Talk:Partus sequitur ventrem

Mulattos et cetera
I have (perhaps temporarily) deleted the short sentence about mulattos since it's not quite correct. In the demented but precise terminology of at least some of the slaver societies, mulattos were the product of an all-white male and an all-black female. If the mother were herself a mulatto, then there was another term, and yet another term for many of the various possible combinations over multiple generations. It may (or may not) be worth enumerating the various classifications, see Baily "The Lost German Slave Girl" for at least one description. rewinn (talk) 05:45, 29 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Don't think it's necessary here; all that is covered extensively in other articles.Parkwells (talk) 19:07, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Proper spelling
Ventris is third declension, and the accusative would be ventrem rather than ventrum. The spelling partus sequitur ventrem seems to be in use in legal dictionaries. Ventrum appears to be a misspelling. Alexalderman (talk) 23:28, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

 * Partus sequitur ventrum → Partus sequitur ventrem &mdash; In Latin, the verb "sequitur" receives an object in the accusative case, which for the third declension noun "ventris" would be "ventrem". The spelling "ventrum" is rather the genitive plural and would mean "of the wombs," which would be incorrect. The title should therefore be "Partus sequitur ventrem".Shyam Shizam (talk) 16:49, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
 * The word is venter; but ventrem is the accusative, and it should be moved. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:03, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
 * It means "The birth follows the belly". Venter means "belly", "stomach", not specifically "womb". Anthony Appleyard (talk) 15:54, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * It can mean either or both, and this appears to be the phrase in use. Since it is a quote from the civil law, not from common-law Latin, it should apply equally to the law of Brazil, which means this article is notably incomplete. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 17:46, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

History
In the sixth ¶, I believe Jefferson fathered either four or five of Hemmings children, not six. The fifth died in infancy and the grave cannot be located, but four have definitely been established by DNA evidence to be Jefferson's. I should also mention that the Monticello Association of Jefferson's white descendants still maintains that Jefferson's brother Randolph might have fathered Sally's children, although he wasn't where Sally was nine months before the births and Jefferson fathered Sally's first child when both were in Paris and brother Randolph was home in the USA (please see The Hemingses of Monticello by Annette Gordon-Reed). Dick Kimball (talk) 14:10, 20 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Sally's mother Betty did however have six children, the youngest of whom was Sarah, called "Sally." Dick Kimball (talk) 14:56, 20 August 2012 (UTC)


 * A direct male descendant of Eston Hemings, the last child by Sally Hemings, was the only Hemings' descendant to be tested. He had DNA matching that of Jefferson's male line. No one knew how to track the descendants of Beverly and Harriett Hemings, who passed into white society, changed their names, and married white. Madison Hemings did not have surviving male descendants, and the family was unwilling to disturb the grave of a son of his who never married. But, since Eston was the last child, historians such as Joseph Ellis, Annette Gordon-Reed and others think this establishes that Jefferson had a long-term relationship with Hemings and likely all her children were his. Monticello said she had six children, with two dying in infancy.Parkwells (talk) 18:51, 20 August 2012 (UTC)