Talk:Parkour/Archive 5

Caption under Danny Pic
It refers to Daniel Ilabaca as a Traceur, when the man in question is a Free Runner. You wouldn't put a caption under David Beckham saying "Tennis Player" would you? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.151.64.143 (talk) 22:44, 5 April 2009 (UTC) bar camp i think it is harder then most sports —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.209.171.148 (talk) 23:49, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

I've talked to Danny. He doesn't care - he is a traceur and a freerunner. Dhechols (talk) 18:58, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Cult status?
There's a lot out there that Parkour has many similarities to the dictionary definitive 'cult'. Perhaps something along these lines could be added in by someone with more prose skill than I? 114.76.205.101 (talk) 11:19, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't say cult. Subculture moreso. -Kyle —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.47.91.237 (talk) 17:30, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd probably call it a "fitness trend" more than a cult. One that as it gains acceptance fades into the greater fitness ecosystem as just another way to stay in shape. Right now it's a fad because of all the popularity and attention it's gained (mostly because the mainstream has just found out about it from films like Casino Royale). Expect to see lots of opportunistic capitalization of it (exercise DVDs, classes, etc) similar to the jazzercising and step aerobics fads before it. True, it does have a following and "movement" behind it, but these are early days and you will always have enthusiasts in these things trying to elevate it to the level of some kind of new-age enlightenment. ThePenciler (talk) 18:34, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Hands down, not a cult. Dhechols (talk) 19:01, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Parkour video parody?
I seem to remember some kind of parody, maybe from SNL or someone on Funny or Die, where one of the sequences was the participants playing leapfrog and doing awkward movement and activity as part of their parkour demonstration video. Does anybody know what I'm talking about? ThePenciler (talk) 18:42, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * A parody of parkour was certainly in the cold open of The Office (U.S._TV_series), Season 6, episode 1 where the Michael, Dwight, and Andy announced each graceless mess of a move (including leapfrog) with a hearty shout of "Parkour!" --Lexein (talk) 19:04, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Parkour in The Unit?
Just watched The Unit Season 4, Episode 15. Would the jumps etc by the new recruit they are testing considered Parkour? Later on he's seen doing more during a foot chase in .ph. 125.238.169.234 (talk) 17:30, 8 March 2010 (UTC)


 * This page is for discussing improvements to the article, not discussing parkour (Wikipedia is not a forum). General questions should go to the Reference desk. -- Explodicle (T/C) 18:01, 8 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Explodicle, the slap-down isn't necessary. This person is simply asking for clarification, so that the episode of "The Wire" might be included in the segment on parkour in popular culture.174.65.1.119 (talk) 05:45, 3 May 2010 (UTC)


 * I'd say it's relevant, but I think there are many better examples of parkour for popular culture. Dhechols (talk) 19:04, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Evasion Technique?
I have recently heard it claimed that Parkour is for "evasion" and that it's the art of running away, with the goal being to run away from aggressors. That it is "designed as an escape form" as someone told me. Is there any validity in this? No where in the article does it use the words evade or evasion, as far as I can see. -- Bonkalicious (talk) 22:41, 12 April 2010 (UTC)


 * David Belles father survived the war because he could run away. So a big part of parkours history lies in there. But then he also saved many lifes by reaching people when he was working as a firefighter, so thats a part of it too. Read in the "Freerunning" part of this article, there you will see the full quotation of the PAWA release adressing this. "escape and reach". So next time you read an article, dont look only for the perfect english words "evasion" but keep in mind that parkour comes from french kids that dropped school and live in the ghetto, so dont expect perfect hollywood style press releases, but better look for meaning ;-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.47.231.68 (talk) 17:23, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Displacement
I'm going to change the translation of "l'art du déplacement". Déplacement in French can be used as we use displacement in English. However, the meaning of displacement in English is not the same as the meaning that's intended in "l'art du déplacement". Displacement in English means removing or expelling something out of its previous place. Look it up. The French word has a broader meaning. Here it means movement. More specifically, it means moving from one place to another, but we don't have an exact word for that in English. In French you can say "Je me suis déplacé chez lui" = "I went over to his house" (this is the sense in "l'art du déplacement") but you can't say in English "I displaced myself over to his house".

So, anyway, I'm going to change it to "the art of movement". If you don't like this, feel free to change it to something else. However, I think it's not a good idea just to revert it because "the art of displacement" is bad English and doesn't give a true sense of what they mean in French. More clumsily you'd call it "the art of getting from one place to another". --Mujokan (talk) 00:30, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Formatting
--Lexein (talk) 16:09, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Date format: It's a mix of YYYY-MM-DD and M, d, YYYY - any objections to me conforming them all to YYYY-MM-DD?
 * Citation author format: the "standard" is Last, First. Any objection to me switching all over to that?
 * On August 10 or so, I'll be switching formats per the above. --Lexein (talk) 06:19, 1 August 2010 (UTC)


 * No problem, but I think that there is some source which have only the year to date. Carlosguitar (Yes Executor?) 14:48, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Right - just seeking consistent long dates and author names. There is policy WP:CITEHOW against changing format en masse, so leaving time for discussion here first. --Lexein (talk) 18:44, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

end of opening section
What does "Most freerunners are male." have to do with the article? Tyler John (talk) 03:26, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Not much - this should either be expanded to reflect actual RS statistics or deleted until such a source is available. --Lexein (talk) 06:18, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Nothing at all!!!

--Masterlink12345 (talk) 23:51, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

not that efficient
The definition of parkour is given as movement that is efficiently navigating a landscape. Well, from what I can see from many parkour videos, the method of navigation is not particularly efficient. Rather, the attempt is at acrobatic display which is NOT necessarily efficient. Often, instead of flipping and jumping, simply sliding down or just dropping down is more efficient, though that means it involves no acrobatic display skills.

I think parkour is much less about efficient movement and more about a display for a spectator. Without a spectator, parkour is nothing. Parkour is a lot of drawing someone else's attention to one's ego. It's not too much more than that. Parkour demands spectators and it is the only way in which it redeems itself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 154.5.48.135 (talk) 04:28, 8 October 2010 (UTC)


 * You're thinking of freerunning, which is often confused with parkour. Freerunning is done for exhibition and competitive creativity.  Actual parkour does not utilize flips and emphasizes efficiency, even if it's not pretty.  The Cap&#39;n (talk) 19:43, 3 March 2011 (UTC)


 * That's a difference between parkour and freerunning. ··gracefool&#9786; 22:49, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Parkour is more efficient. It is more than jumping down from places.... If you are looking at your path and see a set of stairs 2 small buildings and a drop, you can walk up the steps go around the 2 small builds and then just fall straight down. However, if you do that, walking up the steps and around the builds is slower than just jumping/climbing around/over them and falling straight down in some cases will compact your spine and you could injure yourself forever. If you jump from say, 15 feet up and fall, some people may not get hurt but some people would and if they were using parkour, they would roll instead of just falling straight down. The proper roll released about 60% of your downward force. This means that you really only hit with about 40% of the initial force so you are able to continue running. In the case of the office's parody of it, no, it's not efficient. In the case of its intended purpose? It's pretty efficient. IMHO [Steve] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.111.204.98 (talk) 13:56, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Someone decided to change the article "Parkour". I believe it is false due to conclusions on "not that efficient". It went from ", Parkour and Free Running have very little differences." to "... however, parkour, freerunning, and l'art du displacement are the same thing, just have different names." Differences between revisions seen here. mystery  (talk)  21:51, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Notability
Is this subject really notable? I appreciate that a few people are really into it, but it's a very long article for a subject which few people in the English speaking world have even heard of. --Ef80 (talk) 01:49, 5 December 2010 (UTC)


 * It seems that with 133000 hits for this article in October alone, there are more than a few people in the English-speaking world who know about the subject. Dr.K. λogosπraxis 04:46, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes. It's notable. Dhechols (talk) 19:21, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Parquore
I've occasionally seen "parquore" as an alternate spelling of "parkour." Is this spelling legitimate? Should the article mention it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.251.246.79 (talk) 02:09, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

For the sake of a response to this suggestion, I disagree. Someone along the line may have suggested "Parquore" because it is more of a french-friendly word. The use of the letter 'K' is not very common in the french language, but "Parkour" as it is today is correct spelling. Glelin (talk) 19:42, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Not "energy-efficient", use "direct" instead
The first sentence of this article contains the term "swift and energy-efficient traversing". I'm no expert on this subject, but from the examples provided, none of this is "energy-efficient". Instead the path taken is much more "direct", over obstacles, etc. A great deal of energy is exerted to cross some of this obstacles compared to just running around them. For anyone who knows Parkour, do you feel this statement should be re-worded? Thanks. cipher_nemo (talk) 16:54, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Great point. I'll change it.(olive (talk) 16:58, 6 April 2011 (UTC))
 * I think you 2 should read the conclusion on the "not that efficient (17)" talk article. Plus, perhaps starting another section would not be good.  Just adding on in another section would be better.  Id have to say the "not that efficient" conclusion is perfect.   mystery   (talk)  21:10, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Someone decided to change the article "Parkour". I believe it is false due to conclusions on "not that efficient".  It went from ", Parkour and Free Running have very little differences." to "... however, parkour, freerunning, and l'art du displacement are the same thing, just have different names."  Differences between revisions seen here.   mystery   (talk)  21:54, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

PK?
This is the first time i've ever heard of parkour being called PK. Where did the author of this article get this information?.Gymsport (talk) 22:50, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Hi, Parkour is definitely called PK among traceurs, in France at least. It is often used on forums too, in team names and so on. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.186.252.97 (talk) 10:19, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Freerunning
I believe the terms Freerunning and Parkour in the '7.1 Freerunning' Section of the aritcles are swapped. I.e. parkour embodies complete freedom of movement and freerunning is a discipline that encourages efficiency instead of the other way around as stated in the article. I would edit the article directly, however, I know that my knowledge on this subject might be rather limited and would just like to clarify first. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.7.178.26 (talk) 12:13, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

I think that Parkour is to move with efficiency rather than Freerunning, which is move playing around but i think that the boundary between the two is some what hazyNickp147 (talk) 04:06, 29 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Of course, there is then also the issue that this article (part of it at least) says they are the same, but the Free running article says they are different. Mark Hurd (talk) 05:16, 20 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry for this being a few months late, but I just stumbled across this and would like to clarify. The founders of parkour generally accept and encourage the use of "Freerunning" and "Parkour" interchangeably but much of the subculture recognizes the difference between them--namely, Parkour embodies efficiency and Freerunning is total freedom of movement, with flairs added on for expression or aesthetic purposes. Soo...the post 2 above this one (8 June 09) is misinformed. Anonymous Traceur, PK/FR practitioner of 7 years 04:08, 19 March 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.40.53.1 (talk)


 * I am not going to edit the article myself, I am austrian and my english isnt proficient enough. I practise Parkour for 10 years now, trained with all the original people, Belle, Foucan etc.. but since wikipedia likes facts, I want to show you. On his new site, freerunningtv.com, Seb Foucan, the founder of Freerunning, clearly states that there IS a difference between Parkour and Freerunning, you can go there, watch by yourself and then someone please edit this article, because its just wrong. I would do it myself but as said, a native english speaker should do this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.47.231.68 (talk) 17:18, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Someone decided to change the article "Parkour". I believe it is false due to conclusions on "not that efficient". It went from ", Parkour and Free Running have very little differences." to "... however, parkour, freerunning, and l'art du displacement are the same thing, just have different names." Differences between revisions seen here. mystery  (talk)  21:52, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * This change refers to the philosophy and movement in parkour. They are indeed very similar -- in fact, practitioners often do both. Strictly speaking they are different, although if you talk to the founder's of parkour and freerunning, they will tell you that they're the same thing. Of course, the founder's don't have the final say on what is or is not -- it's very clear that the community has a fuzzy line between the two disciplines. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dhechols (talk • contribs) 19:07, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Influential people in parkour
Please remember as you edit this article that there are many influential people around the world that contribute to parkour. David Belle, the Yamakasi (now Majestic Force) (France), Parkour Generations (UK), Parkour Visions (USA, Washington), Overflux (USA, Southeast), American Parkour (USA) -- all of these heavy influences and more contribute to the ideas that form parkour around the world.

Many of these people have opposing views on subjects in Parkour, and Wikipedia's policy of neutrality must be applied where necessary. Dechols (talk) 17:13, 11 March 2010 (UTC)


 * hmmmm... no. Your UK and US groups are irrelevant. Parkour is absolutely, utterly, entirely French. You anglophones have hopscotch. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.45.178.123 (talk) 08:44, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

-- Responding to troll here. Parkour is worldwide, not French only. Dhechols (talk) 15:08, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Arnim Dahl, Gizmo
Parkour has been around a long time, as seen in the film Gizmo Before David Bell there was German stuntman Arnim Dahl, he's in the German Wikipedia. --68.45.218.70 (talk) 00:55, 19 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Agreed, however it's popularity started with David Belle and the Yamakasi, and thus we attribute it to them. Dhechols (talk) 19:21, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Injuries...
Whoever edited this: Parkour has sometimes received concerns for its health issues due to large drops.

I appreciate it. I delete the part about Many traceurs being injured from large drops as there is absolutely no evidence to back this claim. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Designer1993 (talk • contribs) 17:19, 12 March 2009 (UTC) Designer1993 (talk) 16:30, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem, I removed it again. Carlosguitar (Yes Executor?) 12:53, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

Parkour is only as dangerous as you make it if don't want to be injured you won't be Nickp147 (talk) 01:40, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Removed Weasel Words
I got rid of the line "However, most traceurs will take care of their training spots and will remove themselves quickly and quietly from a public place if asked.", because it cited no sources, was unneeded, and was a example of Weasel Words.

82.20.31.123 (talk) 16:28, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Merge with freerunning
Iamiyouareyou (talk) 16:54, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

I think due to the overlapping of this article with free running they should be consolidated into one article.Iamiyouareyou (talk) 18:06, 16 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I agree. How long should we wait before doing it ?


 * Mateo56 (talk) 18:13, 18 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I disagree. Parkour differs from freerunning in its purpose. The goal of parkour is to get from one spot to another as quickly as possible (perfecting the art of efficiency), whereas freerunning is more of a performance art (and thus includes some less-efficient but impressive moves rarely seen in parkour, such as flips). The movements used in parkour and freerunning appear similar to onlookers, but -- like comparing a sprinter on the track to a dancer bounding across the stage -- it is unfair to equate them based on appearance alone. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.169.125.25 (talk) 03:03, 22 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Free running should be merged into Parkour for the obvious reason that they are virtually identical because 95% of what a freerunner does is Parkour. Most freerunners have no idea that they are actually doing Parkour. Freerunning deserves a place in the Parkour article under Variants

Also, apparently this is fallout from the widespread anti-french sentiment coming from the US in the past decade and wikipedia should have no part of it. Torqueing (talk) 23:38, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Talk back to: Mateo56
Well we should start the merge now. I'm sure there is a title that can be used for both, then it's just consolidating the similarities and explaining the differences.Iamiyouareyou (talk) 17:57, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

I dont think we should start the merge. Read the "not that efficient" section for a valid explanation. mystery  (talk)  21:48, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Quite simply, free running and Parkour are not the same thing so they shouldn't be merged.(olive (talk) 03:49, 1 July 2011 (UTC))


 * I would like to thank 188.222.9.98 for correcting the vandalism on my post only 2 minutes after it was vandalized. mystery   (talk)  23:16 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Talk back to all
I meant the merger to create a page which all overlapping content to be consolidate then to exspress each individual type.

Example: Place top level category name here(e.x: Structure-Acrobatics)
Place top level category name here(e.x: Structure-Acrobatics) is an extreme sport were participants use man made structures as a platform for preforming acrobatic tricks and moves similar to that of other extreme sports and gymnastics.

History
Some time in the choose time  here (early-mid-or-late)  place year here Two distinct yet similar discipline emerged.

Parkour a discipline starting in France and Freerunning a discipline started in English speaking countries.

Parkour
Iamiyouareyou (talk) 15:53, 2 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Oppose - Parkour is efficiently getting from point A to point B, while free running is moreso tricking. Having a top level category name would be horrible, even with disambiguation pages.  mystery   (talk)  22:23, July 20th, 2011 (UTC)


 * Oppose - Freerunning may encompass almost every aspect of Parkour, but that doesn't mean that they should be merged. That is like saying that Football and Flag Football should be merged because they both involve a football, teams, and running around a field. Freerunning is a legitimate extension of Parkour and deserves it's own page. Glelin (talk) 19:21, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Can we close this? Its been discussed, and everyone agrees on keeping them seperate. Plus, its been open for 1 month and 20 days. mystery  (talk)  19;19, July 25th, 2011 (UTC)
 * I second this. Glelin (talk) 01:01, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Archived. Dhechols (talk) 19:11, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

False Popular Culture References
The Popular culture section list some videogames which more than likely were not directly referencing parkour. These, to my judgement, would include Super Mario 64, and Assassin's Creed. Super Mario 64 does indeed involve running and jumping, but it's no more than mere gymnastics. The game was released before parkour became prominent, so it isn't likely that the game was meant to reference parkour at all. Assassin's Creed again only involves general gymnastics. The creators of game titles should be asked about the inspiration used. Because parkour is essentially re-branded gymnastics, it is important not to generalize anything to do with jumps and flips as parkour, as if that's where running and jumping were invented. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.121.136.180 (talk) 06:14, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

Fully agree that Mario is not inspired by Parkour or FreeRunning, but in the development videos of Assassin's Creed they specifically said that the lead character could perform movements of Parkour and Freerunning.188.222.9.98 (talk) 21:06, 4 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Taken care of. Dhechols (talk) 19:09, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Only put "Parkour", instead of "Parkour and Freerunning"
Due to all the things that has been talked, i'm going to erase the "Frerunning" part of the headline.

Sorry my english. --Luckaxx (talk) 08:31, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

A basic parkour move, video
can someone find something better, that was just sad. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.99.131.84 (talk) 03:14, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Parkour and freerunning merged yes/no
Parkour and freerunning are two different disciplines and should not get confused or merged. Parkour is the ability to get from a to b in the fastest time using agility, jumps, leaps and much more to overcome obstacles. Freerunning uses the surrounding urban environments to execute acrobatics stunts and such, so it is more of a trick based sport compared to parkour. The two often get intergrated in the same activity, however, they are two different disaplins in themselves. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmorris92 (talk • contribs) 11:09, 12 August 2011 (UTC)


 * It was already decided not to merge them, as they are different sports. See Talk:Parkour:Merge with freerunning.  mystery   (talk)  22:56, August 8th, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yes, the two disciplines are very related. It's a fuzzy line between the two, but they are different. Dhechols (talk) 19:09, 15 August 2011 (UTC)