Talk:Panathinaikos F.C.

Rules of engagement
Paidia. What kind of battlefield is this? Everybody seems to have gone crazy here.

For the time being, I'd like to install a few clear rules of engagement:


 * 1) No edits without edit summaries
 * 2) No anonymous editing - if you want to participate regularly, get yourself a username
 * 3) Absolutely zero tolerance against revert warring
 * 4) No treating other people's edits as "vandalism" when they are not (read it)

People who misbehave will be topic-banned from all football-related articles. Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:05, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Coaches section
I think some changes are needed. Too many dates and no exact reference, how do we know they're correct. I will edit this section and I think a "Selected former coaches" format would be a better.--Goldimit (talk) 15:34, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Panathinaikos Badge image
We have to find a new image for Panathinaikos' badge, one like and  one, only in reduced size like. This way it will look better than the image that is currently in use.Goldimit (talk) 00:50, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I changed the badge image, the new one doesn't have that white square background around the circle. Credits to bilhs. Goldimit (talk) 15:35, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

The previous image was incorrect as it was missing the umlaut over the I. I've uploaded an SVG graphic of the correct emblem, instead. Dragases (talk) 05:43, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

The image used is still not the official club logo, the shamrock is wrong and the letter font is different too, someone has to find and upload the official logo. Deletend (talk) 11:11, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

History Section
I have been collecting information, references, photos etc. in order to make the history section of this article better, more informative and CORRECT. Actually the amount of info i managed to find is too large and it would still be large when it's done and wikified! I've noticed that in some football clubs' feature articles they keep the history section of the main article relatively short and instead new articles containing large amounts of info are created and are presented as "More details on the topic". I think I'm gonna do the same but I have some questions i'd like to address: I will have the history section edited soon, I'm sure that with your help it will be improved. Thanks in advance! Goldimit (talk) 17:32, 27 March 2008 (UTC) I did itGoldimit (talk) 22:57, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) How do you know when an article has excessive content and should be split in two? If i create an article under the title "History of Panathinaikos FC", can I rename it afterwards to e.g. "History of Panathinaikos FC until 1959" and place the remaining in a new article named e.g. "History of Panathinaikos FC from 1959 to present day"?
 * 2) Is there a guide that could help someone when he tries to reduce a 20-30 paragraphs text to just 5 or 10? I know it's subjective but I want to be sure! There are things now in the history section that are either false or unimportant, such as the role of Marinakis and the club's IFFHS award.
 * 3) Until the full history of the club is added on wikipedia, the history section of this article will be short and not very informative. Is that wrong?
 * 4) Is there a date when the semiprotection will end? I wish it stays this way for a couple of months because the history section is the most vandalism-attractive section.

Guys, just a proposal. Panathinaikos is more than football. Shouldn' t we create a general reference for the club and include there this site as well as a ref to the basket club and so on? I believe the world needs to know about the basket club of pao —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.49.49.34 (talk) 20:40, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Ownership and Supporters issues
First of all I would like to make clear that I don't go to Leoforos, I was in Pedion Areos on 13 April and I support the ownership's recent announcement. It has to be clear that there's a big difference between what's encyclopedic knowledge and what's news. I agree that this year's state of Panathinaikos has to be included in the article but it has to be done in a proper manner. You can't just add a section called "Centenary Crisis"! I think the right way to do it is by adding an ownership and a supporters section. PEK and ownership's changes should be added in the first and the disagreement of Eniaios Foreas Syndesmon Gate 13 with Jigger and the 13 April march should be added in the latter.

PS.If someone doesn't know what a reference mean he should search it in wikipedia before adding links. Goldimit (talk) 08:00, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

selected coaches..?
Why exactly are Ščasný and Backe in the selected coaches section? They didnt win anythind and lasted one and half a year respectively. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Papanixtas (talk • contribs) 16:58, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
 * hm, I've renamed the whole section so the title seems right.-- KaragouniS : Chat  19:40, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Helder Postiga
Why have you written that Postiga transfered to Sporting Lisbon? He was on loan to Panathinaikos from Porto and after he returned to porto he was transfered to Sporting Lisbon. Sergiogr (talk) 13:55, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Papadopoulos & Nasief Morris
They have NOT been released from the club, at least not yet. They just have been told to look for a new team since they are not needed by the team. If and when they actually tranfer to another team or they are actually released we should then change the squad. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.74.159.253 (talk) 20:29, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

I can't agree more. Sergiogr (talk) 21:00, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Panathinaikos F.C. season 2008-09 updating
Hey guys, can somebody help me to update the page (especially the player apps/gls table)? I can't do it whole by myself, so if someone is interested to help, I would be grateful :) -- KaragouniS : Chat  11:40, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

2nd most successful club
Since Panathinaikos is 52nd in these years (http://www.iffhs.de/?3d4d443d0b803e8b40384c00205fdcdc3bfcdc0aec70aeedbe1a) and Olympiakos 75th, how is Panathinaikos 2nd most successful? Where? In Greek Leagues, European Leagues?? Totally random, so i had it removed —Preceding unsigned comment added by J.Para (talk • contribs) 16:06, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

GARAY AND MARADONA ARE IN THE TEAM ROSTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.30.69.92 (talk) 14:10, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Most important moments of Panathinaikos FC
Most important moments of Panathinaikos FC according to the official site http://www.pao.gr/el/history/. These are the teams great times and not only the centenary crisis. Sportin (talk) 07:45, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Run to the Wembley in 1970-1971
Geia sas filarakia. There is an error in the section titled "European Cup Finalists." First of all, Panathinaikos "won" should be Panathinaikos "beat" the following teams. Second, Panathinaikos never beat Everton in that European Cup: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Cup_1970-71. It was a 1-1 tie. I went to look this result up on this Panathinaikos FC page and it was incorrect. --Trifylli (talk) 21:15, 25 February 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trifylli (talk • contribs) 21:14, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia is about FACTS not RUMOURS
So please do not add players to the squad before they are actually presented by the team. Also do not delete or move to loaned players just because a newspaper said Panathinaikos [b]will[/b]loan the player. Wait for it to actually happen before changing this page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.1.226.217 (talk) 14:50, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Marfin Arena?
http://www.pao.gr/el/news/clubnews/?itemid=227b02db-bcc8-475c-96c0-9d0244811c3e

Should the part about the marfin arena be deleted or changed after the last news? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.92.65.17 (talk) 08:03, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

i want to know the procedure of becoming ur football player am a football olayer —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.155.20.166 (talk) 18:00, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Colours and crest Shamrock
Is there a reliable source that Papazoglou took the idea for the shamrock from this william sherring ?I cant find anything in Greek. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.12.89.137 (talk) 21:52, 29 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Probably there is not but this is mainly because noone has ever thought seriously about the origin of the shamrock! Everyone used to say that the shamrock was the emblem of Chalkidona, where Papazoglou played before Panathinaikos, but this is absolutely FALSE. Chalkidona NEVER had the shamrock as its emblem and, the shamrock is clearly an Irish symbol! The explanation of William Sherring seems to be perfectly logical. He was the Athens 1906 Olympic Gold Medalist in a very prestigious sport, the Classic Marathon! He was famous in Greece at the time, Spyros Louis personally game him the Gold Medal (you can find a relevant drawing on the internet, Louis giving Sherring the gold medal and Sherring wearing the shirt with the shamrock). Papazoglou was clearly influenced by the great Canadian athlete who had won the Gold inside the Panathinaikon Stadium, so he adopted the shamrock and made it his own, wearing it when playing for Chalkidona. ONLY Papazoglou wore a shirt with a shamrock, NOT the whole of Chalkidona! Then he took the idea to Panathinaikos, where it fitted perfectly: Sherring won the Gold in Athens wearing the shamrock, Panathinaikos was the team of Athens searching for an smart emblem, so there you have it! -- Picker78 (talk) 18:57, 1 February 2011 (UTC)


 * You can't change something so important in the article based just in "logic".

In the history section at the official website Papazoglou had the shamorock in the shirt. It doesn't mention any influences — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zaravakos (talk • contribs) 10:47, 2 February 2011 (UTC)


 * If it was really important for the fans of the team they would have found a reasonable explanation about the origin of the shamrock. The official site may talk bullshit, the shamrock is clearly an Irish symbol and its origin is Irish of course! It is nonsense to believe that someone from Greece or Turkey had the idea of drawing a shamrock that it literally is a copy of the Irish symbol! It is obvious that the crest has an Irish origin! Sherring was an athlete of St. Patrick's Athletic, a club of Irish origin. This is why he ran with the shamrock. This guy Papazoglou just copied Sherring's shamrock, this is the simple truth my friend! -- Picker78 (talk) 14:13, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Are you Greek Picker78? This explanation for this Sherring is in your imagination. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zaravakos (talk • contribs) 18:46, 3 February 2011 (UTC)


 * The Chalkidona explanation is pure imagination! The Shamrock of Panathinaikos is just a perfect imitation of the Irish symbol. You must be a fool if you think a Greek invented this too! -- Picker78 (talk) 19:29, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't care who invented the shamrock .The chalkidona explanation is at the official page of the club ,end of story if you find a better source than that please feel free to add it.stop changing the section with this marathon runner — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zaravakos (talk • contribs) 22:44, 3 February 2011 (UTC)


 * I do care. This marathon runner was the man who inspired the shamrock. If you don't see it, you must be blind. The shamrock of Panathinaikos is an Irish symbol, the way it is drawn is 100% an imitation of the Irish symbol. You'd better accept it! -- Picker78 (talk) 04:40, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I have uploaded a picture of Michalis Papazoglou, it is from his time in Chalkidona in Istanbul. Take a look at it and then compare it to the picture of William Sherring, taken on the day he won the Athens Olympic Marathon. The thing speaks for itself! -- Picker78 (talk) 08:38, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

How exactly did it happen?Papazoglou was watching the marathon in his Television then saw Sherring with the shamrock and got the idea? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zaravakos (talk • contribs) 14:12, 4 February 2011 (UTC)


 * We are talking about the a Gold Medalist in the Olympic Games mate! We are talking about the Gold Medalist of the Classic Olympic Marathon of Athens. He was famous at the time you know! Just look at those pictures! -- Picker78 (talk) 14:20, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
 * In case you still doubt, take a look at what I've just found to see I'm not the only one! It's in greek, I hope it works: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:kcLYBZM_Ab0J:forum.greenwebfans.com/viewtopic.php%3Ff%3D27%26t%3D9374%26start%3D420+%CF%80%CE%B1%CE%BD%CE%B1%CE%B8%CE%B7%CE%BD%CE%B1%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%BF%CF%82+sherring&cd=8&hl=el&ct=clnk&source=www.google.com -- Picker78 (talk) 15:08, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

it's a fans website Picker that someone is guessing about the shamrock, it does not prove anything,it may happened as you say but it may didn't. You can't put it in the article as a fact Zaravakos (talk) 10:22, 13 February 2011 (UTC)


 * It is not put as a fact, it is put as a possibility. -- Picker78 (talk) 01:08, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Please do not alter the actual years/seasons of the infoboxes regarding the kit manufacturers and sponsors, when altering the colors. There are seasons with two different kits etc. Info has been collected after extensive research and must remain exactly as is in order to be right. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:214D:8224:3F00:35A4:B68A:C832:CBEB (talk) 19:18, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Panathinaikos FC or Panathinaikos F.C.
In wikipedia articles most football clubs are written F.C. Why change it to just FC? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.103.127.38 (talk) 21:58, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Barcelona is "FC". Bayern Munich is also "FC". Dots are not necessary in my opinion. In the UEFA official page there are no dots in the clubs' names. -- 109.242.13.192 (talk) 20:37, 11 February 2011 (UTC)


 * FWIW, the English version of the club's website uses dots.   Will Beback    talk    22:12, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

and also many clubs in wikipedia use dots so Will could you change it back to F.C. ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.4.118.197 (talk) 22:16, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

If "Panathinaikos FC" changes to "F.C.", then the same must be done with "Panathinaikos AO", "Panathinaikos BC" and Panathinaikos VC". They are all without dots. I think it should remain as it is now. The dots would have a meaning only if it was written in all capitals, i.e. "PANATHINAIKOS F.C." This is why the english version of the club's official website uses dots, because "PANATHINAIKOS F.C." is written in all capitals! -- 109.242.13.192 (talk) 05:49, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I have no preference. I've asked the editor who originally moved it to reply here. Nobody should move the page again until there's a clear consensus.   Will Beback    talk    06:31, 12 February 2011 (UTC)


 * I completely agree with 109.242.13.192. Dots are necessary only when it's written in all capitals, like "PANATHINAIKOS F.C." It should remain without dots, since it's not in all capitals. -- Picker78 (talk) 06:37, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

What does the capital letters have to do with the dots?Many clubs in wikipedia use the dots check milan,chelsea,man utd etc is there a rule in this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.49.78.97 (talk) 08:50, 12 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Nowhere inside the articles about Panathinaikos are there any dots in the acronyms. Why should there be dots only in the title? Almost all the Spanish teams names, including Barca, have no dots. In the official UEFA site there are no dots in the names of the teams. Dots are useful only when it's all capitals, so as to distinguish the words from the acronyms. -- Picker78 (talk) 14:15, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Picker most football clubs in wikipedia articles have dots in their aticles from porto to real madrid to besiktas to galatasaray english clubs and so on.So obviously dots are not useful only when it's all capitals So how will it work?You'll keep changing without asking anyone? Zaravakos (talk) 10:17, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

to be honest the whole "FC" is wrong, the clubs name is Panathinaikos Athletikos Omilos (PAO) not Panathinaikos Podosfairikos Omilos (PFC) and stupidly the club changed it to FC just to sound english All clubs in UEFA Competitions keep the official names in their languages for example Hamburger SV ,Galatasaray SK and they are not changing to FC. Most greek clubs do it though it's Aris FC or Aek Fc which is just wrong

I propose a change to Panathinaikos AO what do you think? Zaravakos (talk) 10:39, 13 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Zaravakos, the article was a complete mess and I made it what it is like today. Just remember what this article was like one or two months ago. As for the dots, I think it is better without them. Panathinaikos BC is without dots, Panathinaikos VC and Panathinaikos AO as well. If Panathinaikos FC changes, then the other 3 should change too. I insist that, since the name is not written in all capitals, the dots should be avoided. -- Picker78 (talk) 16:27, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

I check other football club pages here in wikipedia and compare it with this one.Most of them have dots. But anyway maybe it's not that important.

I agree the article was not good. But it still kneeds a lot of improvement. Good articles have many references that are based in sources .This article has only 7 or 8. You can't write sth that is not based in a reliable source.

For example "Papazoglou was possibly inspired by William Sherring ..." Where is the reliable source for that? Zaravakos (talk) 11:05, 14 February 2011 (UTC)


 * There is no reliable source about any of the explanations regarding the origin of the shamrock. Actually, noone has ever thought seriously about this matter! They only used to say that Papazoglou was wearing a shamrock. Excuse me??? Where did he find it from??? The shamrock of Panathinaikos is clearly the Irish symbol, there is no doubt about it! There has to be an Irish explanation. -- Picker78 (talk) 01:17, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Emblem
Is there any particular reason, apart from it not having a use-rationale specific to this page, for the Panathinaikos FC emblem not to appear on this page? It is after all discussed in the text.

It seems very odd for our article on a major European football team not to show its emblem. I appreciate that the emblem does appear on the Panathinaikos AO page for the parent organisation; but that article is (so far as I can see) not even linked from this one, and probably not of any great interest to football fans, at any rate probably not outside Greece, whereas the football club logo probably is.

It therefore would seem to me sensible to me to include the emblem on this page.

Are there any objections to me adding it here, with a suitable use rationale? Jheald (talk) 15:18, 9 June 2011 (UTC)


 * No, there is not. --Dirk Beetstra T  C 15:24, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, note, Panathinaikos redirects to Panathinaikos AO. Also, I expect that edit warring to include the image without fair-use rationale will have stopped if there is a rationale, you're free to lift the protection then as well, as the issue is then moot.  --Dirk Beetstra T  C 15:28, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Done. But it will take somebody with the requisite powers to lift the protection.  Jheald (talk) 15:44, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Also done! Thanks!  --Dirk Beetstra T  C 15:45, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved. ErikHaugen (talk &#124; contribs) 06:11, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Panathinaikos FC → Panathinaikos F.C. – Requested move: FC stands for "Football Club", and should have periods, as it is an abbreviation and the official name of the club uses periods in the name.). TheUnderdark (talk) 09:57, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. Jenks24 (talk) 14:39, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Edit request on 10 July 2012
Please change at Coaching staff of Panathinaikos F. C. 2012 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panathinaikos_F.C.) Rui Almeida as Fitness Coach to Assistant Coach because as you can see he was the Head Coach of syria National Team as you have (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria_national_under-23_football_team). Sources: http://www.zerozero.pt/treinador.php?grp=1&ond=&compet_id_jogos=0&epoca_id=103&epoca_fim_id=140&id=333&menu=results&type=season http://www.fussballzz.de/treinador.php?id=333

Ironman29 (talk) 23:10, 10 July 2012 (UTC)


 * You can do it yourself now; the protection has expired. Floating Boat   (the user formerly known as AndieM)  06:10, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Name Players of Squad
Please change the names of the players of the 2012 squad of the team. Some assholes tells names for our players. Its a shame

Emblem - Logo
The Official Logo of Panathinaikos is here (http://www.pao.gr/UserFiles/2a0a8709-330c-46c8-8b6b-484dceec6289/4_1.jpg) please anyone who now how to change it! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Demos.m (talk • contribs) 00:27, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Edit-warring over origin of shamrock symbol
Couple of points: In the absence of anything better, I'd go with something along those lines. Fut.Perf. ☼ 16:20, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) The recent edit-warring  is unacceptable, no matter from which side.
 * 2) People absolutely need to stop judging that Sherring story on the basis of how likely they find it or on how many other webpages they've seen it, as people were doing here in the thread a bit further up this page, a couple years ago.
 * 3) It's clear the story is now reflected in several ostensibly decent sources, such as the UEFA page currently cited, although none of these are really fully reliable when it comes to  – there's no sign any of them were written by people who have actually done substantial, independent research into club history rather than doing superficial copying from other web sources.
 * 4) There's apparently a well-based suspicion that we are dealing with a case of what we on Wikipedia call "WP:Citogenesis", or circular sourcing, i.e. a claim that only appeared out in the world because it was first made unsourced here on Wikipedia and people copied it from here. Without a decent reference going back earlier than that, this suspicion will be hard to counter.
 * 5) On the other hand, the sentence that was being pushed into the article in order to counter the Sherring story  was both heavily ungrammatical and itself a piece of unsourced WP:OR reasoning. That's not the proper way to deal with questionable claims.
 * 6) The club itself, on what seems to be its official website, presents the Sherring story as one among three "possible" explanations for the shamrock, stressing that the true origin is uncertain ("Η προέλευση του τριφυλλιού ως εμβλήματος του συλλόγου δεν είναι απολύτως ξεκάθαρη").


 * It is absolutely clear that there is an Irish origin of the team's shamrock symbol. It is a perfect Irish shamrock, not just a trifolium. If you look at the photo of Papazoglou and the photo of Sherring, they are identical to each other. It is more than obvious that Papazoglou was a big fan of Sherring. 188.4.203.205 (talk) 23:51, 23 December 2015 (UTC)


 * "Absolutely clear" and "More than obvious" are not sources for using in WP; Greek, English or any other version. --Στέλιος Πετρουλάκης (talk) 23:57, 23 December 2015 (UTC)


 * What about the official page of Panathinaikos A.O.? Is it a source or not? The official site of PAO accepts it! 188.4.203.205 (talk) 00:01, 24 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Now, this a source! But your comment falls into the 2nd category (People absolutely need to stop judging that Sherring story on the basis of how many other webpages they've seen it) that Fut.Perf. describes in his #2 point, while your previous one falls into the 1st (how likely they find it). Since the discussion rules are set by the user who starts it, breaching them in order just to have your say and doing this right from the beginning, is not that polite in WP and in general. You can always start your own discussion based on the rules of your choice.
 * What worries me most is that it appears:
 * * you,
 * * the rest of the anonymous users listed here,
 * * another of this kind in the past (having a very illuminating fight) and
 * * some others involved last summer in a discussion of the same subject in Greek WP (I had the privilege to entertain two of them in my Talk page there, after several users –including me– were verbally attacked by 1-2 more: starting from here)
 * share identical flare, persistence, abusive and insulting spirit while using common argumentation, language, syntax and sources (the same 3-4 despite they state there are dozens available) with as seen in the above Colours and crest Shamrock discussion of this Talk page. A user responsible for a great deal of, among other, Policy non compliance, behavioural problems and vandalisms in sports/politics/sex articles of English and Greek WP, who proved to be a constant puppet maker and finally, someone the projects have both expelled from their ranks since several years and forever (although he occasionally visits us through his X,XXX reincarnation).


 * For the time being, let's consider the fact as a pure coincidence... --Στέλιος Πετρουλάκης (talk) 06:10, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 23 May 2020
Sadly, at 'honours' and 'worldwide competitions' it still says 'Fiagos Corona Cup'. Please remove that. Joephuh (talk) 21:18, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Done MDDevice talk 06:41, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

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 * PAO Paiania.jpg

Ανεπίσημη συμμετοχή

 * Η UEFA δεν συμπεριλαμβάνει στα «επίσημα» ευρωπαϊκά ματς κάθε ομάδας αυτά του Κυπέλλου Εκθέσεων («Inter – Cities Fairs Cup») «προπομπού» του Κυπέλλου UEFA, το οποίο διεξαγόταν από το 1955 έως το 1971.

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