overland Ave. Most recently that building has been an adult day-care center. It is now empty.  If you have further information, please add it. Sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 15:11, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I added it with a source. I hope it looks ok but unfortunately I cannot find an exact date of it's opening. I don't remember if it opened in late 1978 or early 1979. jeanne (talk) 05:26, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I have found a date- it was 1979 so I'll add it. Thank you for your help and advice.05:32, 14 June 2008 (UTC)jeanne (talk)

Not sure if the Barbacan is actually there now. I will take a look. Sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 07:24, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Robertson Blvd.
Would Robertson Blvd. count as a Major Thoroughfare. According to the neighborhood boundaries Palms does go to Robertson Blvd. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.94.89.42 (talk) 03:15, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It would count as a major thoroughfare. In the old days Robertson was considered a major north-south street connecting Palms with areas to the north. Nowadays it is debatable whether it is in Palms or in SoRo. GeorgeLouis (talk) 00:29, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

The Palms
Los Angeles and Independence Railroad maps show the depot in the area (from 1875) was called "Bay View Station" prior to 1886. Also, this article mentions the area was called Ballona. So it seems sometime prior to 1886, some developers planted a large stand of palm trees near the depot. It seems conceivable that people on the line started asking to stop at "the palms" as they were probably the tallest thing in the area at that time and prominent. The station name was changed to "The Palms" on maps after 1886 and continued to be that name through conversion to trolleys around 1908 and the closure of the PE line in 1953.

On maps of the area (even the ones cited here) the area is named "The Palms." When did it become simply "Palms"? Lexlex (talk) 04:45, 30 November 2011 (UTC)


 * The answers are: (1) We do not really know when the palm trees were planted, before or after the area was platted. In one of the original newspaper sources (prior to my writing the book), mention is made of some palm trees near the Saenz grocery (about Washington and Motor, if I remember correctly), but nowhere else. In my opinion, it is likely the trees were planted after the decision was made to subdivide, and that surmise provided the imaginary conversation on page 7 of the book. But, as I say, we do not really know, so it is important not to jump to unsourced conclusions. (2) The electoral district was called "Ballona" (there is a source), presumably because the area had been part of Rancho La Ballona. I suppose everbody referred to the whole area as "Ballona" as well. As I remember, the adjective "The" was dropped from Palms pretty early in the 20th Century, 1907 or thereabouts. Sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 05:18, 30 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Since writing the above, I've found the closest-in-date source for the planting of the palms. A newspaper reporter wrote in 1887 or thereabouts that there were only two of them and they were planted after the station was built. I've left a note to that effect at the bottom of the article, and you can read the whole passage in the source. GeorgeLouis (talk) 16:54, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Also check this picture out. It's dated on this site as 1938, but unless these guys were doing some sort of recreation, the collars on the men look more turn of the century than that. I'd say early, early 1900's. You will note that the station sign says only "Palms" - now I'm confused. :S Do you have a source for this picture? I'll try and get it so I can use on Wikipedia. It may be old enough to use without a problem. Lexlex (talk) 17:50, 2 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm familiar with that photo. The 1938 railroad group was dressed up in period costume for some reason that escapes me now. There's really no sense in adding the photo to the article because some eager Administrator will delete it one the basis that it is not in the Public Domain and there are plenty of other pix of the station. GeorgeLouis (talk) 19:05, 4 December 2011 (UTC)


 * In a 1904 guidebook for tourists the community and railroad station are still referred to The Palms, stating that this name was inspired by the numerous "large palms which dot the region for quite a distance from the Southern Pacific Depot." On this P.E. system map published sixteen years later, it's simply Palms. So it makes sense that the designation in the 1938 photo would be the same. Pithecanthropus4152 (talk) 04:27, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Palm Villa, Palms Villa, or Villa Hotel location?
I added a mention of this late 19th Century to early 20th Century hotel, but despite extensively poring over available city directories, guidebooks, newspaper databases and other contemporaneous materials, I have found absolutely nil on its precise location. Sources of the day tell us merely that it was in Palms and leave it at that; presumably, a century ago, it was expected that it would somehow be obvious to arriving visitors, or perhaps they would ask the station agent. Articles in the L.A. Times suggest that it was a substantial brick building of more than one story, and was large enough that ground-floor space could be rented out to business tenants. One would assume that it must have stood somewhere near the intersection of National and Motor, then as now the main commercial district. However, on the 1910 Sanborn map of the area, I find no building large enough to be a hotel much less an explicit mention of one. Judging from how often the hotels of the day boasted that they were "ABSOLUTELY FIREPROOF", we can probably conclude that in actuality they were notorious firetraps. And this makes it all the stranger it's not on the Sanborn map, which existed to document fire risks for insurance underwriters.

If anyone can provide more information than this please let us know.Pithecanthropus4152 (talk) 06:35, 8 November 2014 (UTC)