Talk:Papoose (rapper)

Is Papoose a Muslim?
I know it clearly states in the bottom of the page that he is a Five Percenter but maybe he was a Muslim but converted to a Five Percenter. He came from Nigeria so I'm thinking he might have been a Muslim because most people from Nigeria are Muslims. So I think there should be some information about how he was Muslim but then converted. I don't know but I need some feedback because I don't know.


 * I looked around the net and their is no information about him being a Muslim at anytime. It's possible that he was a Muslim and converted to being a Five Percenter but until we have a source confirming it I don't think we should put it on the page LDNPRS (talk) 21:07, 27 June 2009

GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT, MOST NIGERIANS ARE NOT MUSLIMS

Gino Green Global
Shouldn't you guys add something about how GGG seems to be the only brand he knows? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.94.93.234 (talk) 17:43, 14 April 2007 (UTC).
 * sure, find a verifiable source for it. on second thoughts, actually, don't. and kindly sign your posts. W guice 18:30, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Uhh guys..
"He is considered by many to be the savior of Rap." come on, that's no fair. take it out.


 * It is a bit biased, but hell, we all know he's really good. But yes, edit needed. I'd do it if I knew anything about him.


 * I went to his website, it links to this wiki pegae....EAB 22:35, 1 November 2006 (UTC)


 * He has been called the best rapper in the world by fellow rappers Jae Millz and Gravy. <- I removed this since it had no source. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.234.97.12 (talk) 18:21, 19 December 2006 (UTC).

Controversy
Unless there's a problem with the information or my source I added which I know there isn't please don't delete it. Just make adjustments if you find grammatical errors or add to it if you have new information? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Debo7 (talk • contribs) 23:50, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The problem is that there is no evidence of any "controversy". i'm removing the headers and letting the fact that he has released the track stand alone.  tomasz.  00:51, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Have you listened to the track? It sounds like he's admitting involvement in the shooting. To be honest the history of their relationship should have its own spot with alot more detail than whats in this article. This seems to go back to when both of these rappers where trying to get on. It probably should be labeled "beef" but that didn't sound very encyclopediac to me, so I labeled controversy. But this definately should stand alone. (Debo7 (talk) 03:52, 3 February 2008 (UTC)).

Beef With Cassidy
I removed the section about the beef with Cassidy because Fake Hustlers isn't a diss; Papoose even gives a shout out to Cass in the song.

Pap and Cassidy are also both on a Busta Rhymes song called Psycho Psycho or something.

ya pap dont got no beef wit cassidy cuz when he got into a fight wit joey ass crack he was goin to see cassidy so he friends wit cassidy iight yall BE BREEZY!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.41.184.116 (talk) 19:47, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

N-O-T Banger?
Papoose says this at the beginning of a bunch of his tracks... anyone know what the fuck it means? Lionelxhutz 04:29, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Nation Of Thugacation - he also refers to it(the organization) as thuga in many of his verses

Removed image
I removed an external image that provided no copyright background. An image with a well settled background should be used, and it should be uploaded to Wikipedia servers in case an external server goes down. Stiles 22:16, 8 April 2006 (UTC) It means Nation of Thugacation

Conflicts?
"African born rapper" and "Born... in Brooklyn" kind of conflict with each other, and they're the beginning two sentences. Also, it says "He was first introduced to the public in 1998" but on the sidebar his "years active" are 2004-present. Can someone who knows fix this stuff?

FIXED. He was born in Africa and immigrated to america when he was young and grew up in Brooklyn —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.192.93.52 (talk • contribs)

Fixed not only means to re-add the info that was previously removed, but to cite them with some external links.  Lajbi  Holla @ me   Who's the boss?  03:28, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Where in Africa was he born? Isn't "Africa" too vague?

http://www.answers.com/topic/papoose-rapper http://www.mtv.com/news/yhif/papoose/ both say he was born in Africa but no one knows exactly which country

papoose is from sierre leone in africa it says that on this website

Possible Appearance?
Perhaps I'm wrong, but is he the Papoose who was on the Kool G Rap Album "Roots Of Evil"? The track is called "Home Sweet Funeral Home"
 * According to Amazon, it is him.  Lajbi  Holla @ me   Who's the boss?  13:01, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's him. I read it in an interview with Allhiphop.com.- Hasafienda 4:58 (UTC) 8 May 2006

Clarification
At the beginning of the article it says that he was born in Nigeria but raised in Brooklyn and then at the start of the bio it says he was born and raised in Brooklyn. Anyone want to clarify? Zapzoid October 13, 2006 ""he was born in Sierra Leone but moved to brooklyn as a baby.

Birthday
In "Wake up Everybody" He stated he is a Pisces and his body started growing in March

Bio
The bio bit looks like it has been lifted from another website ("definition of a true mc" etc) or written by a fan. Can we get an edit? Pennywisepeter 15:30, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

As you can see.. I put SOURCE: underneath it, if you want to get even more personal with it you can put the direct link from the violator website. The bio was written by dj kay slay.

Today I updated the bio again from the violator website & put the source in it, people need to stop editing it since it's a direct quote from kay slay.

Are you, Ulrich is high? If not, then you are plaigarizing his material by posting it here. You can't do that. If you are, then once you post the text here, you lost your copyright on it. You can't post original copyrighted articles on Wikipedia and not allow free access to the public to change the text of the article. Sinned

You can't say things like "the hottest upcoming artist in the world" in an encyclopedia. That's an opinion, not an objective fact. If you want to add "His Internet following is tremendous and he has the same amount of downloads as most platinum artist." then you have to back it up with a credible reference. Where did you get the data for this claim?

Feel free to update the number of songs he's written and fix spelling on their names and whatever else you want to do, but Papoose's Wikipedia article is part of an encyclopedia, not a marketing campaign. Sinned 04:30, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Too many songs
This isnt a fan site, papooseonline.com is a fan site, this is supposed to be "semi-factual" so stop adding so many songs to the list for no reason. - Ya I agree, far too many songs on this page are listed ~Tydamann

Old Associates of Papoose
Papoose had childhood associates he rapped with since a very young age When he got the call from Kool G he kept it secret from his associates The 2 associates made up WolfPack Entertainment (not to be confused with WolfPak) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.116.75.190 (talk) 16:17, 21 January 2007 (UTC).

Papoose song
Does anyone know the song of Pap's that has the chorus saying 'i make funk flex *drops bomb*, kay slay *does something* and clue go *firetruck siren*?' I heard it on youtube but forgot the title. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 207.190.115.199 (talk) 00:52, 10 February 2007 (UTC).

nevermind it's called 'mr. mixshow'

Peacock Words
the person responsible for the intro is a crazed fan, it's mostly opinionated and the list of collaborations is still way too much. Someone PLEASE clean this article up its called breath freestyle

Name
Maybe you should explain where he got his stage name from. Who would call himself a Papoose... I'd like to know at least.

come on at least read the article

He Was not born in Africa!
It says on his official website "Born and Raised in Brooklyn". He is not from Africa, and his official website should be the most trusted about this. People need to look at his website so that this should never show up again in the article.

-- actually he was born in Africa, but only lived there for <1 year, then moved to bklyn. So really he was BORN in Africa, but it was at such a young age it's just considered "born and raised in bklyn"
 * "at such a young age it's just considered "born and raised in bklyn""... that's not how the convention is at all. if you are born somewhere, you are born there. however, as the first comment here says, his official website, which is the most reliable source of info about him, says he was born in BK. If you can find a source that says he was born in Africa, by all means bring it to our attention. otherwise everybody stop changing this information. tomasz.  13:00, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

== He was born in Sierra Leone, and yes he did live there for only a year, he moved to baybridge when he was a baby. As for the song, "born and raised" thats a james brown sample, and yes james was bor and raised in new york, not papoose.
 * that's not what the sources say (about Papoose, not James Brown).  tomasz.  18:37, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Did he Die?
I heard He died when i read the aritcle that he had died on feb. 7 of this year is this true?
 * no, he didn't die, it was just probaly fat joe aka joey ass crack . best,  tomasz.  07:30, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Sean Bell
It says Sean Bell was shot "50 times". He was not. He was shot 3 times. Why is this on here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.38.196.202 (talk • contribs)
 * According to Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly, veteran officer Michael Oliver emptied two full magazines, firing 31 shots from a 9mm handgun and pausing to reload at least once.[9] Some shots hit nearby homes and a train station. Five of the seven officers investigating the club were involved in the shooting. Detective Paul Headley fired one round, Officer Michael Carey fired three, Officer Marc Cooper fired four, Officer Gescard Isnora fired eleven, and Officer Michael Oliver fired thirty one times.

well that's not what Sean Bell's article says. Maybe you have a source that contradicts all the others in that page that we don't know about yet? Anyway, it's on here because this is an article about Papoose, who said in his song that S.B. was shot fifty times, and even if he was wrong we would still have it because we are writing about Papoose and what he said in his song.  tomasz.  10:46, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Streetsweepers Presents Papoose.PNG
Image:Streetsweepers Presents Papoose.PNG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 05:06, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Parents
I know Papoose's mom is named Irene Mackie because in the song Headed To Da Bank Right Now he said "I spent 9 months in Irene's stomach" so dats got to his mama but I don't know bout his dad —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.41.184.116 (talk) 18:03, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Notability
This article does not assert notability. Per Music: A musician or ensemble (note that this includes a band, singer, rapper, orchestra, DJ, musical theatre group, etc.) is notable if it meets any one of the following criteria: 1) (Is) the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent from the musician/ensemble itself and reliable.... 2) Has had a charted hit on any national music chart. 3) Has had a record certified gold or higher... 4) Has received non-trivial coverage in a reliable source of an international concert tour... 5) Has released two or more albums on a major label or one of the more important indie labels... 6) Contains at least one member who was once a part of or later joined a band that is otherwise notable... 7) Has become the most prominent representative of a notable style or of the local scene of a city.... 8) Has won or been nominated for a major music award, such as a Grammy, Juno, Mercury or Grammis award. 9) Has won or placed in a major music competition. 10) Has performed music for a work of media that is notable...  11) Has been placed in rotation nationally by any major radio network.  12) Has been the subject of a half hour or longer broadcast across a national radio or TV network. Another editor removed the notable tag saying that "there are an embarrassment of assertions of notability in this article." Clarification would be appreciated. - Mdsummermsw (talk) 15:51, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Comment. i was the editor that removed that tag. this article definitely asserts notability; i fear you aren't reading hard enough. WP:BAND #1 alone is enough to keep based on a significant body of third-party press coverage which i will be willing to hook you up with slightly later when i'm not at work.  tomasz.  15:57, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The article does not assert notability. The artist might or might not be "the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent from the musician/ensemble itself and reliable". The article, however, clearly does not include such coverage. The current refs are:
 * 1) an mp3 on a filesharing network. (Not a permissable source, let alone a reliable one.)
 * 2) a blog entry. (Not a reliable source.)
 * 3) a discussion thread. (Not a reliable source.)
 * 4) a download link, most likely not legal, for a non-notable mixtape.
 * 5) a download link, most likely not legal, for a non-notable mixtape.
 * 6) a download link, most likely not legal, for a non-notable mixtape.
 * 7) a download link, most likely not legal, for a non-notable mixtape.
 * 8) a download link, most likely not legal, for a non-notable mixtape.
 * 9) a download link, most likely not legal, for a non-notable mixtape.
 * 10) a download link, most likely not legal, for a non-notable mixtape.
 * 11) a download link, most likely not legal, for a non-notable mixtape.
 * 12) a download link, most likely not legal, for a non-notable mixtape.
 * 13) a download link, most likely not legal, for a non-notable mixtape.
 * 14) the artist's personal website. (Reliable for bare facts that are unlikely to be challenged (e.g., birth date), not evidence of notability.)
 * The article needs to assert notability. It doesn't. - Mdsummermsw (talk) 17:08, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * i think you're confused about what assert means. The article makes claims for his notability. Your issue is with the sources that back them up. There is plenty of assertion, just not a lot of WP:RS backup. As i have mentioned, i will supply this later.  tomasz.  17:30, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I understand the word "assert". The article does not claim that he is "the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent from the musician/ensemble itself and reliable". It does not say it directly -- along the lines of "Lengthy articles about Papoose were published in the New York Times and Time." It does not say it indirectly -- such as by listing them as references. This brings me back to the original question: Where does the article assert notability? - Mdsummermsw (talk) 19:38, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Allow me to refactor the page a little.

Some assertion for you (in the article as of now ):
 * The bit where it says he signed to Jive Records for a record $1.5 million;
 * The bit that says he has "become known" for charity work (which is vague, yes, but is still assertion of notability);
 * The bit that says he's released 19+ albums on another notable label, Streetsweepers Entertainment: yes, you may gloss them individually as "non-notable mixtape", but i rather think 20 of them on a notable record label may constitute slightly more than the sum of their parts;
 * The bit that lists his guest or collaborative appearances on tracks by no fewer than ten other notable artists, including two where the tracks themselves are sufficiently notable to have their own articles, having broken the Billboard Hot 100 Top 30 and Top 20, respectively (charted hit(s) on a national music chart).

Before you say something to the effect of "yes, but guesting on ten notable artists' records and signing a record deal to a notable label aren't WP:BAND criteria", please pause for a minute to ask yourself: "do i think these things might be within the spirit of WP:BAND if not always precisely within the letter?"

If, however, you are still determined that notability must be ascertained letter-by-letter:
 * Here is the outcome of the last time someone put this thru' AfD, with several compelling reasons to keep. (NB: i would be the first to admit that being kept once at AfD in no way confers any automatic "keep" status, because the article may have changed or, indeed, the first lot of voters may simply have been wrong; however, i feel the opposite is true in this case, that the reasons given at AfD were valid then and remain so now.)
 * He was on the cover of pioneering UK hip-hop magazine Hip-Hop Connection's October, 2006 issue (dual cover in two editions, shared with Saigon), with accompanying 6-page spread inside. Scans available on request.
 * Here is a satisfyingly detailed All Music Guide biography, existence of which is generally considered to fulfil criterion 1 of WP:BAND in itself; it also handily makes mention of the fact that he was personally endorsed in The Village Voice by Rakim. i'm sure one of our N.Y. heads can probably track down a copy of that with relative ease.
 * Here is a half-hour+ interview/broadcast segment, of which he was the subject, on notable national UK radio network BBC Radio 1Xtra. (Yep, that show also includes stuff on Jim Jones and a whole load of other music; but Papoose's section is the final half-hour.)
 * Here is a non-trivial published work on him in hip-hop press trailblazer XXL, a source independent from the musician himself and reliable, who call Papoose "one of the most intricate and political wordsmiths in rap". The piece also mentions his status as two-time winner of the Justo Mixtape Awards ("the Grammys of the street", as MTV has it). Here's corroboration of same in another non-trivial published work on the website of reliable independent source Vibe magazine. Here are the nominations for the 2008 Awards, in which you can see he has once again been nominated, this time in the category of "Best East Coast Mixtape Artist".
 * Here he is again in XXL, this time the bona fide paper version, on the cover, with a selection of other new talent, under the headline "Leaders of the New School".
 * Here's a list of winners of the 2007 Urban Music Awards, including wins for Papoose in the categories "Best Hip-Hop Act", "Artist of the Year" (as sponsored by MySpace) and "Best Collaboration" for "Touch It" (the latter a shared award... um, obviously).
 * Here's a short yet non-trivial piece on him from reliable independent source Rolling Stone magazine. Seems to have appeared in the paper version, too!
 * Here's a piece, again from the Village Voice, though admittedly this time from their blog section, discussing "50 Shots" in the context of the Sean Bell shooting. Here's MP3.com's take on the same track and issue, which actually quotes the same VV piece.
 * Track reviews (1, 2) and a free track giveaway and article from Pitchfork Media.
 * Here's part of an interview with him concerning his debut album for short-lived HH mag Scratch's March/April 2007 issue. The full article is to be found in the paper edition.
 * Here's noted HH writer Byron Crawford on Pap's single "Bang It Out".
 * Here's a concert review-slash-career-overview from reliable independent source The New York Times. And, again from NYT, another piece on "50 Shots".
 * Here's a feature from reliable independent source Prefix Magazine.
 * Here's an interview with BET's website...

...now, should i find some more ways he passes WP:BAND or can we remove that tag permanently and start folding this bit of the talk page into the articlespace?  tomasz.  21:58, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
 * If you merely added the sources above to the article, there wouldn't be a discussion.
 * If you merely added the sources above to the article, there wouldn't be a discussion.

1) (Is) the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent from the musician/ensemble itself and reliable....
 * That said, note that the article does not assert notability in several of the ways you mention:
 * "signed to Jive Records for a record $1.5 million" is not notable. The note at WP:MUSIC "Has released two or more albums on a major label" effectively states, in spirit, that being signed is not notable in and of itself.
 * "has 'become known' for charity work (which is vague," Very vague. Known to whom? *I* am known for various things, but I'm not notably known. Reliable, third party sources discussing this would be another mater.
 * "(20 mixtapes on Streetsweeper) more than the sum of their parts" Actually, this is the piece that kept me from putting it up for a speedy. It's unclear to me. Certainly they are not individually notable. Streetsweeper's notability seems to hinge not on the mixtapes alone but on the artists they've incubated. If this were the only assertion of notability, I'd be a bit flummoxed. Reliable, third party sources discussing this would be another mater.
 * "guest or collaborative appearances on tracks by no fewer than ten other notable artists" This is not persuasive to me in the least. I don't see appearing on a notable track as making one notable, at least until we have a category for the studio musicians of Motown and such. In fact, I feel the spirit of this is very much meant to avoid articles on studio musicians and backup singers who are not otherwise notable, notability not being inherited and all that. Again, reliable, third party sources discussing this would be another mater.
 * Rather than continually trying to establish notability here, can we agree to establish it here? - Mdsummermsw (talk) 15:07, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Already ahead of you. I'm working on the sources (and eventually a new version of the article) in my sandbox.
 * "If you merely added the sources above to the article, there wouldn't be a discussion..."
 * I could say the same for you having done a little basic Google research.
 * As regards the notability on the points you don't find notable: no, being signed in itself is not notable, but it's likely a record-breaking deal with a very notable label is: that's the whole point about the spirit versus the letter of WP:BAND i was talking about. Obviously there's no criterion for "signing a record-breaking deal with a notable label" because such situations are so uncommon, but i'd argue it's this very rarity that makes it notable.
 * On his charity work: Again, you are talking about assertion of notability versus establishment of it. His charity work is asserted, not established. I've had speedies declined for articles that assert ten times less notability than this, whether they established any at all or not.
 * On the subject of his collaborative appearances, collaborations of this kind in rap music and those of studio musicians and backup singers are in a totally different league. One lot are hired guns, the others are guest artists: their status is equal to the main performer, not part of their entourage or backing band.
 * Anyway. Since i believe i have substantially proven his notability if only through the press coverage, i think we can declare this discussion firmly closed and i will continue to get on with adding in the sources.  tomasz.  17:34, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Pap's Birthday
Now I don't know if this is a true fact or not but who changed Pap's birthday to March 5th now I'm a Papoose fan and I know his birthday is on December 31st so I'm gonna change it back alright yall. BE BREEZY!

Ya actually he was born in March cuz I listened to dat son Wake Up Everybody and he sasid he was a Pisces and his body started growin in March.


 * Can someone point to any reliable source that would prove this? or ANY reliable source that states his birthday at all? Cypher056E (talk) 08:56, 12 April 2008 (UTC)


 * If his body started growing in March, he'd be born in December, obviously. 69.143.121.199 (talk) 21:46, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Request for Third Opinion
(The following was copied from User_talk:Debo7 for purposes of this request):


 * Your edits to Papoose (rapper)

Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, your recent edits  have been reverted as they could be seen to be defamatory or potentially libellous. Take a look at our welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. - Mdsummermsw (talk) 15:35, 19 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm well aware of the definition of libel and I don't see how it applies, and if it trully did apply why not modify it, instead of removing sourced information? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Debo7 (talk • contribs) 16:33, March 19, 2008


 * The removed information was sourced to online forum posts. Under policy "Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons — whether the material is negative, positive, or just questionable — should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion, from Wikipedia articles, talk pages, user pages, and project space." - Mdsummermsw (talk) 18:33, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

WTF are you talking about, thats not where those links take you, look at it again.
 * The link leads to the song with forum posts. Either you are adding your interpretation of the song (original research) or those of the forum postings (not a reliable source). I am again removing the poorly sourced claims per policy. I encourage you to closely read that policy. - Mdsummermsw (talk) 20:25, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia, we would like to remind you not to attack other editors. Please comment on the contributions and not the contributors. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. - Mdsummermsw (talk) 20:21, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * [[Image:Information.svg|25px]] Please do not add unreferenced or poorly referenced information, especially if controversial, to articles or any other page on Wikipedia about living persons. - Mdsummermsw (talk) 13:42, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * [[Image:Information.svg|25px]] Please do not add unreferenced or poorly referenced information, especially if controversial, to articles or any other page on Wikipedia about living persons. - Mdsummermsw (talk) 13:42, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Everything I've said is a certified fact and well known to all who know ANYTHING about current events in hip hop, my sources are fine wish makes your reverts vandalism.
 * What people "know" is irrelevant. Per policy, this material must be well sourced. It is not.
 * Content disputes are not vandalism. Vandal
 * Before reverting this again, I would urge you to read WP:3RR. If you revert my edits, in whole or in part, 3 times within 24 hours (or in a way which is seen as an attempt to circumvent the rule), you may be blocked. My reverts of your edits, to remove unsourced or poorly sourced controversial material about living persons, are exempt from this provision while the case is being considered on the noticeboard.
 * Additionally, do not remove tags, such as, without resolving or addressing the issue. This article is up for discussion, therefore the tag should remain. Thank you. - Mdsummermsw (talk) 18:14, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Additionally, do not remove tags, such as, without resolving or addressing the issue. This article is up for discussion, therefore the tag should remain. Thank you. - Mdsummermsw (talk) 18:14, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Who gives you the right to determine the quality of the listed sources, my source is song done by papoose and an interview by papoose, what better sources cant you get? Also you clearly lack the needed knowledge to edit this article so why are you here? If you knew hip hop like you knew wikipedia guidelines we wouldn't be having this discusion, but since we are, how about a compromise, I'll put up the correct info and you can add your notice to it.
 * Sorry, WP:BLP is not adaptable to compromise. - Mdsummermsw (talk) 15:59, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

This is absurd I changing it back; and just so you know, to remove accurate and well sourced information sounds an awful lot like vandalism.
 * Please allow the BLP noticeboard to handle this issue before you revert this again. Additionally, your last edit made other changes to the article that have nothing to do with this dispute. Please check what you are changing. Finally, before reverting this again, I would caution you that you are on the verge of WP:3RR. - Mdsummermsw (talk) 21:08, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Please allow the BLP noticeboard to handle this issue before you revert this again. Additionally, your last edit made other changes to the article that have nothing to do with this dispute. Please check what you are changing. Finally, before reverting this again, I would caution you that you are on the verge of WP:3RR. - Mdsummermsw (talk) 21:08, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

(End of copied text) - Mdsummermsw (talk) 13:00, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Third opinion
I am responding to a request which has been listed for five days on the Third opinion project page.

I don't know a thing about rappers but I do know Wikipedia's Biographies of living persons policy, which requires reliable sources. Gossip columns, chat forums, fan sites and blogs are not acceptable.

See Biographies of living persons. — Athaenara ✉  09:55, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

This page is not up todate
People who are not well versed in the current events in hip hop should not be editing this page, Papoose has had two beefs in the last month and has been quoted in several sources that he is marrying fellow MC Remi Ma. There are several other things but none of them are listed here. The only thing thats ever updated is his mix tapes, this is getting ridiculous.
 * correction: he's specifically denied being engaged to Remy Ma in spite of rumours to the contrary. Anyway, If you have "several sources", you should quote them: the lack of satisfactory sources has been the only reason info has been removed so far. Reliable sources are essential to verify stuff to be true here, especially when the material might violate biography of living persons guidelines. Also, please add new stuff to the bottom of talk pages, and please sign your posts.  tomasz.  18:49, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

I put a sourced an MTV interview what else do I need to stop your vandalism? ```` —Preceding unsigned comment added by Debo7 (talk • contribs) 19:34, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * yes, the MTV source was good and is now part of the article (see the end of the "Biography" section). Also please mind WP:CIVIL in regard to accusing people of vandalism. Ta,  tomasz.  19:47, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Was else would you call someone removing common knowledge other than vandalism? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Debo7 (talk • contribs) 19:49, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * i'd call it "cleaning up the encyclopedia", "following policy" and "making sure nobody sues us".  tomasz.  19:51, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

What better source could I use other than actual inteveiws from the artist? Cause thats what my sources are, actual audio from the artist. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Debo7 (talk • contribs) 20:05, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * the fact that they're interviews isn't what's in question, it's more like the reliability of the publication they appear in. Read WP:RS for a better idea, but as a rule of thumb, magazines are good, newspapers are good, cable music channels are good, blogs aren't good enough, and "here is the track itself, that is evidence it exists" is certainly not good enough as it relies on original research on the part of us as editors.  tomasz.  09:00, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

I didn't get it from a blog but a respected hip hip site.
 * what "respected hip hip [sic] site"? the sources you are adding are [this and this, from a site we [[Defsounds|don't]] seem to have an article on. And again please sign your posts by typing ~ . You may also want to see if anybody else agrees with you before you alter it again.  tomasz.  18:30, 1 April 2008 (UTC)


 * User:Debo7 asks (in relation to sources about living people) "What do you mean by water tight?"
 * Answer: i mean as reliable as possible by Wikipedia guidelines. Controversial material about people who are alive should have the best possible sources. E.g.: XXL, The Source, Rolling Stone: good; forums, blogs, mp3 sites: not.  tomasz.  17:41, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Content dispute
I have requested Admin intervention on this issue. - Mdsummermsw (talk) 13:47, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * cheers, i didn't know quite how to do that.  tomasz.  13:50, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Notified AIV again. - Mdsummermsw (talk) 13:40, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I need somebody who knows the Wikipedia rules and guidelines to report these two vandals
Mdsummermsw (talk) tomasz They reapetedly removing factual information, I don't have the time to go over all the guidelines but I hope somebody who already has this knowledge will assist me in making sure those two can't edit this page any longer. This article is not up to date, therefore rendering less informative than I ewould expect from Wiki. --Debo7 (talk) 18:13, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * fyi: to whoever reports tomasz, make sure you know his actual username is User:w guice.  tomasz.  18:15, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I have taken this to the Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents for an authoritative answer to this dispute.
 * While I understand that you believe your sources are good enough and that our removal of the material is vandalism, this is a content dispute, not vandalism. You were previously blocked for violating the WP:3RR. Our good faith removals of the controversial material are not subject to this rule under wikipedia's policy on biographical information about living persons. The BLP noticeboard has not responded to this issue, the administrator's noticeboard certainly will. - Mdsummermsw (talk) 19:25, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

HIS MOMMA!!
Waszup wikipedians now his momma's name is Irene cuz in his song Headed To Da Bank Right Now he say I spent nine months in Irene's stomach so dats got to be his momma listen to da song if u dont believe me/ ITS ON HIS NEW MIXTAPE BUILD OR DESTROY —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cb4ondafloor (talk • contribs) 21:43, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Cite needed tags for mother and birth date
Yeah, it seems stupid. Why would we need cites for something so trivial?

Well, because so many editors seem to have their own personal knowledge of these basic facts BUT they disagree. So, we have minor edit battles (not quite edit wars) over them, with the date and name changing on a regular basis, though none of the cited sources give any hint on either issue.

Leaving the info out won't work, because someone will pull one of these "facts" out of their butts and plop it in the article. So, I'm tagging both with cite needed tags and will demand a cite from anyone who wants to change either one. Sooner or later, someone will provide one, either to correct the wrong info or to remove the tags. - Mdsummermsw (talk) 19:52, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

His Mother

Waszup I am giving you guys a source. So don't think I just made it up. Irene Mackie is his mother. In the song Goin To Da Bank Right Now on his new mixtape Build or Destroy, he says "I spent nine months in Irene's stomach". If you don't believe go download the song its called Goin To Da Bank Right Now. The verse were he states that Irene is his mother is below.

These little kids don't want it man I'm cold blooded left that label took da hole budget owe me money fool you goin run it shake you fo a deuce and kill you fa 400 I spent nine months in Irene's stomach it's da kid wit da best verse on Touch It touch it bring it back cock it turn it squeeze that bust that matic holy nigga dat could throw a big record over and make it sound hard like big set it over sippin Don P it's da Don P A.P.O.O. fa sho' S.E. black cully pale black boots black boots used to wear the triple fat goose fat goose that boy get gully dats truth dats truth yall know what I would say Papoose Pa-Poose.

His Birth

He was born in March but I am not sure if it was the 5th of March. In his song Wake Up Everybody he states he is a Pisces and his body started growing in March. So he was born in March but I am not sure if it was March 5th.

CB4 0N DA MOTHA FUCKIN FLOOR (talk) 14:56, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


 * That's actually original research.  Wisdom89  ( T |undefined /  C ) 18:57, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The main problem is it assumes the songs are 100% true and autobiographical. Additionally, his mother's last name is assumed to be the same as his; going from "Pisces" to March 5 is a leap of faith and the year of his birth comes out of nowhere. The article can certainly survive without these particular details, especially if they are unsourced. - Mdsummermsw (talk) 13:03, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
 * So the back and forth on the birth date continues. I'm yanking the birth date and mom's name as unsourced. I'll revert any future unsourced additions on them from here on out. If anyone can provide a source, that would be great. Otherwise, wikipedia simply doesn't have the information. - Mdsummermsw (talk) 14:24, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * So the back and forth on the birth date continues. I'm yanking the birth date and mom's name as unsourced. I'll revert any future unsourced additions on them from here on out. If anyone can provide a source, that would be great. Otherwise, wikipedia simply doesn't have the information. - Mdsummermsw (talk) 14:24, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * So the back and forth on the birth date continues. I'm yanking the birth date and mom's name as unsourced. I'll revert any future unsourced additions on them from here on out. If anyone can provide a source, that would be great. Otherwise, wikipedia simply doesn't have the information. - Mdsummermsw (talk) 14:24, 29 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I can see where the idea of December would come in (body started growing in March - therefor born in December, nine months later), but Pap claims to be Pisces. 69.143.121.199 (talk) 21:48, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

Papoose's first appearance
I did some research & listened to chunk's album 'Break 'Em Off A Chunk' it isn't this papoose from BK, the papoose on the chunk album his called J. Streets AKA papoose, J. Streets was called papoose back in the 90's & still today (PROOF: J. Streets has HIS own MYSPACE type 'j streets' in google click the 1st link) please don't get him confused with Papoose From Brooklyn, Some one sort it out?... Papoose From BK First Appearance still is on 'Kool G Rap's Roots Of Evil' from what we know... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.11.163.139 (talk) 16:12, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 02:15, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 December 2017
>!-- Would like to change name to Remy Ma's Henchman Grimsonhere (talk) 06:44, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: That name is not used in reliable sources, and it may violate Biographies of living persons. Gulumeemee (talk) 09:46, 10 December 2017 (UTC)