Talk:Paralympic Games/Archive 1

Name
"The name derives from the Greek "para" ("beside" or "alongside") and thus refers to a competition held in parallel with the Olympic Games. No relation with paralysis or paraplegia was intended."

Is there a citation for this assertion? It makes no sense, given that the Games were created expressly for disabled athletes.


 * Right, but they happen at the same time. I didn't know that, but it seems to make sense to me. They happen at the same time as the more well-known games, so I don't see the difficulty you're having. Vincent Vecera 11:53, 16 March 2006 (UTC)


 * The IPC has this to say: The word "Paralympic" derives from the Greek preposition "para" ("beside" or "alongside") and the word "Olympics" (the Paralympics being the parallel Games to the Olympics). The word Paralympic was originally a pun combining 'paraplegic' and 'Olympic', however with the inclusion of other disability groups and the close associations with the Olympic Movement, it now represents 'parallel' and 'Olympic' to illustrate how the two movements exist side by side . (quote from About the IPC)


 * Given that the original "Para-" did refer to disability, perhaps the sentence should be amended to state "No relation with paralysis or paraplegia is intended. Eron 14:22, 16 March 2006 (UTC)"


 * I added the cite, and a few others. Eron 15:35, 16 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid that this is a mess. The statements about the derivation of the name, if not acutely conflicting, are apparently conflicting, and read more as a snippet of an ongoing debate between contributors than as an coherent piece of prose. I'm introducing a possible alternative wording. Hope it's acceptible --Che Gannarelli (talk) 10:52, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Is there really any need to show an ugly Industrial Unit as the "headquarters" ? 212.182.173.127 (talk) 17:07, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Wheelchair Racing
It appears that Wheelchair racing is an exhibition sport at the Summer Olympics and a sport at the summer Paralympics, and competitors in the Category:Wheelchair racers (by country) mostly take part in both. So the category should be linked to sportspersons categories for both ie to Category:Paralympic competitors by sport as well as to Category:Olympic competitors by sport. Have done that, but to link the category by country similarly. Hugo999 (talk) 02:44, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Classification
I added the Classification section as it explains an important aspect of the paralympics whose novelty is confusing too many people. Libyansamarkand

Merge proposal
Merge proposal Seems like 2006_Winter_Paralympics_medal_table would fit with this topic (or its' redirection) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sultec (talk • contribs) 07:54, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Bad idea, that is a able for a specific Games and should remain seperate, much like 2006 Winter Olympics medal table or any of the other medal table articles that exist e.g. 2008 Summer Paralympics medal table. Basement12 (T.C) 11:06, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Sounds reasonable, merge flag removed. --Sultec (talk) 06:04, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

List of medals
Can we add a list of medals like the regular Olympics page has? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.203.149.219 (talk) 06:03, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

History
It appears to me that the history section repeats itself don't want to edit without discussion though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.179.7.118 (talk) 04:46, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Unsuitable language
This is supposed to be an encyclopedia article, so please refrain from stuff like this (which I deleted):

'' Sir Philip Craven, President of the International Paralympic Committee, states, “The paralympic movement inspires people both with and without a disability to interact in the same global family, enjoy equal social rights and build a harmonious world together.” The Paralympic Games continue to evolve with time. They give a chance for disabled athletes all over the world to come together and compete for the same thing, to strive for the best. The Paralympics offer hope, but more importantly a chance to take action. They hold no limits or boundaries only never ending possibilities for athletes all over the world. '' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.198.236.184 (talk) 04:29, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Sports and Classification
This is not a 'winter olympics' page which I searched. Second, what do the codes on tv mean? There is no classification section. If anybody knows how classification is made, please publish. Ta. Lemon Pickets (talk) 09:02, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
 * There was a classification section, it now includes a few notes specific to the Winter Games - Basement12 (T.C) 15:08, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

FA Collaboration areas for improvement
I'd love to move this article up to FA standing but I don't have the energy, time, or information to really make a good run at it alone. So I'm seeking editors interested in collaborating on this project. I think it would be very appropriate for this article to be the first Featured Article at the Paralympics Task Force. If you aren't familiar with the FA process check out WP:FAC and read the FA criteria. This will help familiarize you with how articles become featured and what the folks that review the articles are looking for. Here are some thoughts on improving the article. These are by no means exhaustive and they are my own opinions, which you can certainly disagree with. I'd like to model this article after the Olympic Games article as much as possible. To that end here are some suggestions:
 * Develop information in the ICC and IPC, history, mission, current make up, vision, a sentence about current president Philip Craven, political controversies (if any).
 * Discuss the agreement between the IOC and the IPC regarding host city requirement to host both Paralympics and Olympics. What are the particulars of the agreement?  Has it been successful?  Has it caused any undue strain on host cities?  has it discouraged host cities from bidding?
 * Look at the various ceremonies, are they different in any way from the Olympics ceremonies?
 * Any further cheating allegations or other scandals not mentioned in the article.
 * I think more could be said about the disparity in funding between Paralympic and Olympic athletes. This one needs to be done carefully, without "beating a dead horse".  If the coverage in the article is sufficient then leave it as is.  Pushing this part too hard with start to unbalance the article and seem to expose a bias or a soapbox.

This is a good start, more to come I'm sure. Please add thoughts and critiques here. Let's put in two or three weeks of solid work and we can get it ready for a run at WP:FAC. H1nkles (talk) citius altius fortius 16:08, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm trying to locate book sources to add. Books are looked upon as more credible than websites and I think this is an area where we can expand and improve the article.  Google books is a good place to start and there are plenty of books on the Paralympics.
 * I like your breakdown of the various sections, especially moving "Current" into a subsection rather than its own section. I may do a little tweaking of the titles but I think the organization of the article is crystalizing better.  Keep up the good work.  H1nkles (talk) citius altius fortius 16:19, 30 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you. Certainly good work from your side, this article is definately getting better. I like your suggestions, and try to follow them. Didn't know about google books. Bib (talk) 08:15, 1 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Bib, you did a lot of great work this weekend! Unfortunately I can't work much on the weekends so it's great to see work done the article.  I'd like to try and expand a couple of the sections that you created.  If the subject warrants its own section we need to make sure we have enough info to make it more than two sentences (Outside the Games).  We're making great progress!  H1nkles (talk) citius altius fortius 16:32, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
 * We need to find references for the Ceremonies section. I think there's one in-line cite.  We won't be able to keep the section if we can't reference it, and it's a great section with fantastic images.  H1nkles (talk) citius altius fortius 17:00, 3 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Did a bit of copy editing on the lead, nothing too major but rearranged it a bit so hopefully it flows better now. It looks like the information on the coining of the term Paralympic doesn't exist anywhere else in the article at the moment (which it needs to), not sure where you think it would be best placed - I'd say somewhere in the history section but I don't think it slots nicely into any of the current sub headings. Basement12 (T.C) 14:59, 4 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Maybe there could be stuff about the Paralympic Committee of India in the controversy section? Bib (talk) 21:02, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure that's on topic enough to warrant inclusion. If this was an article about the IPC and its subsidiaries I'd say yes, but it's really focused on the Paralympic Games, of which this is certainly a part, but it's a bit removed in my opinion.  On a separate note, I'm getting really behind in real life work so I haven't been able to edit much the last day or two, I hope to contribute more tomorrow.  I think we're nearing the point when we can start polishing and fine tuning the article.  H1nkles (talk) citius altius fortius 23:29, 6 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree. Bib (talk) 06:26, 7 May 2010 (UTC)


 * This link is dead, it's used to support the closing ceremony section.  Do you have the live link for this?  It's a good reference and we need references in this section in a bad way.  I looked for a long time for references on the Paralympics ceremonies but came up pretty dry.  H1nkles (talk) citius altius fortius 18:32, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Second largest sporting event?
"The Paralympics is now the world’s largest sporting events after the Olympics and is the fastest growing movement in international sports." This sentence from the section "recent games", sourced together with the next one to an article by the official webcaster of the 200 Paralympics, is frankly pure nonsense. It is not the second largest sporting event in economic impact or number of viewers (that would be the Football World Cup, probably), nor in number of participants (that's perhaps the Universiade, with some 10,000 participants, compared to the nearly 4000 of the Paralympics: also things like the 2006 Commonwealth Games and the 2006 Asian Games have more participants). If no independent reliable source can be found that also states that it is the largest event (and fastest growing movement), and indicates in what way it is the second largest event, I suggest that we remove this dubious statement (also from the lead section of this GA!). Fram (talk) 12:46, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
 * How does it compare in terms of the number of countries (not individual atletes) participating? Roger (talk) 07:46, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * The 2009 World Championships in Athletics had 202 countries, the 2009 World Aquatics Championships had 185 countries, the 2008 Summer Paralympics had 148 countries participating. It's large, in almost every measure you can imagine, but it doesn't seem to be the second largest in any reasonable statistic. Fram (talk) 08:19, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I've just realised that the claim is being made only for 2008, but such a restricted "record" isn't very notable so I have edited it to "one of the largest" Roger (talk) 10:37, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, the section "recent games" also claimed that the Paralympics is "now the world’s largest sporting events after the Olympics and is the fastest growing movement in international sports". The first claim didn't even have the (as you say rather restricted) disclaimer of "in 2008", and the second is unsupported and quite meaningless anyway (how do you measure "fastest growing? Relative or Absolute? What figure?). I have removed this sentence. Fram (talk) 10:48, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Host city selection
Do we know if the IPC has a direct role in selecting host cities or do they simply have to accept the decision made by the IOC (Big Brother) and then they have to negotiate from a weak position for their needs to be met? I remember reading in an article about the Atlanta games that after the Olympics some of the sponsored facilities were simply removed before the Paralympics started. One such example I remember is that the soft-drink vending machines in the athlete's housing were simply ripped out. There were also simple accessibility issues with many of the facilities that were never designed in from the start. Roger (talk) 11:35, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Atlanta in 96, wonder if it was like that at other more recent Paralympic Games too. This IPC handbook, is from 2007, and says quote: 1.7 Host City Election Process – Paralympic Games Elements Subject to the continuous collaboration between IPC and IOC, the city elected to host the Olympic Games is automatically elected to host the Paralympic Games, in compliance with the rules outlined above.  Therefore, the host city election process integrates the requirements of the Paralympic Games. Cities bidding to host the Olympic Games and Paralympic Games must demonstrate that they have fully considered what is required to successfully host the Paralympic Games, as well as for the Olympic Games.  The involvement of IPC in the host city election process resides in the following: *IPC representation in the IOC Evaluation Commission for the assessment of the candidate cities. *The Paralympic references and themes throughout the questionnaire and bid documentation *The feedback and support provided by the IPC administration to the IOC with regards to analysis and evaluation of Paralympic bid components. *The interaction with the candidate cities’ authorities in accordance with the processes and provisions established by IOC.  B i b  (talk) 14:35, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Here is an article about the Atlanta Games you mention (scroll a little further down on that page). Stuff like this could probably be added to the 1996 Summer Paralympics article. B i b  (talk) 14:12, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Link about the 2000 Games. B i b  (talk) 15:54, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
 * So it appears that these types of problems are a recurrent issue. We should cover these issues in our articles. Not strictly Paralympics but the Commonwealth Games in India last year had accessibility problems for disabled athletes and spectators in addition to their much more widely publicised "not ready on opening day" problems. Roger (talk) 17:30, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, I wrote a few words about it in Talk:Concerns and controversies over the 2010 Commonwealth Games, but I haven't written anything about it in the article. (There's also Paralympic Committee of India). Not sure how it's been in the Paralympic Games in recent years though, I imagine it's become much better? As far as I can remember reading, there were some comments on the filming of the biathlon and cross country skiing at the 2010 Winter Paralympics. (But, quote: NRK were far more pleased with the production of the ice sledge hockey and wheelchair curling events, which they felt reached the same level as the Olympic Games. ) Don't know about 2008, 2006, 2004 and 2002 though. B i b  (talk) 18:38, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Link about 2004 Athens B i b  (talk) 20:02, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Media controversies
Comments from a New Zealand Radio Live morning talkback host here, maybe there's enough stuff around the web to make a whole article? B i b (talk) 16:24, 13 February 2011 (UTC)
 * 2010 Opening ceremony. B i b  (talk) 21:03, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I split this off into a new topic as it's not really the same issue as the above. Maybe there is enough for an article, if not, we can easily create a section for it in Disability in the media. Roger (talk) 21:55, 14 February 2011 (UTC)