Talk:Parliament of Finland

Comments
201 members are elected (200 from Finland and one from Åland). The parliament consists of 201 members, (200 regular representatives and the speaker). -- Cimon Avaro on a pogostick — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cimon Avaro (talk • contribs) 20:25, 18 August 2003 (UTC)


 * But isn't Ålands MP counted in the 200? See for instance here, just clik on "kaikki", it shows 200 MPs, one of them from Åland. And it includes the speaker too. Where did the 201st MP go? -- Jniemenmaa 20:46, Aug 18, 2003 (UTC)

You were right.
I even hand counted the members in the seating arrangement. I remember a time however, when the youngest member could not take her seat until the Speaker left to join the President on the dais at the formal opening of parliament. I guess they got bored with that. Now they have an empty chair instead... -- Cimon Avaro on a pogo-stick 03:36, Aug 19, 2003 (UTC)


 * Hey, no problem. I've heard the 201 figure before and I wasn't that certain myself. Allthough the Eduskunta website clearly says 200, I always assumed the same thing you did. Also at election time they TV commentators allways emphasise the "extra member" from Åland. -- Jniemenmaa 08:50, Aug 19, 2003 (UTC)

Picture
That picture of the parliament house is absolutely priceless. That guy in the foreground should be elected as an MP. &mdash; J I P | Talk 13:06, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Changing the Constitution
It should be added that the Constitution can also be changed if 5/6 vote it to be "urgent" and then 2/3 approve it. 80.186.100.180 11:16, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Valtiopäivät
What about mention of this term here? -Yupik 09:10, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Mistakes in the list on the right
It says 51 members for National Coalition (which includes Sauli Niinistö, the speaker), but then has the Speaker listed separately as well; Sauli Niinistö is thus effectively counted twice. The Åland representive is not listed at all. Not sure what is the best fix for those, though, so I'm saying it here.. 109.204.144.132 (talk) 16:59, 23 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes. You must be right. I'll fix it. JoolzWiki (talk) 20:32, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Seating order
The picture on the right should be modified. It has green color for the National coalition party and blue color for the Centre Party - that should be vice versa. Also, the seating order of the parties is all messed up. The real seating order can be seen here. From left to right: Left Alliance, Social Democrats, Greens, True Finns, Centre Party, Christian Democrats, National Coalition Party, Swedish People's Party. Some of these Wikipedia-charts put government on one side and the opposition on the other, but even in that case the picture should be modified. --89.27.103.116 (talk) 12:16, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Now it's much better, but still one thing: the speaker is now a Social Democrat, not anymore an NCP-member. --89.27.103.116 (talk) 15:44, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was no consensus. --BDD (talk) 21:55, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Parliament of Finland → Eduskunta – Hi! Per WP:OTHERCRAP this might not pass, but however, articles should be named as they exist. Riigikogu is here Riigikogu, not Parliament of Estonia, Folketing is here Folketing, not Parliament of Denmark, Knesset is here Knesset, not Parliament of Israel, Riksdag is here Riksdag, not Parliament of Sweden, Verkhovna Rada is here Verkhovna Rada, not Parliament of Ukraine. The list goes on and on. If you simply say "well, the media says Parliament of Finland", well then you definitely shouldn't say Verkhovna Rada, but instead Parliament of Ukraine, and the same goes for the rest of those others. Relisted. BDD (talk) 16:46, 28 March 2013 (UTC) -- Puisque (talk) 03:20, 20 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment can you show that this is the name that is commonly used in English? -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 03:49, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose, per WP:USEENGLISH. The group's English-language website says, "Parliament of Finland" in large type on the top, and "The Finnish Parliament" in the fine print. Update: Highbeam has three results for "Eduskunta" for the last two years, 61 for "Finnish parliament." Kauffner (talk) 14:13, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Support. Generally, if a nation's term for their own parliament is different from their generic word for parliament, and if the word is not rarely used in English sources, I think using that term as the title would be best (unless a common/official English translation exists). Also, this seems to already be the general precedent. User332572385 (talk) 10:18, 20 March 2013 (UTC) Edited to add: note that all nearby countries to Finland have the native name as article title. User332572385 (talk) 10:20, 20 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose. If  was commonly used in English-languauge sources I would be more than happy to support the move but it seems it is not. Zarcadia (talk) 20:18, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

I notice that the Finnish site yli.fi uses the term Finnish parliament in its English-language stories:, , ,. The term is predominant in UK news media too:


 * Google News search for "Eduskunta" in UK sources: 0 results


 * Google News search for "Finnish Parliament" in UK sources: 10 results


 * Google News search for "Parliament of Finland" in UK sources: 1 result

I suspect that English-speaking people in countries that are more distant from Finland may be less familiar with the term Eduskunta. Without meaning to slight anyone, of the WP:OTHERSTUFF examples given in the proposal, the Knesset is probably the only body widely known by its native name among English speakers, with the German Bundestag and Russian Duma (I piped this one) also being well-known. The other articles can be seen at List of legislatures by country and as the nominator implied, most of them have been given English names. — rybec   06:56, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Name change to native
The name of this article should indeed not be the English descriptor but the actual name of the institution the article covers. See corresponding articles about the parliament of Denmark Folketing and the parliament of Sweden Riksdag. Let’s make this one about the parliament of Finland be entitled what it actually is, Eduskunta. Pessimistipasta (talk) 10:35, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
 * It doesn't appear that English-language sources regularly use the term. As such, it would fail WP:USEENGLISH. Also, given the lack of consensus from the previous discussion above, it would be better to file a new RM rather than unilaterally moving the page. --Paul_012 (talk) 20:07, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Alright, good call. Let’s talk about this in the new section that recently opened. Pessimistipasta (talk) 22:45, 20 October 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 20 October 2017

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: not moved. Andrewa (talk) 06:13, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

Parliament of Finland → Eduskunta – As Finland is officially a non-English-speaking country, it seems short-sighted to have an unofficial English name as the name of this article. Respective articles about parliaments abroad follow a logical pattern: the name of the article is the name of the parliament in the majority native language (see: Folketing, Riksdag, Althing). The most obvious reason for this is that Finland does not have an institution literally called ’Parliament’. We’ve got an eduskunta, and for the sake of both truthfulness and loyalty to abiding by widely-used practices, let’s name this article that. Pessimistipasta (talk) 21:15, 20 October 2017 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.


 * Oppose per WP:UE. Also, Finland has two official languages, so if you really want to play the "official names" card, you would have to rename the page to the long-winded "Eduskunta/Riksdagen". The current title is also more accessible to English-speakers. Academicoffee71 (talk) 02:52, 24 October 2017 (UTC)


 * There are similar cases, such as with Estonia (Riigikogu), wherein the name of the English Wikipedia page is in Estonian, even though the country has a more significant Russian-speaking minority (24% of population); the same can be applied for Finland's Swedish-speaking minority, which accounts for only 5%. Furthermore, as Swedish Finns tend to comprehend Finnish, naming the article by the actual institution's name in one language only is not a problem in that regard. Putting "Riksdag" in the title would violate WP:CRITERIA, as it may cause confusion with the already-established article Riksdag, which is similarly an article about a country's parliament named after said country's majority language. WP:CRITERIA also recommends using a title that's as concise as possible, as long as it retains its character and recognizability. This graph shows that while the use of "Finnish parliament" has at some points been more used in English-language books, "Eduskunta" is much more common in both contemporary and overall measures. Therefore, to be concise and mindful of the status quo of naming European parliaments, this should be renamed. Pessimistipasta (talk) 09:57, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
 * All of those parliaments should be moved to their English titles, then. Academicoffee71 (talk) 04:24, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Irrelevant. As said before, the use of the word ”Eduskunta” is far more common than ”Finnish parliament” or ”parliament of Finland” in English language sources. Pessimistipasta (talk) 20:04, 26 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Oppose. No evidence that "Eduskunta" is in established use in English sources, which is in contrast to "Riksdag".--Cúchullain t/ c 19:59, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Not true as per the graph provided above. Eduskunta has a wider use than other forms in English language sources. Why do you feel that this article should diverge in naming practice from the enwiki pages of the parliaments of Iceland (Althing), Norway (Storting), Denmark (Folketing), and Sweden (Riksdag)? Pessimistipasta (talk) 20:26, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
 * A Google News search didn't bear that out at all, I found very few English sources that used the name, but many for "parliament of Finland", "Finnish parliament", "Finland's parliament", etc. Not sure about the others, but with Riksdag, it was shown that that name is well established in English sources in this RM.--Cúchullain t/ c 20:35, 27 October 2017 (UTC)


 * Oppose At least I'm inclined to. National legislatures in a parliamentary system are usually simply called parliament in English; Althing and Riksdag are often exceptions, largely for historical reasons (which I'll comment on). I see some English sources do use Eduskunta (The Economist, with explanation) but most news sources don't and most history books don't (on a quick look through histories on GBooks, I only found it in citations sections). The legislature's seat is usually referred to in English as the Parliament House/Building (see and other tourist guides), and the English official site of the Eduskunta uses Parliament in the text.
 * I know this is not perfectly consistent with using Riksdag and Althing, and it certainly isn't consistent with Finnish-language usage of parliamentti. However, Althing is used because the current parliament is considered the direct successor to the popular assembly of the 11th century; the Icelandic legislature is fairly widely known by its native name and is a different case from the rest. Riksdag is used since the word has cognates in royal+diet rather than parliament and because of the Swedish legislature's history as a feudal diet of estates. While the Finnish national legislature did have a predecessor in the Diet of Finland, as established in 1906 it is considered a clean break from the past, so the Eduskunta can be fairly considered more of a parliament than the Swedish Riksdag in the rest of the world, apart from the rest of the world not paying that much attention to the details. And none of this really matters, because there's nothing that forces English usage or our attempts to reflect mixed usage to be consistent in this way. &mdash;innotata 22:02, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Solemn oath
Is the current solemn oath in the Sessions section misleading? Last I checked, MPs don't use English in Parliament, ever. We could either omit it by just mentioning its existence, or just keep it intact. Pessimistipasta (talk) 11:23, 27 January 2018 (UTC)