Talk:Pasión prohibida

Carla Hernandez
Carla Hernandez is an actress in the show. Please refrain from removing the addition to the cast. I put in a citation to support it. (EnochBethany (talk) 22:30, 26 November 2012 (UTC))
 * Don't worry about that editor, at least you provided a source. Platinum Star (talk) 03:44, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Well now it looks like there may be an edit war, though the removal of my edit was done this time by a pure URL.  My addition to the cast was removed again. Incidentally, the trailer features Carla Hernandez, making her appear as the most prominent role at the start of the telenovela.  (EnochBethany (talk) 22:58, 28 November 2012 (UTC))
 * I wouldn't worry about them; they don't provide sources at all. In any case, I provided one. Platinum Star (talk) 06:12, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Your source was acceptable, though it really is a primary source (Telemundo itself). However, I don't think it is better than mine, a trailer put out on YouTube.  But I don't think primary sources can be avoided on telenovelas.  There should be special rules for editing articles on telenovelas.  One just isn't going to get enough information from secondary sources like Telenovela magazines, which also may not be reliable.  Persons get information primarily from the networks and from watching the shows.  BTW, I don't know why someone is vandalizing my contributions to this article.  Does someone dislike Carla Hernandez and wish it were Gaby Espino? (EnochBethany (talk) 06:20, 30 November 2012 (UTC)(
 * What about this? It's recent, and it clearly states that Carla Hernandez will also star, along with "others". Also, I use info from Starmedia and TVnotas as sources, and I have yet to receive complaints about it. Platinum Star (talk) 06:30, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I have no complaints whatever. There apparently has been a great fan uprising vs Telemundo for not putting Gaby Espino opposite Jencarlos, LOL.  So I have to wonder if some people are in denial and don't want Carla in the telenovela. (EnochBethany (talk) 21:22, 30 November 2012 (UTC))
 * Someone continues to edit war here without discussing anything on this talk page. I added another reference dated to Nov 16, 2012.  Kindly stop the edit war.  If someone has better proof that Carla Hernandez is not in this telenovela, let the person(s) post the proof here.  The following quote tells what happens in the book, novel, written c. 1900 from which this story comes:


 * SPOILER WARNING! The below would be considered a spoiler for those who want to watch Pasion Prohibida without knowing what is in the original Turkish novel!


 * We see in the trailer Carla Hernandez (Mariana) with a pistol. From that picture & from the following summary of the Turkish book, my guess is that Carla will have a prominent role at the start of the story, but commit sewer pipe before too long. My guess is that Carla who plays Mariana, will do the role of Bihter in the original.


 * QUOTE:


 * A story about an extra-marital love affair and the difficulty of the status of women in the Ottoman period. Bihter, an attractive lady married to Adnan who is much older then herself, falls in love with Behlül and experiences a passionate affair with him. However Behlül, a moody adventurist, is bored with this relationship after a short while and falls in love with Nihal, who is the stepdaughter of Bihter. A short time before the marriage of Behlül and Nihal, the family finds out about the ‘forbidden love’ affair of Behlül and Bihter. Bihter cannot take the pressure and commits suicide. This leads to a chain of events which leaves everyone in solitude.


 * UNQUOTE (EnochBethany (talk) 00:10, 2 December 2012 (UTC))


 * I found two interesting articles. It looks like Carla Hernandez and Gonzalo García Vivanco only "starred" in the trailer, as part of Telemundo's May 2012 upfront. Jencarlos Canela and Mónica Spear will be the stars of PP. The second source says that Carla won't star in PP because she's the star of RD. What i don't get is WHY Carla is mentioned in the source I provided. Perhaps she's going to have a special participation or be a secondary character?? Platinum Star (talk) 19:35, 2 December 2012 (UTC)


 * All we can go by is the sources, one of which is quite recent, apparently made after the filming began for PP. I don't know why Carla's starring in RD would prohibit her doing it again.  It appears that PP will replace RD in its time slot.  And RD finished filming some time ago.  As I say, my guess is that she will have the role of Bihter, an important role, but not the female protab.  The papel/role one sees in the trailer is an important role, but not that of the protag.  It may be sort of an original sin scenario.   I would not be surprised if Telemundo used Carla for this role to try to bring over her fans from Rosa Diamante.   So I think the while Carla was featured in the trailer, the trailer did not feature the starring role, but showed something early in the story which would be of immediate interest to the viewers familiar with Carla.  If I am correct at my guess, then Carla will have a very prominent role at the start & then commit suicide.  Thus her name can very well go at the top of the list.  But I am not going to edit war with Catherine SinAndChokeYou over where the name goes.  LOL (EnochBethany (talk) 02:34, 3 December 2012 (UTC))


 * Very true. It's possible for an actor/actress to star in another telenovela quickly. Look at Francisco Gattorno; he was in ADP in a supporting role, and he quickly decided to star in AV as the main villain. AV replaced ADP in Mexico btw. IF a reliable source confirms that Carla isn't going to star in PP, then her name shall be erased; until then, her name will be left alone. Platinum Star (talk) 04:43, 3 December 2012 (UTC)


 * "will be left alone"? Are you a prophet?  LOL.  If so, a false-prophet!  ROFL.  The Vandalism continues. (EnochBethany (talk) 17:39, 3 December 2012 (UTC))


 * Not what I meant at all. I'll have to request full page protection since this is getting out of hand. Platinum Star (talk) 23:36, 3 December 2012 (UTC)


 * BTW, I was so disappointed with Gattorno, how he never bit the lip of Itati Cantoral & then fell off the horse in LVDB when they were smooching on a horse ride. But he did manage to break something somehow.  That's what is needed.  A Wiki article on injuries of actors in making telenovelas.  But yes, it is hard to be certain of a cast until the show starts.(EnochBethany (talk) 05:26, 4 December 2012 (UTC))

REVERTING CONTINUES
Without any discussion, someone seems bent on removing Carla Hernandez from this article, despite the secondary sources provided. The Reverting is coming from bare URL 196.42.26.121, no editor name. No sources are cited by the vandal. I undid the reverting. (EnochBethany (talk) 23:50, 4 December 2012 (UTC))
 * Youtube videos of trailers are not acceptable sources. You have also not attempted to engage the IP in discussion at all.  Furthermore, please read WP:NOTVAND.  That the IP is removing original research indicates that they are trying to help the site, which does not meet WP:Vandalism. Ian.thomson (talk) 18:05, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The reverters have been challenged several times to discuss the conflict here on the talk page without any response. There is no original research posted whatsoever on Carla Hernandez.  A variety of sources have been cited, as good as one is likely to find for telenovelas aside from primary sources (which are supposedly not to be used.)   Trailers put out by Telemundo, the producer of this telenovela and posted on YouTube are certainly valid, if not conclusive evidence.  In fact the material on Carla Hernandez in this article stands out by having sources cited for it, as opposed to much of the rest. (EnochBethany (talk) 04:49, 7 December 2012 (UTC))
 * Again, read WP:NOTVAND. The IPs are removing material that does need to be removed as well.  You have not contacted any of the IPs about their edits, not all users pay attention to edit summaries.  Seeing how none of the IPs leave edit summaries, it's safe to assume they do not know about them.  Have you tried restoring only the Carla Hernandez material without restoring the youtube-sourced original research?  Calling someone a vandal from the get-go just because you disagree with their edits (unless their edits definitely meet WP:Vandalism) is biting the newcomers, and can be considered a personal attack.  Did you consider that your attitude contributed to them not discussing matters?  Ian.thomson (talk) 15:19, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I disagree with you. Edit summary lines are not to be ignored.  And in particular Mickie777 has been contacted not only by Edit summary lines (which are not to be ignored) but also on Mickie777's talk page starting Nov 30.  It is impermissible for an editor to continue to erase documented lines of an article without providing any documentation to the contrary and without discussing it on the talk page.  If Carla Hernandez is not in this telenovela (despite the sources that say so, posted by two editors ), I am happy for CH's name to be removed from the cast.  And the editor who wants to remove her from the cast has an obligation to discuss it here.  (EnochBethany (talk) 00:26, 8 December 2012 (UTC))
 * Read WP:Assume good faith. It is entirely possible for new editors (such as IP editors) to not even know that page histories exist.  And have you demonstrated that Mickie777 is indeed those different IP editors?  Ian.thomson (talk) 01:44, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Read Wikipedia article on Ad Hominem. Have you considered which edits are supported with sources and which are merely ipsi dictus?     (EnochBethany (talk) 02:16, 8 December 2012 (UTC))

Please point to where I commented on you. That's what ad hominem means. You have violated that rule by calling the IP editors vandals, and by implying that Mickie777 is sockpuppeting without providing evidence. Ian.thomson (talk) 02:42, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Where did anyone say or imply that anyone was a sock puppet? Kindly quote. To locate the word "you," use Control-F.  If you have the suspicion of sock-puppet, where is your evidence? (EnochBethany (talk) 04:00, 8 December 2012 (UTC))
 * I would leave Carla's name alone unless another source states that she won't participate in PP. After all, anything is subject to change at anytime. Mickie777 is erasing her name from this article without explanation. Saying that she's not the protagonist is one thing, but this source doesn't say she's the main protagonist; it only says she's going to star along with Manuel Landeta and Cecilia Gabriela, which is not the same as "starring as the protagonist". That's the problem Enoch is trying to explain. I provided a source that states Jencarlos Canela and Mónica Spear starring as the main protagonists, which I hope it ends this fiasco. Also, I'd remove the linked trailers because they were uploaded by someone who has no connection with Telemundo (the real owner of those vids), which does fall under copyvio.

@Enoch: Try not to use pure capital letters in edit summaries because that's the equivalent to screaming. Platinum Star (talk) 05:01, 8 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Plat, it indeed is a widespread saying that capital letters is shouting. It is of course false. A shout is an auditory event. The reason for the capitals is someone's urging that dialog should be undertaken with whomever has been reverting the Carla Hernandez edits.  And caps might get the person's attention when they are just an IP so that whoever is involved will discuss the matter with us here.  But if you want to deem it a shout, go ahead..Shouting is not a sin and is appropriate in some circumstances.  Another matter is that IMHO a shout is not a scream; a scream is basically a female sound -- call it a bellow if you wish.  I don't know if you are a native Spanish speaker.  I think that gritar can be translated either way.


 * As to legal & ethical conduct, I am persuaded that the highest principle is to love neighbor as self. In the case of the trailers, the company that made them obviously wants everyone to see them and has no purpose in selling them.  Copying trailers does them good.  So I prefer to act on the principle of love instead of legalism.  YouTube will immediately remove them if Telemundo complains.  And I am sure that Telemundo is delighted to have its trailers disseminated.  Moreover, the reference to a video somewhere is not a copyright violation, even if that video is a copy which is a copyright violation in itself. The trailers are not given as citations after the cast entry for Carla Henderson = Mariana.  But the comparison of Mariana in PP & Bihter in the Turkish original is useful information for those who wish to appreciate the drama.  And the trailer is quite parallel to the Turkish section referenced. This is educational and not money-making. I see no tort involved.  (EnochBethany (talk) 06:06, 8 December 2012 (UTC))

The Evidence Against Carla Hernandez in PP
I am providing this category for anyone who has proof that Carla Hernandez is not in PP. In a telenovela, of course, it is difficult for one to be sure of the cast until the show comes on the air. I concede that it is quite possible that she will not end up in the show. (EnochBethany (talk) 06:17, 8 December 2012 (UTC))


 * According to Carla's Twitter page, she says she will not be in Pasion Prohibida. So feel free anyone who wants to remove her from the cast. (EnochBethany (talk) 23:16, 16 December 2012 (UTC))

YouTube as a source; original research
Hi fellow editors. I am Dianna and I am an administrator on this wiki. I just want to confirm to you that Wikipedia does not consider YouTube to be a reliable source for our articles. Taking the YouTube trailers and interpreting their contents as was done in is considered to be original research and has been removed for that reason. -- Dianna (talk) 16:16, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi While I don't agree with you, this is just a telenovela at any rate. (EnochBethany (talk) 23:21, 16 December 2012 (UTC))