Talk:Paper recycling

Things to Do

 * 1) Verify and update sources! Talk:Paper_recycling
 * 2) http://www.conservatree.org/learn/EnviroIssues/TreeStats.shtml
 * 3) Be sure to make use of the correct units when sighting sources. (As suggested by bz2 3 July 2006)
 * 4) Ensure a neutral point of view throughout!
 * 5) Update and add more visual aids. Talk:Paper_recycling
 * 6) Wikimedia Commons has very few seemingly relevant photos on this topic.
 * 7) I am going to take a picture of a recycling bin (in English) and add it for the time being. AdamT6 (talk) 21:26, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
 * 8) Add information about the actual process of paper recycling.

Replace the Picture
I think the article's main picture needs a replacement. The current one, showing a barge in the background carrying paper isn't that good and has very little to do with actual paper recycling. Any ideas? Canderra 01:01, 17 August 2006 (UTC)


 * It would be great if there was a picture of the inside of a recycling plant. There may be pictures of the slurry during the cleaning, or de-inking process.  I haven't found anything yet, but I'll continue looking. Xpanzion 04:11, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Past Discussions Regarding this Article's Neutrality

 * I corrected the spelling of these sections and am currently leaving them for posterity and historical purposes. AdamT6 (talk) 21:26, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Neutral Point of View?
In one episode of Penn & Teller: Bullshit! the hosts show that it is actually better for the environment to take down (and plant) new trees instead of recycling paper. The latter supposedly pollutes a lot and there aren't really any energy savings going on.

Could someone please look into these claims and add some counterpoints to the current article?


 * Firstly, it must be noted that the particular show mentioned is an entertainment show, factually speaking, it has on many occasions been derided by a number of scientists for distorting their scientific research and for making extremely dubious and often totally unproven claims.


 * Whereas there has been much discussion on this topic, basically all serious published research shows that recycled paper is a lot better for the environment. Put simply, the amount of energy that is required to chop the trees down, then transport them, then wood-chip them and then turn them into pulp makes recycled paper a lot more energy efficient and environmentally friendly. Also, new paper requires the use of extremely polluting chemicals like chlorine which are only required in either small amounts, or often not at all, in paper recycling bleaching.


 * Also, continually planted forests contribute to soil erosion and degradation as the nutrients are continually removed with the trees. This means that 'farmed' forests often require the use of large quantities of artificial fertilizers, the production, transportation and regular application of these is extremely energy intensive and environmentally damaging.


 * Selective use of statistics is often used in such TV shows and in such books to try to claim both paper and other recycling methods are supposedly less energy efficient than using raw materials, but no scientifically condoned research has ever shown any of the common recycling processes (i.e. aluminum, glass, paper, plastics & steel) to be less environmentally friendly or energy inefficient than raw material creation and disposal over the long term. On the contrary, basically all research studies show massive environmental and energy savings by recycling materials such as paper. More information on paper recycling efficiency from a more reputable source: here. Canderra 03:11, 6 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia actually has an article on Bullshit!, and it includes some criticisms of the show.Xpanzion 02:16, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


 * True life cycle analysis is very difficult. It strongly depends on where you draw your box and what question you want to answer.  For example, a modern Kraft mill makes all is own heat and electrical energy using a renewable energy source, the lignin.  On the other hand, paper recycling uses largely fossil energy from the grid.  So, to be fair, a box around a Kraft mill should be compared to a box around a recycling mill and its associated power plant.


 * While specific environmental impact metrics, e.g., air emissions, water emissions, greenhouse gases, etc., are important, I believe that we should look at fossil resource consumption as a strong indicator of sustainability. From this standpoint recycling is far worse than a Kraft mill.

"Environmental Effects"
Why does the "Environmental Effects" section focus mainly on the views of a single politically minded economist?

There are many, many academic studies and a lot of actual unbiased research on this subject (the vast majority of which completely disagrees with Steven Landsburg's claims), yet a politically motivated economist with no actual research studies on the matter to his name is presented as a leading figure in the field?

The current layout of the section appears to me to be extremely POV driven. How about replacing this individual's views with some scientifically conducted and peer reviewed research on the matter. Canderra 18:26, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I really wonder what is this economist doing in this section, as if his theory is somehow encyclopedic, accepted in the academic world or relevant to the issue.


 * I fear it is because of an attempt by several editors to aggressively push their negative point of view regarding recycling in general. Despite the fact that their are millions of economists with millions of different theories, this economist "Steven Landsburg", whose views in this area, as you note, are not in anyway universally or even widely accepted in the academic world and who is also quite connected to a political party, appears on almost every article regarding recycling making claims which are pretty much always the exact opposite of claims made by recycling supporters. Unfortunately if anyone ever removes any of his (usually unproven and non-peer reviewed) claims they are always instantly reverted. Canderra 05:55, 17 January 2007 (UTC)


 * The economist is a critic of paper recycling, his comments should not be in the "Environmental effects" section. I made the "Criticism" section separate from "Environmental effects" section because criticisms include more than just environmental issues.  I hope this will also resolve the problem with Landburg's claims.  I realize that too much attention may still be focused on this one person, but the best way to solve that problem is by adding more information from other verifiable sources. Xpanzion 05:15, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Where exactly is the benefit?
I think that I'm missing something important here, because unlike aluminum recycling which means vastly less environmental damage from bauxite mining and electricity to smelt it into aluminum, I'm missing the benefit of paper recycling. It would make great sense if old-growth trees were being harvested for pulp, but don't the companies have vast pulp-tree farms where they cultivate fast-growing trees for harvest, and then replant so that they will have the next crop? How is this any different than farming vegetables? And then there is the issue that the used paper needs to be bleached, which I'm sure winds up in the lakes and streams no matter what the paper manufacturers want to tell us. Does it take more or less bleach for a ton of used paper than for fresh pulp? -- David 09:10 03 December 2008 (UTC)


 * That depends on what bleach is being used. Hydrogen peroxide would have degraded to water and oxygen by the time it hits any lakes or streams. It's so safe they use it bleach sugar white. 203.27.72.5 (talk) 05:00, 1 March 2012 (UTC)


 * The big paper companies that own millions of acres of forest land and huge woodyards and debarking operations in rural areas want people to think what you say about recycled mills is true. They have huge investments in their current operations and are located in the wrong places to make recycled paper. It would cost at least 400 to 500 million dollars to build a new recycled paper operation today.


 * I work in a urban recycled papermill near Chicago. We use a combined state of the art technology brought over from Europe. We are the only mill of this type in the world right now. We do not use any bleach in our deink process. We keep thousands of tons of old newspaper(ONP), office waste paper and old magazines(OMG) out of the landfills every year and make beautiful shiny new paper for magazines, newspaper inserts, labels and book covers. We use much less energy and are as environmentally friendly a papermill as any other in the world. -- Jim October 2009

Jhj
Hjjh 103.172.29.6 (talk) 16:53, 6 November 2022 (UTC)