Talk:Panic attack/Archive 4

Experienced Sufferers
Being bold here, I deleted the section about experienced sufferers not having any outward symptoms of a panic attack. I'm fairly sure this is POV and anecdotal evidence, but if anyone can back it up I'd fully support putting it back up. This is from a decade long panic disorder sufferer who apparently is a weak novice at having a neuropsychiatric disorder. ;) Please cite any reputable research or leave it out at the risk of alienating other people with the disorder, the last thing we need is to enhance the stigma of mental illness and make people look down upon those with physiological reactions thinking they can control panic if they only had the willpower. 91.113.90.192 (talk) 00:05, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Its true that people can ride these out without showing any signs of it. However, I also know it does not take an "experienced sufferer" to accomplish this. JeremyWJ (talk) 08:34, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
 * As one such "experienced sufferer" - panic attacks for me have very few outward symptoms, and always have. However, I always ask for help or call out to others as part of the fear and anxiety. Maybe it has to do with my being a teenager, but when i get scared, I want others around me, experienced sufferer or no. So while it's possible that people can, I doubt very many people actually do. - Miri

What you're essentially saying is that you deleted this section because of your experience with panic disorder, and negative implications you've found in the article's statements. You then accuse the article's own statements of being based on anecdotal evidence. Two wrongs don't make a right. If the information is referenced, please do not remove it. That's censorship based on your subjective feelings.

I suffer with panic disorder, and it's true that I've been able to learn coping skills and become somewhat desensitized to the symptoms of my attacks; but my circumstances can't be applied to everyone. There are still people who experience very intense attacks, and what coping skills I've learned don't help them. No one is saying that both sets of circumstances are mutually exclusive, and that people with panic disorder simply need to "get over it." This is your own conclusion — not a conclusion drawn by the article.

In the meantime, consider how such reactionary censorship is actually hurting the quality of the article. People who research the subject to better understand their own diagnosis need to know the truth: That it may very well be possible (in their unique circumstances) to learn coping skills and desensitize themselves to the symptoms of their attacks. Instead, you're removing that information and saying, "Sorry, guys. Just because of my experience, I'm saying there isn't any hope of coping with this on your own." 72.155.96.97 (talk) 21:55, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Just speaking from my own personal experience of panic attacks for at least 10 years, i have tried lots of coping methods and i find that they may help me, when i start to think about some thing or situation that would start a panic attack, in calming and reasoning in my brain (may prevent some if done on super early onset)but if i get far enough with this thought or situation and my panic attack starts, nothing helps. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brucebrae (talk • contribs) 04:27, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Picture
The placement of Image:Panic-attack.jpg at the top of the page and the simultaneous mention of a still-living artist's name is a possible conflict of interest in an article about a medical condition. Shawnc (talk) 12:14, 10 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree. It's a nice image, but it really has very little to do with the subject.  --Brokenchairs (talk) 20:43, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

I find this picture to be highly problematic. I am not an expert on the subject of panic attacks, but from every anecdote I have heard about the subject (this totals at least four), people have expressed that physical contact is profoundly uncomfortable during an episode. As an alternative to this, it has been suggested that people wishing to help should take a cloth doused in cold water, instruct the sufferer to place it on his/her forehead, and focus on the feeling between the cloth & forehead. Can anyone corroborate this?


 * That is specially true with people that have things like social phobias. --TiagoTiago (talk) 07:24, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Speaking from personal experience I do not like to be touched when in a full on panic attack but mostly because of the heat. I get hot flashes-or more like a constant high temperature, and the feeling of another person's body heat just makes it worse. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brucebrae (talk • contribs) 04:31, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Suicide
Do suicides have a connection to panic attacks? --68.111.222.42 (talk) 01:39, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Not a doctor, but I would say no. During a panic, at least the kind I have experienced, a person is not physically capable of committing such an act.  Panic attacks also bring on a fear of dying, so I don't think a person would want to kill themselves during it because that is probably their biggest fear.  However, the anxiety that leads up to panic attacks could obviously lead someone to suicide. JeremyWJ (talk) 08:25, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
 * As someone who has been suffereing panic attacks for years, I can tell you that in the full grip of a panic attack, you are very convinced you are dying, and are terrified of it. Suicide is the last thing on your mind. However, I believe (don't quote me on this) that panic attacks can be symptoms of other conditions that can lead to suicide, but I could be wrong, as I'm not a doctor either. -Miri
 * Yet another not-a-doctor response -- I can't fathom killing myself during the attack itself, but after a few good ones in short order, I get a bit suicidal. Panic disorder limits the things I can do on my own. It adds a situational component to what is, admittedly, a chemical depression; the combination is decidedly unpleasant. C.M.W. 01:31, 16 Dec 2010 (EST) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lovefromgirl (talk • contribs)

I would say there is at least a minor correlation, given the intensity of the attack. I have no idea if there are any specific examples.

Some attacks can manifest with physical pain, psychotic delusions, or otherwise extremely unpleasant sensations and beliefs. A person who is convinced that they're dying some horrible death may attempt suicide as a desperate measure of avoiding pain / trauma in the process of their supposedly inevitable doom. Some of my own attacks have been so bad that I begged for death to hurry up and occur, rather than make me suffer slowly and horribly. 72.150.233.212 (talk) 02:02, 24 April 2011 (UTC)


 * I would expect there have been occurrences of people inadvertently causing their own deaths due to their panicked reactions... --TiagoTiago (talk) 07:27, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

During my personal full blown panic attacks I have an ultimate fear of death and do not want to die. My only thought toward it would be just wishing I would die in my sleep or a non-traumatic death and not whatever I was experiencing that I am convinced is my doom. I would never inflict death on myself though, especially not during a attack. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brucebrae (talk • contribs) 04:37, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Medication
Why do we always leap towards medication? There are many easy and simple techniques for dealing with panic attacks. How do you think the human race got here with out medication? Why are we so quick prescribe drugs and diagnose medical problems? Why are we medicating kids? It's because of the drug companies that's why.

Let see some of time honoured techniques listed here to over come panic attacks with out medication, breathing exercises and relaxation techniques don't cost money and don't have side effects. Let's get real. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.34.48.22 (talk) 14:22, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

No, I 've had many panic attacks, and I never feel suicidal. I just accept there a part of me, and that makes me who I am!!! I often have them at school. I just go to the nurse's office, and she takes me into a room and gives me oxygen. Or if I have a really bad panic attack, I get my phone out. The nurse has given me her number. Or if I'm in a really bad state, my friends phone the nurse and get her to come to me. She brings her assitant and a strecher. They carry me off, and I'm fine. Just know that if you have panic attacks, there'll always be people who will help you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.196.63.54 (talk) 20:48, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I would like to add that as a panic attack sufferer I have been suicidal during attacks. I once tried to claw my own eyes out (not successfully thank god). I often feel that I would rather die than feel what my panic attacks feel like so when I know one is coming on I get some degree of desire to be knocked out or dead. -LS —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.170.50.165 (talk) 11:45, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Anxiolytics, benzos, etc. aren't some evil scam cooked-up by drug companies. These drugs are prescribed because they're effective stop-gap measures to help a person deal with an attack when it occurs. Yes, they have terrible side-effects and a high risk of dependency, but a person weighs a cost-benefit analysis before taking them: Is it easier to deal with a nervous breakdown, or a benzo hangover? Can I use this drug responsibly?

CBT therapy, relaxation techniques and other coping skills are useful long-term treatments for panic disorder, or other disorders that cause panic attacks; however, their efficacy depends on the patient. If a patient is struggling to consistently apply these techniques, or they simply don't work in their situation, then medication can be used to help control their symptoms. I mean, how do you honestly expect to help someone who is hysterical with fear? For any therapy to work for them, they may very well need to take a chill-pill just long enough to coherently and reasonably discuss CBT techniques and coping skills. I know it was difficult for me to even leave my house and see a therapist in the first place. I could not have taken that first step without medication as a temporary crutch. 72.150.233.212 (talk) 02:18, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

From personal experience I started having panic attacks when I was young and desperately wanted help to never have one again or be able to control the situation and stop it. I went to numerous doctors but all they ever did want to prescribe was anti-depression medications-which was not the problem and therefore did not help me one bit. After I got old enough to do my own research I started reviewing possibilities of how to prevent or fix an attack. I tried the coping and thinking exercises, but when in a full attack you don't think about that. The coping only helped me if the scenario was mild and very early. No doctor ever offered me a benzo or anything else to help me immediately. I had to research for myself to know they even existed! They have saved me from so many episodes, I only take as needed and they simple calm me and make me sleepy so I can escape my current mind set. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brucebrae (talk • contribs) 04:45, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

panic attack causes
I find that the idea that cannabis and psilocybin can cause panic attacks to be trivial. I don't care if it is a peer reviewed study, they have misinterpreted physical symptoms of drug and effect as panic attack, when it can just be excitation. Infact, there is contradictory evidence out there that cannabis and psilocybin have anti-depressant abilities and can otherwise treat anxiolytic symptoms (albeit, hushed by the anti-drug lobby, psychedelics were touted as revolutationary treatments for depression and OCD). I think the problem of the study is that it is behavioural and not cognitive and looking for outward external physiological reactions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.223.163.1 (talk) 12:17, 14 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't think its trivial, but I think wording is important. Im thinking that, in people prone to panic, using any substance that reduces 'control' over oneself could easily (if not often) initiate a cascading panic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.128.56.194 (talk) 06:00, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Why the agoraphobia section
Why is there a section on agoraphobia? It doesn't seem to belong here. 70.132.5.91 (talk) 17:04, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Agoraphobia can be a result of Panic attacks and does belong here. I belive that there is no need


 * for it to be removed from the article. Thank you though for trying to help improve the article. DeSalvionjr Talk Contribs

I strongly disagree. There is another article devoted to agoraphobia, simply reducing this mention of it to a sentence with a link would be much more efficient, the same for Panic disorders, seeing as how half the article is devoted to something that has a seperate article. definitely needs to be condesnsed.12.109.107.253 (talk) 22:57, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Agoraphobia is here because it can cause a panic attack, it is one of the fears that commonly brings an attack on for some people, including myself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brucebrae (talk • contribs) 04:50, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Mental / Emotional symptoms overlap
The "Mental" and "Emotional" symptoms repeat themselves, in more or less the same words. These two sections needs to be made more focused and clear. It seems that these two sections are mostly about the same kind of thing: personal panic attack experience within the mind. Either both these sections should be rewritten, or should be edited together, because it looks sloppy as it is currently. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.75.187.46 (talk) 23:24, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Symptopms

There has been a request for quite some time now (since July 2007) to have sourced materials on the symptoms. This has not been don, so I changed the symptomlist, and used The Minnesota Mayoclinics symptomlist as source. I do not see that there is a need to divide the list into physical, ental and emotional. The symptom "Loud internal dialoge" really needs a source if it should be added, since this is neither verified by the Mayoclinic nor by other hospitals or govermentl pages I have checked whe I searched for sources.--Ekologkonsult (talk) 12:18, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Burning?
"This leads to shifts in blood pH (respiratory alkalosis or hypocapnia), which in turn can lead to many other symptoms, such as tingling or numbness, dizziness, burning and lightheadedness"

Is this really meant to say that burning is a symptom? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dr satsuma (talk • contribs) 00:45, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Link to quiz is invalid
http://panicdisorder.about.com/od/pdbasics/a/attackquiz.htm

no long points to a quiz, rather to a general about.com index of articles on panic disorder/attacks. I have not been able to find the original quiz. The link should probably be updated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.198.255.165 (talk) 03:53, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

I think mental is directly related to the mind and emotional is directly related to the emotions that are Not necessarily derived from the mind, although they find expression there. Even though the two may overlap at times, it does not mean the same thing.

Question: A young man that I know has panic attacks often. Could it have a neurological source? Can anyone answer this? RMA. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ralvarez4665 (talk • contribs) 15:05, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

An entire section.
The entire section of 'Interoceptive desensitization/symptom inductions' seems iffy to me. There's no citations. Sunshooter (talk) 03:19, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Carbonell
Who's this Carbonell guy who is cited extensively throughout the page? Why is he given so much prominence on the page? Why the improper citation style? 87.11.73.148 (talk) 04:29, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Symptoms
This list is very odd. I doubt this is the best way to present the information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.119.229.134 (talk) 03:28, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Other Treatments
Under "coping statements", the assertion is made that "No one has ever died from an anxiety attack." Is this true? What if I have a panic attack while driving, and this affects my ability to control the vehicle? Yes, the death was not from the panic attack. But neither do drunk drivers die from the alcohol. It would be really helpful if there was some thoughtful consideration of whether or not panic attacks actually do create dangerous situations.
 * Although you are correct, that is not what this means. This statement "no one has ever died from an anxiety attack" is a coping statement many people do actually use during an attack to "comfort" themselves.  Its not claiming that no one has actually ever died (directly or indirectly) from an attack. JeremyWJ (talk) 08:29, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

I think that something should be added about temporary treatments for a panic attack. While it is good to have a long term treatment, it is also helpful to know a way to stop a panic attack when medical treatment is not an option. Most frequent sufferers of panic attacks can feel it coming on. I have suffered have had anxiety and panic attacks since, quite literally, before I can remember, and I know that for me, the first symptoms include nausea, dizziness, hot flashes, and trembling. A good way to deal with panic attacks before they escalate into something out of your control is to find a cold towel and place it on the majority of your body (especially your head and neck- I frequently place it on my stomach to help with the nausea). This should be done while laying down, closing your eyes, and deeply breathing. It's amazing how much this helps to both physically calm you, and to mentally assuage your fears. I know that I am not a doctor, but having anxiety as long as I have teaches you a thing or two about panic attacks. 75.64.236.237 (talk) 05:15, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

id like to unprofessionally add to this ive been suffering with these for quite a few years now. they hit me suddenly and hard.. so hard i wished i would just die instead of that suffering and physical pain it was to much to bare in my heart and chest area quick sharp stabbing feelings with EVERY beat of my heart.... first off doctors at my VA didnt know what was going on with me when i would go into the ER.... they would shoot me up with all the morphine they legally could id wake up the next day asking questions when am i gonna get this heart outta me and another one in me... these were literally life threatening panic attacks cause of my heart rate and blood pressure would go up so high it put me at risk for heart attacks and strokes... so yes people this can hurt you.. so lets get down to business as to what actually worked for me.. xanax .5mg never went up higher than that.. and only took em when i felt it come on.. sometimes this would be up to 6-7 times a day if left untreated from the time i woke up till the time my body passed out from pain.. and if i only knew that hot hot baths for some reason if i was to sit in front of the faucet indian style head on the wall and my hands directing the hot water directly over my heart onto my chest it would feel so good that it would give me cold chills (goosebumps) up my spine AHH HA!! instant relief!! by chance.. so i let the tub fill doing that trying to control my breathing.. and once it was full enough just lay back in water and let it relax all the muscles in your entire body.. since i was having head pains too i would put my entire head under water and just blow out.. for as long as i comfortably could...then lay in the bath and i could finally direct myself without great thought as i did before.. so hot baths or anything that may give you those goose bumps if its just a soft touch or a backrub. DO IT! this will help you control it.. now sometime later i had noticed that my head has a lot of pressure on the it felt like i constantly wanted to press on it with my hands so instead i grabbed my towel and wrapped this around my head ending that feeling with great quickness as well.. if i had only knew these things before i wouldnt have suffered like i did for years... get checked out.. make sure its not a heart attack.. if they say you are good to go.. leave and go to head doc get you a script cause if they are tough they are one HELL of a ride.. and those will help you get throught it.. you will know if you take them they will work if these other 2 things do not.. anyways guys i love you and i hope that you will find peace soon and just feel normal again i promise you that it is possible.. you can get over this.. just breath out and sigh if you can.. a sigh is a very comforting thing or can be when you body is going through all this stress. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.100.21.108 (talk) 20:00, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

psychotherapy, recent edits and vandalism
To the user who is suggesting that psychotherapy is ineffectie: You need to reference your sources. Perhaps before making thoughs changes, we can discuss them here and come to consensus. Also, let the editors not rush to call these changes vandalism. Let us assume good faith. However, until you cite valid sources, your edits will be reverted. Mwalla (talk) 18:22, 27 February 2009 (UTC)mwalla

Treatment
If someone is having panic attacks, the last thing one would want to do is to scare them from taking medication. SSRI and SNRI do not cause suicide and are not addictive, but they have been associated with suicide ideation and discontinuation syndrome. These are not the same as suicide and addiction. Mwalla (talk) 18:45, 27 February 2009 (UTC)mwalla

Medications
The medications section is very misleading and confusing. Benzodiazepines are still widely used by physicians to treat panic disorder. SNRIs do not have any addictive potential - Effexor is no different from Prozac in that regard. It's going to require a complete rewrite, and until then, I'm redirecting it to the medications section on Panic disorder. Mutual monarch (talk) 21:07, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Would like to add the part found in the french version: Very helpful, as I teated my self for anxitiety, after a panic attack, that way. it is not made up, it is already referenced, again in the french version: underTraitement [modifier] Les psychothérapies, associées à un certain nombre de méthodes de relaxation, comme l'acupuncture, la méditation, etc, donnent de très bons résultats. Il appartient bien sûr au patient, aidé ou non, d'adopter celles qui lui correspondent le mieux. follow the link: [] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.232.67.99 (talk) 03:05, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Should it mention
How eating and even drinking things will bring about panic attacks? Because I can eat something that is even slightly unhealthy and I get one so maybe that should be mentioned.--216.120.175.58 (talk) 18:12, 10 November 2009 (UTC)


 * The sensation of anything uncommon could produce a panic attack.Tintor2 (talk) 18:16, 10 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Probably worth mentioning if (and it's a big if) there are high-quality sources to support it. Looie496 (talk) 19:27, 10 November 2009 (UTC)


 * As far as I know this would be grouped under 'specific panic attack', as the attack is known to be triggered by a specific event. Note that the proper term could be 'situationally bound', as I'm working from memory. 205.175.113.158 (talk) 03:13, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Panic attack sufferers "consistently" unassertive?
Was surprised to read this, since "consistently" is a strong word:

"This un-assertive way of communicating seems to contribute to panic attacks while being consistently present in those that are afflicted with panic attacks."

Does the source really make such a strong claim? I'm not doubting the value of the source - five minutes with google shows it is very highly regarded - but wondering whether the wording of the article is careless. I started suffering with (thankfully occasional, but clustered) panic attacks nearly a year ago, and I don't think anyone could accuse me of being nonassertive (if anything, sometimes the opposite!). I know this is "original research", but does the source text really claim that panic attack sufferers are "consistently" unassertive in their dealings with others, or does it just note it as a trend? Would "frequently" or "often" be better than "consistently"?Señor Service (talk) 22:50, 28 December 2009 (UTC)


 * A popular "Workbook" is not really an authoritative source. I changed "consistently" to "frequently", which seems to accord with the scholarly literature, but this could be worth revisiting by somebody who knows the literature better than I do. Looie496 (talk) 23:09, 28 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Consistently probably means it is a consistant finding in research. It doesn't mean all people who have panic attacks are unassertive but just probably means it is scientifically repeatable finding that this personality trait is more common in panic attack sufferers than the general public. I think the rewording By Looie is good. I have not read the source though so I could be wrong.-- Literature geek |  T@1k?  01:47, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Needs to be condensed and made a little clearer
The bottom half of this article is a mess! The agoraphobia reference should be one or two sentences with a link to the agoraphobia article instead of an entire section. as should the panic disorder section. The treatment section describes the treatment of panic disorder, which while similar is different from someone having a panic attack. Just an opinion, but half of this article is sections that dont belong as well as a treatment section that doesnt really address the issue of how to treat a lone panic attack (which is what this article is about). These articles should be seperate entities. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.109.107.253 (talk) 23:12, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

See also: Exaggeration?
Why does the "See also" link to "Catastrophization"? This article redirects to Exaggeration, which seems inappropriate and possibly offensive to panic attack sufferers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.92.250.90 (talk) 22:04, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Agoraphobia?
Well, why not include claustrophobia while you're at it (documented panic attacks as a result of being enclosed with no one to talk to)? Or maybe Acrophobia (slightly induced panic attack to save oneself from falling)? Or perhaps Autophobia (fear of being alone)? :| TelCo NaSp  Ve :|  05:34, 18 May 2010 (UTC)


 * You're confusing terminology. Similar to how hydrophobia is often misused as meaning 'fear of water', agoraphobia does not, clinically, refer to a simple 'fear of open spaces'. It's defined as 'a fear of open spaces caused by a prior panic attack' (basically). It isn't necessarily a component of panic attacks, but it's very often linked to it. 205.175.113.158 (talk) 03:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
 * either way, they should be added to the page. With the correct definitions of course.P0PP4B34R732 (talk) 03:40, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Stub-sections
Incomplete sections like Panic attack and Panic attack already have their own articles, so why not move them to the top of the page in the listed disambig page or the intro? :| TelCo NaSp  Ve :|  05:38, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Treatment
What exactly is the difference in the treatment of a panic attack and a panic disorder? Shouldn't they be merged together? :| TelCo NaSp   Ve :|   00:54, 1 July 2010 (UTC) The difference is That you have anti anxiety pills for panic disorders, and when the panic attack happesn they give you a different med to calm you down just like they do in Those movies in wich people freak out in a sense of violence —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.30.22.73 (talk) 05:38, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, just because a person has a panic attack does not mean they suffer from anxiety or panic disorders.P0PP4B34R732 (talk) 03:38, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Panic Unprovoked
On the "Panic Disorder" section, it says "Unprovoked." I think this would be best changed to explain that the panic itself (or the fear maybe) is the provoker. 74.132.249.206 (talk) 03:33, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Panic attacks more common in women and male homosexuals?
Should we point out that women and male homosexuals are far more likely to suffer from panic attacks? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.219.118.148 (talk) 13:09, 20 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, this should be pointed out, but only if you sourcing that statement from peer-reviewed study published in a reputable medical journal. If you are new to Wikipedia and aren't sure what this means, or how to proceed further, please reply and either I or another experienced editor will take it from there.  Senator2029  &#124;  talk  07:42, 31 October 2011 (UTC)


 * "For unknown reasons, women are twice as likely to get the disorder as men." -- Subpage 4. Does that count as a reliable source?? Sorry, new to this... Michaela1992 (talk) 22:48, 5 November 2011 (UTC)


 * APA is a reliable source indeed. Zidanie5 (talk) 05:22, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Religion/Islam
Removed a section on Islamic views about panic attacks. This was ostensibly under a heading elaborating about different religions' perceptions of panic attacks, but went on to thinly disguised proselytizing with little to no relevance to the subject at hand. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.248.245.25 (talk) 15:51, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Acupuncture section
I don't see enough citations in the acupuncture section. The lone citation is to an article which doesn't even mention panic attacks, it just mentions the word "anxiety" once. The wording is somewhat tendentious, asserting that acupuncture has the power to help without a citation. I have looked for references connecting acupuncture to panic disorder or panic attack and not found anything both reliable and easy to cite. Attention from an expert might help. NeilK (talk) 12:21, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree, there is no evidence of effectiveness; I believe the section should be deleted and I have went ahead and deleted it from the article.-- Literature geek |  T@1k?  13:08, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I dunno, there may be some validity to this, at least indirectly. I tried to find info about this first but could not, so not changing the article yet. But have there been studies done on the placebo effect in treating panic? Or causing panic for that matter? I'll keep looking but if anyone else already has found one, that would be a lot easier. 74.132.249.206 (talk) 22:03, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Edit request

 * In case of a person experiencing a panic attack, attempt to calm and reassure them.

This caption in the infobox should be removed. It gives advice in clear defiance of WP:NOT. Please note that this is not only an issue of Wikipedia not handing out medical advice, specifically. It's a matter of Wikipedia not being an instruction manual or how-to-guide of any sort. This encyclopedic project is not for giving advice, however accurate or well-meant, period. --87.79.129.120 (talk) 06:21, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
 * You are correct, we should not give instructions; well spotted and thank you for bringing it to our attention. I have altered the wording accordingly.-- Literature geek |  T@1k?  06:42, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. --87.79.129.120 (talk) 06:43, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Trouble breathing and benzos?
What is the treatment for severe panic attacks that involve difficulty breathing? because i understand that the normal first-aid response is the use of benzodiazepines but these may well further suppressed breathing. isn't that dangerous? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.64.139.94 (talk) 23:10, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
 * To me, this sounds like a question asking for medical advice. I'm sorry, we are not allowed to answer those. See: Reference desk/Guidelines/Medical advice With friendly regards,  Lova Falk     talk   13:11, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Trauma & Dissociation vs. Panic Attack
I added a paragraph (reproduced below) that was removed with the edit comment these dubious statements certainly don't belong here without references. On my talk page it continued: ''I've reverted your edit, I'm afraid. The material you added appears to express Freudian ideas that are no longer widely accepted. It might be worth discussing in the article anyway, but at the very least it would be necessary to cite reputable sources for the information.''

Frankly I thought the references to Wikipedia articles themselves were pretty self sufficient. The comments were not specifically Freudian, nor were they dated. I'd also point out that trauma and dissociation are actually very current topics under very active research. See for example the work by Giovanni Liotti, M.D Professor of Cognitive Psychotherapy in Rome, (http://www.empty-memories.nl/science/Liotti_Trauma_Attachment.pdf and many other papers he has written). Ruth Blizard is another strong publisher who comes immediately to mind. http://www.ruthblizard.com/articles. See also Journal of Trauma & Dissociation http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/wjtd20/current. http://www.isst-d.org/ the International Society for the Study of Trauma and Dissociation is hosting its 30th conference this fall, its expected to have full attendance. http://www.isst-d.org/default.asp?contentID=57.

I'm pressed for time to chase down specific academic papers and page references but hope to eventually get to it. Perhaps others have additional references that come to mind? "Trauma & Dissociation" in many instances is very close to "Panic Attack" if fact I'd say in many instances they are synonymous. Following is the original paragraph:


 * In many cases a panic attack is a specific acute stress reaction. In the trauma model of mental disorders a variety of adaptations to early trauma situations remain lodged within a person and can become problematic later in life. For example see the maladaptive patterns in post traumatic stress disorder. The initial trauma may have been temporarily and successfully adapted to via dissociation. Yet later in life similar situations to the initial trauma trigger mild to very severe detachment from immediate physical and emotional experience. This later trauma experience may be dissociation that is partially conscious and partly unconscious. It can result in startling, autonomous intrusions into the person's usual ways of responding or functioning. Due to the unexpected and largely inexplicable nature, the dissociation in the here and now time frame tends to be extremely unsettling. The interaction of formerly dissociated fragments simultaneously "blending with the present, past, and popping through" can result in a panic attack. See Dissociative disorders, Dissociative identity disorder and also borderline personality disorder. Relief is often illusive because that which causes the dissociation is also felt to provide "life or death" level protection from what may be felt on a deep level as a very real possibility of imminent destruction.

Rick (talk) 00:45, 1 May 2013 (UTC)


 * We seem to be getting into the domain of repressed memory here. Given how controversial all this stuff is, it's really impossible to discuss it would specific citations for the statements that are made.  I don't necessarily object to discussing these ideas as a theory, but we will need to be clear on who advocates that theory, and I think we will also need to be clear that many people don't consider it well-established. Looie496 (talk) 16:04, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Adding a bit more...

''People who have repeated, persistent attacks or feel severe anxiety about having another attack are said to have panic disorder. Panic disorder is strikingly different from other types of anxiety disorders in that panic attacks are often sudden and unprovoked.[18]'' [in the current article]

vs.

''Panic attacks are a manifestation of an anxiety disorder that usually stems from a change of circumstance. Psychologists reported instances of previously confident bankers experiencing panic attacks in scenarios that are the bread and butter of their jobs – presentations and client meetings went from being routine to daunting experiences that would cause severe anxiety. Usually, there’s an external pressure that is the cause of the underlying condition, they suggested.''

Note how wide apart the above paragraphs seem - "sudden and unprovoked" vs. just a "change of circumstance" Something that is well understood, with a clearly identified, purely "external" cause doesn't seem to be sufficient to induce panic. "Sudden and unprovoked" seems much closer to what is actually experienced. To the outsider the external pressure that is the cause, the change in circumstance may be quite clear. However to the panic sufferer it may be experienced as much more sudden and absolutely unprovoked. This is clearly an indication of some level of repression.

In my opinion, there are two aspects of many panic attacks. One is a genetic disposition to be "dialed up" a bit, perhaps experience general anxietysomewhat more than the average person. This "predisposition" can be treated medically (with some symptom relief). The meds are however at best partially effective, expensive over time, day to day titration for optimum effectiveness is exceedingly difficult with changing body chemistry and various environmental levels of stress and activation, and negative side effects are numerous and substantial, especially past 6 months of usage.

The second aspect of a panic attack has two parts. First there is some type of learning or conditioning - either early childhood trauma, or very harsh trauma as an adult (sufficient to instill real panic). This however remains unresolved and leaves a lasting trail. Many if not most of the time that level of experience of trauma is strenuously repressed and then "actively" avoided. That avoidance/denial/disassociation takes constant energy.

The second part of that second aspect of a classic panic attack takes place in a here-and-now time-frame. Its a similar situation that just triggers something off that is inherently internal. The current situation only serves to "unlatch" a Pandora's box of prior experience and prior reactions, and causes them to be no longer "containable". With the latch-pin pulled out, those prior experiences (unresolved) come rushing forward in a fight/flight/freeze jumble. They are intense and blend the present situation in odd, complex, chaotic and sometimes bizarre ways. The person is overwhelmed by the "amount" and "intensity" of the emotions they are experiencing. Its like and avalanche going off. The accumulation however was built up from long ago.

I've personally seen five cases within the past three years where there was strong evidence of early childhood sexual abuse and ongoing panic attacks similar to the above were a current significant issue. All five were receiving professional therapy. Every one improved in terms of the frequency and severity of panic attacks as they better understood and processed some of the earlier experience. Every one was "avoidant" and "repressed" initially, and as they approached that highly dreaded "Pandora's Box" deep down inside. My guess is a good portion of rape victims and those subject to substantial domestic abuse would also show some strong similarity to this pattern of panic disorder. It seems so prevalent that it appears to me that the overall article needs much better coverage of this. Anyone experiencing debilitating panic attacks should take some real time to explore any possibility of prior trauma or any hint of possible dissociation which might be impinging on the present. In those circumstances a healthy amount of reflective self exploration and processing through some of the long past repressed trauma may reduce or even eliminate experiencing panic attacks altogether. Rick (talk) 15:31, 21 May 2013 (UTC)


 * Here's the thing: the material above expresses your own personal impressions.  It might be very interesting as a blog post or magazine article, but Wikipedia articles need to be based on reputable published sources.  Your personal observations, however valid they might be, are useless here, unless you can find published sources that make similar statements. Looie496 (talk) 15:45, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Panic attack vs. anxiety attack
"Anxiety attack" redirects to this page, but there's no mention of the phrase on the page itself. Should it be mentioned if they're the exact same thing, or if there's any difference, or if "anxiety attack" is an outdated or incorrect term or something? 71.53.2.32 (talk) 05:04, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Small proposed addition
Hello, friends. I was reading the article on panic attacks, and I thought there could be a small addition that would compliment the existing information already. It would be the text below, added to the end of the section on Panic disorder. "However, panic attacks experienced by those with Panic disorder may also be linked to or heightened by certain places or situations, making daily life difficult." I would reference an article from NAMI, which is where I first learned a lot about the disorder. I'm also a student working on an assignment, and this is my first time editing an article on Wikipedia, so if anyone has any objections, just let me know and I'll do what I can to work with you. Thanks--Jrandal22 (talk) 17:52, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Can someone edit this?
Under "Signs and symptoms", the article reads:
 * "However, since chest pain and shortness of breath are indeed hallmark symptoms of cardiovascular illnesses, including unstable angina and myocardial infarction (heart attack), especially in a person whose mental health status and heart health status are not known, attributing these pains to simple anxiety and not (also) a physical condition is a diagnosis of exclusion (other conditions must be ruled out first) until an electrocardiogram and a mental health assessment have been carried out."

First, the sentence is too long, and second, it is confusing and I don't think a layman would be able to understand it. Can someone rewrite it, please? ~ P-123 (talk) 14:02, 1 September 2015 (UTC)
 * In fact, I think the whole para should be rewritten. ~ P-123 (talk) 14:18, 1 September 2015 (UTC)