Talk:Paper density

meaning of '#'?
please inform anybody....

What gsm or weight of paper indicate '#'?

Example : 70#


 * That just means 70lb. Wikidsoup   [talk]  23:27, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

ream weight
All amazon pages I can find list shipping weights for 500-page reams: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000EFQ5AK/ref=ox_ya_oh_product, http://www.amazon.com/HP-Multipurpose-Inkjet-Brightness-11200-0/dp/B00005UKAX/ref=pd_sbs_op_2 , but they're always 1/4 of the listed weight. This implies that the weight is measured per 2000 sheets and not per 1000 as this page asserts. What's correct? 71.217.4.184 (talk) 05:08, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Nevermind, scratch that. I just read the explanation of basis reams and it appears that the weight for the letter paper refers to the uncut sheets which are 4x as big. So it's one ream of those. Weird measurement. 71.217.4.184 (talk) 05:10, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Japanese paper weight
Kg/1000 sheets... of what? A standard size such as A0? The specific paper size being purchased? Trimmed or oversize? Tesspub (talk) 10:02, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Vandalism?
The article appears to have had chunks cut out of it. In particular, I think these two edits were both vandalism and subsequent editors have not realised and tried merely to patch up the nonsensical results rather than revert the text to something that makes sense:


 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Paper_density&diff=427018168&oldid=425972561
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Paper_density&diff=next&oldid=427018168

The resultant sentence "The basis weight of paper is the density of the number of sheets..." doesn't make sense. I'm going to restore the old text. Weeble (talk) 12:19, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Tag Basis Weight
Tag and Bristol are NOT the same Basis Weight. Tag is 24x36x500 like Newsprint.

http://www.internationalpaper.com/US/EN/Products/BasisWeight.html http://www.wcpsolutions.com/page.php?id=174 http://www.edsebooks.com/paper/grammage.html

All three above show Tag as 24x36. I quote product in Tag weight all day, every day, it is 24x36. I would ruin the table if I edited it.

https://twitter.com/FiberMarkChris — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.138.191.115 (talk) 01:34, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

density vs basis weight
Density is mass per cubic unit; for example gram per cubic centimeter. Basis weight and grammage are mass per unit of area; for example gram per square meter or pounds per 1000 sq inches. They are not the same thing. Also there are several types of reams for paper or paperboard. This article needs a major revision and perhaps a title change. Pkgx (talk) 20:10, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

The article on Grammage or Basis Weight now properly contains the correct material. Density of paper is now consistent with ISO standards. Pkgx (talk) 00:37, 25 August 2015 (UTC)


 * I'm inclined to revert your edits, because what you have done is a sort of stealth change of topic name. Of course "density" normally means "mass per volume", but the term "area density" exists, and describes the perfectly coherent concept of "mass per area" (of a 2-dimensional entity). For paper, "density" *always* means areal density, so the term "paper density" is perfectly clear and reasonable. Changing it to "grammage" really isn't right, because this is a rather slangy term, and stands for "grams per square metre", so it does not include the US (and Japanese) measures based on a number of sheets.


 * I am only too happy to agree that the article needs improving, but I do not think this is the way to do it. I would be interested to see other opinions. Imaginatorium (talk) 13:38, 25 August 2015 (UTC)


 * We should stay with the ISO standards; it is clear that paper density is mass per volume.   Also, the article on Grammage includes Basis Weight discussions;  Basis weight of paper links to Grammage.  Reliable sources support the recent changes.  There is no reason to revert these corrections.  Pkgx (talk) 18:18, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Too industry biased
Since the heading is paper density, it would make more sense to discuss the actual density of paper (average or specific examples) prior to explaining idiosyncratic and technically incorrect standards used by industry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gromitnyc (talk • contribs) 13:36, 20 August 2015 (UTC)


 * Yes, but the obvious problem is how you would refer to the densities you were describing!? In reality there is not much to say about the different densities of paper, and the article is all about the principal ways of specifying them. As so often happens, the policy of having combined articles in US and British English leads to a bit of a mess -- incidentally, I don't think your description is quite right: the standards are technically correct, they just happen to be ridiculous. Imaginatorium (talk) 14:17, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Basis Weight Table
(someone recently deleted almost all useful content from the article - it ought to include some relevant useful tables) Basis Weight ("Category") Table Type Paper	Basic Size - 500 Sheets "Bond"             17" x 22" "Offset"/Book/Text/Coated Paper   25" x 38" "Cover"            20" x 26" "Tag Stock"        24" x 36" "Index"            25-1/2" x 30-1/2" -71.174.188.32 (talk) 20:15, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

paper weight table
Bond  Text   Cover    Tag    Index    Points    (inches)    millimeters    Metric (grams/sq meter) Weight Equivalent 16	40	22	37	33	3.2	.0032	0.081	60.2 gsm 18	45	24	41	37	3.6	.0036	0.092	67.72 gsm 20	50	28	46	42	3.8	.0038	0.097	75.2 gsm 24	60	33	56	50	4.8	.0048	0.12	90.3 gsm 28	70	39	64	58	5.8	.0058	0.147	105.35 gsm 31	81	45	73	66	6.1	.0061	0.155	116.63 gsm 36	90	50	82	75	6.8	.0068	0.173	135.45 gsm 40	100	56	93	83	7.3	.0073	0.185	150.5 gsm 43	110	60	100	90	7.4	.0074	0.188	161.78 gsm 47	120	65	108	97	8	.0078	0.198	176.83 gsm 53	135	74	122	110	9	.0085	0.216	199.41 gsm 58	146	80	134	120	9.5	.0092	0.234	218.22 gsm 65	165	90	150	135	10	.0095	0.241	244.56 gsm 67	170	93	156	140	10.5	.010	0.25	252.08 gsm 72	183	100	166	150	11	.011	0.289	270.9 gsm 82	208	114	189	170	14	.014	0.356	308.52 gsm 87	220	120	200	180	15	.015	0.38	312 gsm 105	267	146	244	220	18	.0175	0.445	385.06 gsm

GSM	Weight	Description 74	20lb bond/50lb text	Most often found in your everyday copy machine. 90	24lb bond/60lb text	Generally multipurpose paper used in the office printer. Also the most popular business letterhead or stationary weight. 105	28lb bond/70lb text	Perfect weight for brochures and presentations. Excellent for 2-sided printing with minimal show through. 120	32lb bond/80lb text	Perfect weight for brochures and presentations. Excellent for 2-sided printing with minimal show through, while being slightly heavier than the 28lb. 145	67lb Bristol	Often considered the lightest of the cardstocks, great for self mailers with a flexible "soft feel" quick drying surface. 165	90lb index	A durable cardstock with a smooth, hard surface for medium applications. 175	65lb cover	A sturdy stock with a superb "soft feel" fast drying surface. Great for postcards, menus and posters. 200	110lb index	Both 90 and 110lb index are the common weights for tabs, dividers and manila folders. The average weight of an index card for heavier applications. 215	80lb cover	A heavy cardstock, your most conventional business card weight. Available in a wide variety of textures and finishes. This sheet is printed on 80lb cover. 255	140lb index	For super heavy weight applications. 260	100lb cover	A noticeably heavier cardstock often used for flat cards or invitations. -71.174.188.32 (talk) 20:55, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Terminology and convoluted argument
This page is not an encyclopedic article, nor a potentially helpful description. It appears to be an argument, that "Paper density" means "the volume density of paper", whereas more normally "paper density" refers to the areal density of paper, also called the "paper weight", and also informally referred to at least in gsm contexts as "grammage". I think the article Grammage is inappropriately titled, and should be moved somewhere, to which this page (Paper density) should also redirect.

The argument presented in place of the introductory paragraph claims that ISO dictates that "Paper density" means "volume density". (Actually ISO is a commercial, semi-private organisation somewhere in Switzerland; it does not have the position to order humans to speak, write, or think the way it thinks they ought to, especially for a charge of 88 Swiss francs, but never mind.) Actually this is what ISO says, in defining its own terminology for the purposes of this specification:

(copying the swiss capitalisation) 3.3

apparent sheet density

mass per unit volume, expressed in grams per cubic centimetre, and calculated from the single sheet thickness (3.1)

3.4

apparent bulk density

mass per unit volume, expressed in grams per cubic centimetre, and calculated from the bulking thickness (3.2)

In other words they are distinguishing two methods of measuring the volume density of the paper, depending on whether you take the thickness of a sheet (as measured by some other complicated procedure), or whether you take the thickness of a pile of n sheets, including the n-1 spaces between the sheets when the sheets are stacked according to some other complicated procedure. This is perfectly reasonable, but tells us nothing about whether "paper density" normally refers to volume density or areal density. Since the latter is in practice the normal measure (precisely because "volume density" is ambiguous between the two meanings distinguished by ISO), this is what should be the subject of an article. Imaginatorium (talk) 07:51, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

What is density of kraft paper roll
Urgent requirement 103.213.202.248 (talk) 14:06, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

Actual density of paper
You'd think an article called "Paper density" would actually list the actual densities of different kinds of common paper and common paper items, as in per volume, and not simply be a stub stating the general formula how to calculate it. Different "weights" of paper tend to be of different thickness so the actual volume may not be available for people to calculate the density. The density information tends to be far more useful for calculation of total mass of e.g. books for a bookshelf than the gsm figures that one doesn't even know for one's books as the printers don't list it. 84.250.167.255 (talk) 12:52, 15 November 2023 (UTC)