Talk:Party switching in the United States/Archive 1

Headline is preposterous
The headline on the front page of en.wikipedia.org is preposterous. "Nearly all party switchers?" It is clear from the article that the phenomenon works both ways. Arianna Huffington, while not an elected official, is another notable person who has left the Republican Party. glasperlenspiel 07:19, Nov 15, 2004 (UTC)

POV
In the first paragraph the article states that America's two-party-system is "inherently undemocratic". While I agree that it is not ideal, I think most Americans feel they live in a good democracy. Also, the article gives the impression that politicians usually switch parties to bolster their chances of reelection, or to join the majority, while only a few actualy do it out of political conviction. This is a very negative POV on the motivations of politicians.--MaxMad 09:50, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

U.S.-centric?
Although I believe this would be more common in the U.S. (a non-parliamentary system, less party discipline, etc.), surely it's not restricted to the U.S.? Shouldn't this be internationalized? [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 21:14, Nov 18, 2004 (UTC)


 * Given the number of politicans who do this, each country should have its own list. Here are a few that have alreadyy been started:


 * Floor crossing (South Africa)
 * List of British Members of Parliament who crossed the floor
 * List of Canadian politicians who have crossed the floor
 * Ground Zero | t 11:11, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Laws by state?
This would be a great page to aggregate the laws of different states regarding party switching before the primaries. Some states let you change the day of the primary/caucus while other states make you wait over three months before you can switch parties. I'm not sure where to find the information and so far the best collection of this data has been at the Ron Paul website but it is missing some state deadlines and doesn't cite its sources (although a representative told me that they get the data from each state's Board/Commission of Elections website. http://www.ronpaul2008.com/states/ Is anyone up to the task of aggregating each state's party switching laws and adding that information to this article? Wingedbeaver (talk) 21:32, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Two proposals
As stated above, Two proposals:

1) ALL entries to the list MUST have a corresponding source (preferably using ref);

2) Separate federal officials from state and local officials, either by bolding federal officials or having separate sections.

Thoughts? --Tombstone (talk) 20:13, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Fully support #1. I am not so keen on #2 - take Norm Coleman for instance - he switched parties while in a local office and is now a federal official - where would he go?
 * I would like to see all the entries in a sortable table. Potential column headings would be: Name, Original Party, Year of Affiliation Switch, New Party and a Reference. Perhaps a column with office. -- The Red Pen of Doom  12:30, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I like the sortable table idea — I did one on List of United States presidential elections by popular vote margin so I could tinker with one. Regarding #2, I would propose that if a federal office was ever held, regardless of when the party was switched — instead of bolding, maybe a column heading could be Federal Office Held (Y/N). My thinking would be that that politician would be of more interest to more readers outside of the local/state municipality. One other column heading could be State of Residence (although Residence might be an improper term), so readers can sort by the state of their interest. Hmmmm.... --Tombstone (talk) 14:50, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with #2 (and with the "one of these days" posts below), although I see the ambiguity in terms of determining how to define "federal". But to give an idea, I came to this page after the Arlen Specter switch, trying to figure out when the last sitting US congressperson made a switch.  But the lists are so padded with county treasurers that they are virtually useless for my purpose.  Something should be done about this.  --Jumunius (talk) 17:47, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

A few sources
Before I realized this article existed, I had started a List of politicians who switched parties. Here are a few sources that can be added to the article when any format changes (if any) have been determined.-- The Red Pen of Doom  00:20, 13 August 2008 (UTC)


 * John B. Anderson: Republican - 1980; Independent


 * Norm Coleman: Democrat-Farmer-Labor - 1996; Republican


 * John N. Kennedy: Democratic - 2007; Republican


 * Joe Lieberman: Democrat -2006; Connecticut for Lieberman / Independent Democrat

One of these days
the lists will need to be seriously snipped.

I think the county officials/city councilmen will need to have their entries on this list removed unless it's obviously significant. Keeping them on the list is sort of like the old RNC press releases where they would hype the switch of a County Treasurer in Northwest Texas as being the "[x] switch of a Democrat to the Republican Party since Bill Clinton became President".

This article has to combat more partisan back-patting than usual, it seems.

--RobbieFal (talk) 07:32, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Need Help with sourcing / restored info to give time to source
I restored the info that was removed because I am actively looking for the sources for these entries. When I first ran across the article, nothing for the most part was sourced (sources still aren't properly formated). I assume much of what was on the page relied on the user going to the corresponding article, which clearly is not enough. While the work is not my creation I have been steadily adding the sources for the article. Overall much of the info has proved to be correct, just need needs citations. without the entries I will have a harder time figuring what I still need to source. If I haven't found a source or lack of one with in two weeks I'll delete any info I restored, but I would appreciate help sourcing the article. Highground79 (talk) 23:07, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

New list
I've created a new list at Party switching in the United States Senate. Please take a look at it if you get a chance. -Rrius (talk) 01:32, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I like it, and I think the idea should be expanded to the House and for various states. I have opened an RFC on this, since it would be a big change from the status quo.--Blargh29 (talk) 20:21, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

RfC: Split Pages for Federal/Individual States?
This list is pretty ungainly. Should we create separate pages for various levels of government? At the federal level, there could be one for the Senate and House, and separate ones for state-level politicians, including governors and members of the respective legislatures. Maybe something like this: --Blargh29 (talk) 20:20, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Party switching in the United States Senate
 * Party switching in the United States House of Representatives
 * Party switching in Alaska ... Party switching in Wyoming

Criteria for inclusion
What is the criteria for inclusion in this article? I just removed Ulysses S. Grant from the list. While he may have voted for some Democrats, he never held office as a member of any other party and no evidence is presented that he ever was prominently identified with another party. So what is the criteria?

I think it should be that the person has held office in a party, or at least has been publicly identified with the party and served it in a public way, then switched allegiance to a different party. Comments?

-- JPMcGrath (talk) 01:51, 27 May 2010 (UTC)