Talk:Paranthodon

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Anthodon was a Pareiasaur, a seperate and distinct animal from Paranthodon and a search for it should not be redirected here.

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 * Thank you very much. IJReid  discuss 01:29, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

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might want to take a look at this new paper, also has free images: FunkMonk (talk) 15:13, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeah I noticed and have already uploaded the images ;) IJReid { {T - C - D - R} } 15:39, 20 March 2018 (UTC)
 * It seems a bit weird to use that image of Tuojiangosaurus which is almost entirely overshadowed by a Monolophosaurus with pronated hands, ? Especially since the space could maybe be used for that image of the nasal bones of Paranthodon, the only free photo of holotype material not used in the article yet... Also, the skull diagram is very hard to see, the black lines are so thin that they look grey, perhaps make them thicker? FunkMonk (talk) 19:08, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeah some changes still need to be made, infinitely better than the Maidment diagram though IMHO because of the complete wrong skull shape. IJReid { {T - C - D - R} } 23:50, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the drawing is very good, but the thumbnail is just a mess of grey on my otherwise pretty large screen! FunkMonk (talk) 23:52, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I changed the line thickness. I like the cleanliness of a thin line but wikipedia thumbnail basically merges it if its under 2 pixels. IJReid { {T - C - D - R} } 00:17, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

This year study~it it a valid taxon?
the article says about only one distinguishing trait, but is it still valid? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 240E:FF:B317:EA43:4418:ED3D:C614:EB3E (talk) 05:21, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
 * It is valid, because not only does it have one completely unique trait, but it also has differences from all other stegosaurs, none of which are found anywhere close to the same location and age anyways. IJReid { {T - C - D - R} } 15:09, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

Hypothetical restoration based on related stegosaurians (Image)
What scientific evidence suggests that this dinosaur has a large spike coming off the shoulder, as depicted in the artist rendition? Nothing in the article mentions this, nor am I aware that any other saur has this feature. 2600:6C48:7006:200:B056:6066:1296:EF0B (talk) 00:17, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
 * A shoulder spike is known in all the stegosaurs listed as close to Paranthodon in the cladogram, Huayangosaurus, Kentrosaurus, Tuojiangosaurus, Chungkingosaurus and Gigantspinosaurus. IJReid { {T - C - D - R} } 00:32, 11 May 2019 (UTC)


 * Well throw me a bone then.  Literally.    Images of all these listed saureus's on WP are reconstructions with no actual one in evidence shown.  This Paranthedon article itself shows no actual recovered shoulder spikes with its fossil record.  If anything, some the images/articles as other references show saurs w/o shoulder spikes.   So maybe they had spikes and maybe not, but WP is not to be built on speculation. 2600:6C48:7006:200:B056:6066:1296:EF0B (talk) 00:52, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Heres the skeleton of Gigantspinosaurus, with a very real, very extreme shoulder spike. IJReid { {T - C - D - R} } 06:00, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
 * So if I understand correctly, (a) this is an extrapolation from a single actual fossil bone to an entire taxon, and (b) the fossil bone is assigned to the OTHER major branch of stegosaurs. They are not related at all other than both being stegosaurs. Samsara 19:46, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
 * If you look through literature (particularly many popular dinosaur books), it is not uncommon for taxa known from very limited remains to have a reconstruction. I have mused on this in the past and wondered on the best way to convey this. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 22:00, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
 * In reponse to your implied question, my off-the-cuff suggestion would be to indicate in the infobox the extent of the assigned remains.
 * However, my point in this case was more about it not being a done thing to extrapolate a derived feature up the tree to an ancestor. It seems that the basis for giving the derived feature to the Paranthodon reconstruction was that an otherwise unrelated descendant from some common ancestor has the feature. Kind of like saying rhinos have horns so the ancestor of all mammals has horns, and all ancestors of horses had them, too. Hopefully, it's clear then that this is not sound logic. Samsara 22:28, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
 * You don't understand correctly, because it is extrapolation from multiple fossils from multiple taxa from both branches of stegosaurs. Kentrosaurus and Huayangosaurus also preserve the shoulder spikes, like I stated above. IJReid { {T - C - D - R} } 00:49, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
 * but that is the image in the taxobox now (implying the extent of the remains)? Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 02:29, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, but the comparison with the other articles failed on that basis. Samsara 11:15, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
 * (and others) I looked at the other articles and did not find that evidence. The skeletons (reconstructed or otherwise) shown there are the following: File:Huayangosaurus taibaii 20050707 07.jpg (tiny spike) File:Chungkingosaurus jiangbeiensis.jpg (no spike) File:Natural History Museum Tuojiangosaurus.jpg (no spike) So at that point, the spike is (a) an autapomorphy of Huayangosaurus and would not logically get promoted up the tree, and (b) it's not even present to any remotely similar extent. So I'm still missing any evidence that would justify either the presence or the extent of the spike implied for Paranthodon. You posted a picture of Kentrosaurus, an in-group relative to Gigantspinosaurus, which doesn't strengthen the evidence (of course an ingroup might share an outgroup feature) - if I understand correctly, we have the scapula of the actual outgroup Jiangjunosaurus, and it lacks the spike. Samsara 11:15, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Both Huayangosaurus and Tuojiangosaurus had these spines (see, e.g., the review of Galton, 2012 in "The Complete Dinosaur"). The spines are always separate from the scapulae, the spines where anchored in the skin (but commonly found adjacent to the scapulae); if there is a scapula but no spine is not evidence for an absense of the spine. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 11:47, 12 May 2019 (UTC)


 * We don't know anything past its snout. But through phylogenetic bracketing, we know it would have had spikes, unless it was a very unique stegosaur, which is less parsimonious. If we want to be really extreme, we don't know it had a body either, but there is such a thing as common sense. FunkMonk (talk) 10:20, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

With all due respect to the original IP, the notion of proof is meaningless in paleontology. Even if it were, skeletal mounts in museums are not relevant to this topic, only peer-reviewed literature. One only needs to look to the many laughably wrong and irredeemably garbage mounts that some museums put out. 219.70.189.47 (talk) 15:01, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
 * See Jens' comment above. Such spikes are mentioned in the literature. Stegosaurus seems to be an outlier in not having them, not the other way around. FunkMonk (talk) 15:08, 12 May 2019 (UTC)