Talk:Pasteurization/Archive 1

Photo
You could use this PD image. For PD rationale check Image:K.B.Sundarambal.jpeg. -- Sundar \talk \contribs 09:29, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

"Alternative pasteurization standards and raw milk" : Biased?
This section reads a bit like an anti raw milk pamphlet. Only the third paragraph is dedicated to explaining the benefits of unpasteurized products, and even then, these benefits are referred to as "perceived". The following eight paragraphs detail the dangers of raw milk products and the mere 200-300 people effected every year. Am I imagining the bias? Rachilinie 22:16, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, what bothered me about that paragraph was its meaningless insertion of '1 in a million'. That is 1 in a million _Americans_ NOT 1 in a million drinkers of raw milk. I'm removing that note because it is actively misleading to give it as a fraction of all Americans (without so noting) rather than as a fraction of raw milk drinkers. --Benjamin Franz 21:25, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Raw Milk
This entire section should be deleted. It is heavily biased in favor of raw milk, contains unsubstantiated claims, some of which are irrational, and offers no information of use to the dispassionate reader, only opinion. It is also badly written. The science of Pasteurisation is well documented and has been studied for years. Surely you could find a scientist to write this. As a veterinarian, I came to this page to update my knowledge on Pasteurisation since I last studied Bovine medicine 30 years ago. This page is an embarrassment and lowers my faith in Wikipedia as a valid source of information. Hacoah 18:30, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Reverted
The edits of 70.49.220.234 23:51, 29 November 2006 gutted any criticism of raw milk and removed references to the CDC and to illnesses caused by raw milk. It reduced an already poorly written article to down right awful. I've reverted back to the version of 15:05, 29 November 2006 CambridgeBayWeather (and trying to put back some of the minor edits re temps and other technical items). I'm sure I missed stuff but it is better than where we were. --Benjamin Franz 17:48, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Proposal to remove most of the raw milk debate
Having made the reversion yesterday I have continued to think about it more. It is not really appropriate for this article to be 80% about raw milk: The raw milk controversy has its own article. It seems to me this page should be stripped of essentially all the raw milk stuff (perhaps that material should be integrated with the raw milk article) and refocused to solely deal with Pasteurization (as it should) and reference the raw milk controversy by linking back to the raw milk article. Unless I hear some yelps in the next day or so, I'll do that. --Benjamin Franz 15:59, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Should it be -ize or -ise?
All the words ending -ize in the article were changed to -ise by the user 0s1r1s with the edit summary ''Changed from U.S. English to International English. Title needs correcting''.

It is incorrect to think that the -ize suffix is an Americanism (see Wiktionary) and it is in fact the recommended spelling by most British dictionaries including Chambers and the Oxford English Dictionary. Wikipedia's article on International English describes three different types of International English: British English with -ize spellings; British English with -ise spellings; and American English - two of the three types of International English use -ize. Should the -ise spellings in the article be changed back to -ize, or should the whole article be moved to Pasteurisation (it would be confusing to leave as it is, with the heading differing from the main body of text). Ukeu 14:09, 26 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately, international English is the English recognised by most dictionaries, except in the U.S. (notice recognised, not -ized). The title will be changed accordingly, after research from five very respected dictionaries from both the United Kingdom and my home country Australia. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Auroranorth (talk • contribs) 11:01, 12 February 2007 (UTC).


 * This topic definitely needs further exploration. It's not sensible to use Wiktionary as a source here, partly because it would present a conflict of interest, and partly because the article at Wiktionary is without sources itself.  Also, I failed to see "three different types of International English: British English with -ize spellings; British English with -ise spellings; and American English - two of the three types of International English use -ize." at International English.  I would like to see some evidence on the Oxford recommending the use of the -ize suffix.  Much of the body of the article Louis_Pasteur uses -ise.  Perhaps this should be reviewed?

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

NO CONSENSUS to move page, per discussion below. -GTBacchus(talk) 01:56, 19 February 2007 (UTC) Pasteurization → Pasteurisation —    * upon consultation with many International English dictionaries (-ization is an Americanism). Please look to move the page as soon as possible, as one person (in favour of all Americanisms, obviously) opposes it for some reason. Pasteurisation is the term used in most English speaking countries. Auroranorth 11:06, 12 February 2007 (UTC) This section added by Sig Pig  |SEND - OVER  12:26, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Survey

 * Add  # Support   or   # Strong Oppose   on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~ .  Please remember that this survey is not a vote, and please provide an explanation for your recommendation.

Survey - in support of the move

 * 1) Strongly Agree - not that I hate all things American, but Pasteurisation is how the world spells it. People, please give reasons to your opposition, rather than being a 'walk-by voter'. Auroranorth 13:40, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
 * All but one person did give reason for their opposition. Voretus 19:01, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Plus, your proposition is not supported by established guidelines. 1. American English is just as valid as British or Commonwealth or (insert adjective here) English. 2. When there's a dispute, go with the first major contributor. The article as it currently stands fits both criteria. -- Sig Pig  |SEND - OVER 19:10, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Survey - in opposition to the move

 * 1) Oppose. Insufficient rationale for move. Please see my comments below. -- Sig Pig  |SEND - OVER  12:53, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
 * 2) Strongly oppose.  Longstanding Wikipedia rules on national varieties of English, even if it weren't for the fact that "ization" is used quite often outside North America.  Gene Nygaard 20:07, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
 * 3) Vehemently oppose any arbitrary moving of AmE article titles to BrE article titles. Please look through 99999999999999.2 other discussions of this nature elsewhere on Wikipedia. Unless the subject is exclusively American or British, we keep what the article was originally written in. Voretus 20:16, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
 * 4) Oppose. -ization appears to be the original location of the page, therefore it should remain as the current location of the spelling.--Bobblehead 20:52, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
 * 5) Oppose Page move are for cases when the existing title conveys a misconception, or fails to convey some important information. Neither is the case here. To put it more bluntly, why should anyone bother with this instead of spending their time actually improving the encyclopedia? (Incidentally I'm American, but typically use British spelling these days). cab 04:33, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * 6) Oppose WP poilicy says both American and British spellings are acceptable, and guidelines specifically say a page like this should stay at it's original location (which is "iz" for this article). TJ Spyke 04:51, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * 7) Oppose for all the same reasons above. AME vs BE, same story. 205.157.110.11 21:22, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * 8) Oppose as per Wikipedia policy (even though I prefer ~ise) Jimp 06:43, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
 * 9) Oppose. --Serge 08:51, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
 * 10) Oppose - note that "international english" doesn't exist. Also original-spelling policy. --Yath 20:34, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Add any additional comments:


 * Please see the relevant policies/guidelines:
 * WP:UE: "All national standards of English spelling are acceptable on the English-language Wikipedia, both for titles and content. American spellings need not be respelled to British standards nor vice-versa; for example, both colour and color are acceptable and both spellings are found in article titles."
 * WP:ENGVAR: "Cultural clashes over grammar, spelling, and capitalisation/capitalization are a common experience on Wikipedia. Remember that millions of people have been taught to use a form of English different from yours, including different spellings, grammatical constructions, and punctuation. For the English Wikipedia, while a nationally predominant form should be used, there is no preference among the major national varieties of English; none is more "correct" than any other. However, there is certain etiquette generally accepted on Wikipedia, as listed here. These guidelines are given roughly in order of importance; those earlier in the list will usually take precedence over later ones:
 * Articles should use the same spelling system and grammatical conventions throughout. This has been violated by changing the spelling to -ise throughout, today, while the article has been consistently at -ize.
 * If there is a strong tie to a specific region/dialect, use that dialect. Does not apply here.
 * Try to find words that are common to all. Does not apply; this is an AmE vs BrE argument.
 * Stay with established spelling. "If an article has been in a given dialect for a long time, and there is no clear reason to change it, leave it alone. Editors should not change the spelling used in an article wholesale from one variant to another, unless there is a compelling reason to do so (which will rarely be the case). Other editors are justified in reverting such changes." Which I have done.
 * Follow the dialect of the first contributor. "If all else fails, consider following the spelling style preferred by the first major contributor (that is, not a stub) to the article." The first major contribution was here: American English.
 * Policy and guidelines do not support your request; therefore, neither can I. -- Sig Pig  |SEND - OVER 12:53, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

copied
this is another copied article. none of this information is origional. it was all taken from allexperts.com this is the link to the origional article. http://en.allexperts.com/e/p/pa/pasteurization.htm

this is the second time i've noticed this, so i sugest that other articles be checked. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.175.230.36 (talk) 20:35, 29 March 2007 (UTC).

Not copied
Actually it was allexperts.com, the commercial enterprise, that did the copying, not the many volunteers at Wikipedia! Read the small print at the bottom of the allexperts page - "This is the "GNU Free Documentation License" reference article from the English Wikipedia. All text is available under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License. See also our Disclaimer." (In which the phrase "reference article from the English Wikipedia" is a link to this article.) --DavidJField 05:18, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Rewrote raw milk debate
I thought the Alternative milk pasteurization standards section read too much like a government pamphlet and didn't fairly present the raw side. Last time I looked at the Raw milk article it needed even more work, so I decided to start here instead. I rewrote this section to focus only on alternative methods of pasteurization instead of including references to raw milk as an alternative _to_ pasteurization. I moved that content to a new section, titled Controversy. I then updated and corrected several parts of that section to be less POV and also include a pro raw citation. --DavidJField 08:18, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

I forgot to mention my source for the definition of double pasteurization: a letter from the IDFA to APHIS/USDA --DavidJField 08:32, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

More referenced in raw milk ?
When I read through the article, I thought the raw-milk part was a little caustic, and somewhat biased because the claims were not cited. One even mentioned a guy's name and the CDC, but shouldn't there be a link we can reference, or a journal or time and place to make this more credible? Also, I was hoping to learn more about the actual difference in taste with pasteurized milk vs. raw milk. I know this is a little biased in nature, but maybe if someone has some concrete examples, it'd be good info to have. Thanks.Rhetth 12:17, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Retth, I'm not sure how to provide concrete examples of taste across the web, but I can tell my own experience at least. I grew up drinking about 3 quarts of pasteurized milk a day (in my teen years). A few years ago we switched to raw milk from a local cow owner, and the difference was very definite and obvious. At first I couldn't help tasting a slightly grassy flavor, but I either got used to it or it was a feed problem that the owner figured out and corrected. It wasn't unpleasant anyway, just different. Second, it was Jersey milk, and the cream really does rise so thick you can spoon it out. It's almost as thick as sour cream at times, and yet the texture isn't what you're familiar with from storebought cream. You know how if you take a mouthful of storebought cream it leaves a fatty residue on the roof of your mouth and your teeth, like you tried to gargle with cold lard? Never happens with raw cream - it goes down as smooth as milk, just thicker and creamier tasting. If you don't know the residue I'm referring to, think of homemade ice cream made from storebought heavy cream, it often has that same texture. We skimmed most of the cream and made our own butter: whip it in the Kitchenaid mixer covered with a wet dishtowel for 5-15 minutes, depending on what the cow's been eating, sometimes it goes quicker, and then mash out the buttermilk and wash and mash some more until you can only squeeze out clear liquid. A wooden spoon or a large stiff silicone spatula works well. Save the first batch of buttermilk you pour off for making pancakes - none better. After butter-making, there would be about 1/8-cup of cream left in the remaining 3.5 pints of milk, which we shook up to mix back in every time we poured out milk. I figure that made it about 3.5% milk, but storebought 3.5% milk just isn't even close. The farm milk has a much richer flavor, even after removing most of the cream. Look at Realmilk.com to see if there is a source near you if you want a taste. --DavidJField 08:52, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

ojhg

Temperature Conversion Error
"UHT processing holds the milk at a temperature of 138 °C (250 °F) for a fraction of a second."

These temps make sense if 100 °C = 212 °F and each unit is the same quantity, but they're not. So 138 °C = 280 °F (or 250 °F = 120 °C). It would be best to go back to the source...

Jpvinall 02:32, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Crab
I added the crab bit because Dirty Jobs had someone (a worker) at a crab... place saying they pasteurize crab. Like first it's put through a, not really a blender but a crusher thing and made into a mush stuff, then pasteurized for crab soup, cakes, whatever they want to fill things with. And sorry I wasn't signed in. This thing signs me out even if I click to leave me signed in. .-. -Babylon pride 23:46, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

I think that it has some useful info
I think that it has some useful info, and it is a great homework help. Though there can be such a thing as too much info...

There is also such a thing as skimming.there are different types this article is not just written for school kids

There is no mention of what pasteurization does to the nutritional content.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.216.39.92 (talk) 06:49, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

"Controversy" section
Multiple users have commented on the inappropriateness of this section, especially in this particular article, which about more than milk. Therefore, I deleted the section from this article and moved it to United States raw milk debate.

Advocates of The Weston A. Price Foundation's Campaign for Real Milk seem to be using wikipedia to futher their agenda. Links to their site and articles (on other matters as well) are all over wikipedia (see my recent edits for some). I don't believe the "debate" page is encyclopedic, but it's a good place to consolidate their unsubstantiated claims about raw milk. Oddly, the WAPF wiki article does not yet mention its raw milk campaign. OccamzRazor 22:47, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Merge to UHT section
I oppose: pasteurization seems to be a process which REQUIRES refrigeration afterwards, UHT milk can be put in tetra-paks and kept for quite a while longer and without refrigeration. This kind of milk is not that common in the US because marketers found Americans didn't want to buy unrefrigerated milk, but in Europe, it's not hard to find, on shelves and also in the refrigerated section.

I could be wrong about this, but I've never seen simply pasteurized milk in a tetra-pak on a shelf, I don't think it would keep. These two are different things. Semodisesamo (talk) 21:02, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
 * NOt wrong, it shouldn't be merged, these are 2 very separate processes, and not the same thing.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pschemp (talk • contribs) 14:20, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Oppose merge - As previously mentioned, these are two separate processes. Further, the editor who placed the tag two months ago never provided a rational for merging.  It would have been helpful to know their opinion.  Two months, unanimous opposition and no interest in the merge... I'm pulling the tag.   AlphaEta  04:01, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

December 11/08 - Please expand this article. It does not talk about other pasteurizations like orange juice or grape juice. I am interested to know what kinds of juices and other liquids are pasteurized at. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.33.38.237 (talk) 19:40, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Added POV-Section tag
I added a POV tag to the milk tag since the concerns above seem to not be addressed. It talks about "growing research" re: raw milk, but points to an obscure book, not primary or scientific sources. IanBushfield (talk) 18:22, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Article needs a re-write
For an article about a process, this contains precious little information about that process. Nobody could read this article and emerge with a knowledge of pasteurization, hence we fail at being an encyclopedia! This cannot be tolerated. Wayne Hardman (talk) 01:14, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

What is pasteurization?
After reading this article, I still have no idea how to pasteurize. Fredthebass (talk) 21:35, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * It may benefit you to read what Wikipedia is not as you will discover, amongst other things, that Wikipedia is not an instruction manual. LittleOldMe (talk) 21:38, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed, Wikipedia is not an instruction manual; however, I still believe a brief description of the methods of pasteurization would be appropriate. It is only halfway through the article that we discover that heat is involved in this process. The process is briefly described for milk, but is there not a general process? Also, this sentence is quite misleading : "Pasteurization means heating water up to 80 degrees Celsius." I used Wikipedia to make sure I was using my semicolon correctly. Does that make Wikipedia an instruction manual? I don't mean to be rude or anything. I just think this article is missing quite a bit of information. Fredthebass (talk) 03:03, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Recent Changes
Changed section title from "effectiveness of pasteurization" to "effect of pasteurization." Effectiveness refers to whether or not it works, effect refers to how it works. I also made it more balanced, because it kinda sounded weighted by the pro-pasteurization association. I pointed out that it stifles cheese production (and is probably designed this way), since it kills most bacteria, not just the bad stuff. Bulmabriefs144 (talk) 04:06, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Pronunciation
Where does this pronunciation come from? I for one have never heard the word said with a an /ɑ/. — trlkly 03:51, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Needs editing for clarity
Guys, this is kinda silly, but toward the end of the first paragraph under the "Pasteurization of milk" heading, read the following words: "...as a result milk is now widely considered to be one of the safest foods."

Okay, I could get with that if it weren't for:

"...making it one of the world's most dangerous food products." At the end of paragraph five under the SAME HEADING! LoL.

What's really funny is both these statements are referenced..........WTF? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.12.59.224 (talk) 10:58, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

RE: "Needs editing for clarity"– The end of the first paragraph talks about pasteurized milk, while the fifth paragraph talks about raw milk. It's written pretty clearly. 135.23.71.39 (talk) 03:32, 9 October 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 135.23.71.39 (talk) 03:19, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Alternative theory
actualy I have an alternative theory for any science buffs as to what your seeing and pasteur may have been incorrect.

I believe that may not be looking at micro-organizms growing on wine and pasteur made an easy mistake. I dont doubt microbes exist (thiers microscopic evidence to show living micro-organisms in blood for example) not to come off as a quack, this is just not the case for wine and fruit juices as well as milk (milk has water as well as protiens etc.) or any liquids with a water based content that are not water should be classified as semifluids/solids. What pasteur saw I believe can be easily explained as the process of evaporation of semi fluids. Because wine has grape pulp and water (fruits have water content), water is the first thing to evaporate, leaving the grape pulp remains. I believe this is the scummy residue pasteur incorrectly thought was "micro-organisms" he was simply seeing the wine evaporate, the water content evaporates first leaving the grape pulp remains and they also become gaseous and decompose do to heat. Discoloration is due to the chemicals in the water/fluid content of the wine/grape evaporating causing the wine to change color as the chemicals that leave it and also when something is heated it changes color when cooked/heated (becoming darker). The reason refrigeration keeps the wine from "spoiling" is because it stops evaporation, the colder anything water based is the longer it will last. A simple test proving this can be done in temperature conditions predicting "microbial" growth, the colder the temperature the less "microbial growth", the higher/warmer the temperatures the faster the microbrial growth showing that your not looking at microbes eat the wine your simply looking at the wine decompose and become gaseus through natural process of evaporation. the microbes/scummy residue your looking at are simply the grape pulp decomposing and becomeing gaseus after the water in the wine evaporates. the same thing happens when you cook pancakes, pancake batter is a semi fluid, heat causes the water content to evaporate first changing the "batter" into the bread. if you cook it any longer than normal it will burn up and become gaseous, both solids and liquids become gaseous when heated, liquids will become gaseous at lower temperatures, solids take longer unless higher temperatures are used.

I also believe the same thing is true for "mold" growing on fruit, your actualy just seeing the water evaporate and chemicals out of the fruit in the water changing the color and darkening the fruit.fruit decomposes as the fruit becomes gaseous. So when you see fruit rot your just looking at decomposition and the fruit becoming gas, not mold/something growing. This is why smells generaly accompany moldy or spoiled food, your smelling the food become gaseous. fruits also last longer refrigerated because anything with water based content lasts longer the colder it is. This means mold is not "growing" on bread or fruits, simply bread has small amount of water content to it and as the chemicals in bread leave through evaporation as well as your simply watching the bread become a gas as both liquids and solids evaporate through heat. So esentialy bread and fruits evaporate if you want to look at it like that over time in warm conditions lol. This also easily shown you should be able to put bread in the freezer and prevent completely "mold" growing as again foods because of small amount of water content last longer frozen. humans and animals also decompose and become gaseous over long periods of time of course not to sound morbid. LOL. In my opinion fruit stops growing when it is removed from the vine wich is why it has a limited shelf life. another test would be to heat win this in an temperature controled heated airless invironment (room temperature or warmer), obviously if your looking at microbes you wont get microbial growth from the wine pulp (microbes wont grow in an airless invornment), im betting that the wine will evaporate showing the same scummy residue normaly in airless conditions still leaving the "scummy microbial residue" showing your looking at grape pulp in the wine become gaseous as it decomposes, not microbial growth as microbes would not grow in an heated airtite invoronment. the reason this research would be important is in cases of contaminations like typhoid fever (caused by spoiled fruit drinks) and salmonella, these may be misclassified and are poisions/poisioning as it also shows that liquids that are not water would change thier chemical state and the gradual heating and decaying through evaporation is what creates the poision in the case of milk etc. not because of micro-organisms. poisioning causes simliar symptoms as the flu. whats most likely happens is temperature causes the milk and other organic fruits as well to change its chemical structure as liquids are evaporated from it during the heating process. in the case of pasteurization for milk, poisionous chemicals are evaporated out of the milk during pasteurization. however gradual heat can actualy cause noxious and poisionous chemicals to form as chemicals leave milk as well as certain fruit juices. alot of what i see on youtube videos as "growing" looks more like excreetion of chemicals as fruits rot and decompose, chemicals are excreeted and the pulp and solids are visibly seen as the liquid/water content is the first thing to evaporate in milk/fruit juices.

It appears that you gents as well as pasteur are unaware that solids are capable of evaporation over time, to also prove it leave a piece of bread out (up high not to attract mice) you'll generaly notice in 3 or 4 weaks the bread is no longer thier in my opinion do to evaporation and simply the bread becoming gaseous through gradual heat not micro-organisms eating the bread. metals last the longest out of solids wich is why recycling is important. you should be able to see the same process by vacumme sealing fruits/breads and heating them showing that micro-organisms are not eating the foods, thier simply decomposing and becoming gaseous do to heat (extreeme cold can do this as well).

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Alanfunkle (talk • contribs) 14:43, 28 August 2010 (UTC)


 * Microbes in wine? Wine (and even small beer) contains enough ethanol to prevent most microbe growth.  It is suspected that this is a primary reason for the popularity of alcoholic beverages;  even if most water sources are not safe to drink from, beer is mostly harmless.  Desirable yeast colonies might survive fermentation, but brewer's yeast is bred to survive just until it produces the expected final ABV.   Yeast growth is self-limited by its own excreted alcohol  and no yeast will survive in 25% ABV,  although some strains can get close to that.


 * Wine is refrigerated (or at least kept somewhere cool) mainly to slow chemical reactions, which can corrupt flavor in various ways.  Cool temperatures also tend to disfavor unwanted compounds going into solution and becoming detectable.   Bottled wine does not spoil for any other reason.   Bag in box wine will not spoil readily (even after opening it has less direct exposure to air)  but some chemicals that glass keeps out  will leach through plastic.


 * Remember also that common alcohols evaporate more readily than water.


 * bÐ i (116.97.108.107) 02:03, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Repasteurization Internet rumour
There is a rumour going around the internet (at least in emailing lists I'm in...) that if milk cartons are not sold at supermarkets within their expiry dates, they are taken back to the factory/dairy farm and repasteurized. According to the email this is allowed by law to happen up to five times (after that the taste of the milk has changed from the desirable), hence the number (1-5) that can be found printed/pressed at the bottom of the carton. Industry people however say that the number at the bottom signifies the number of the machine that was used to put milk in the carton (so that in the extremely rare case of carton recall they can find the machine that has the problem, plus inform the public by using the number). So my question is: Can you repasteurize milk? My logic dictates to me that if milk has passed its expiry date it can not be saved. If anyone knows for sure I think this info could be added to the article (as trivia or something like that I suppose). Thanx. Kalambaki2 20:51, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

This rumor is obviously false. Firstly, it would not be at all profitable to have the expired milk shipped back to the plant, and then somehow screened to tell which milk was still good and which was not. Even if it was economical, theres no way that milk companies could get away with that without everyone knowing about it. It's common knowledge that milk usually still tastes fine after the expiry date. This is especially true if the milk has not been opened or removed from refrigeration. No matter how bad the milk has gone it would still be possible to repasteurize it, since pasteurization is simply a process for killing off micro-organisms. Of course any souring that had already occurred before the pasteurization would not be reversed, since the souring of milk is caused by chemical changes ,brought on by the presence of too many of the wrong kinds of micro-organisms. I would be more specific but I really dont have that knowledge. Suffice to say it probably has something to do with bacteria, yeasts, or molds feeding on the milk and excreting nasty bi-products. Matt Munson Oct 13 2007


 * Really? http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=fac&group=35001-36000&file=35831-35834 "Repasteurized milk may only be reprocessed and sold as a

"Grade A" product under the following conditions and restrictions:.......... (2) Equipment, designated areas, or rooms utilized for handling, processing, and storage of returned packaged milk or milk products.......The repasteurization of milk and milk products shipped in milk tank trucks, which have been pasteurized at another Grade A milk plant and have been handled in a sanitary manner and maintained at 45 degrees Fahrenheit (7 degrees Celsius) or less, is permitted.." And the US Army reported that re-pasteurized milk was not fit for the troops :http://cdm15290.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/ref/collection/p15290coll6/id/1301 and and interesting reason why milk shipped to Hawaii is re pasteurized http://archives.starbulletin.com/2006/10/08/news/kokualine.html24.0.133.234 (talk) 00:11, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Preventing Disease
This sentence is in the first section under MILK. "Diseases prevented by pasteurization can include tuberculosis, brucellosis, diphtheria, scarlet fever, and Q-fever; it also kills the harmful bacteria Salmonella, Listeria, Yersinia, Campylobacter, Staphylococcus aureus, and Escherichia coli O157:H7,[18][19] among others."

Pasteurization cannot prevent disease, it can kill bacteria that cause disease. Now it might be that before the widespread implementation of pasteurization, the listed diseases were commonly transmitted by milk. No doubt the advent of pasteurization reduced the incidence of these diseases, but it didn't prevent them. Cpergielx (talk) 00:54, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

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Facts Wrong?
There is something weird about the small history it gives of Pasteurization. It says that it was: "first suggested by Franz von Soxhlet in 1886" yet if you go over to the Louis Pasteur article, it says he and Claude Bernard did the first test of pasteurizing milk in 1862, 14 years before this article states Franz "suggested" it. My research shows that Franz was the one to look into Pasteurization of breast milk, not animal milk. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.42.81.240 (talk • contribs)


 * Nicholas Appert found out that if you sealed food in an airtight container (a wine bottle in this case) and boiled for several hours that the food would not spoil. Of the 18 bottles of partridges, vegetables, and gravy that Appert sent Napoleon  “every one of which had retained its freshness, and not a single substance had undergone theleast change at Sea.” ( M. Appert, Nicolas Appert. 1812. The Art of Preserving All Kinds of Animal and Vegetable Substances for Several Years).  While Appert didn't know the mechanism by which his food was kept fresh he could be said to be the true father of Pasteurization--2606:A000:7D44:100:49CD:4240:B461:8F76 (talk) 13:03, 4 September 2016 (UTC)


 * No that wouldn't be Pasteurization but sterilization - very different. Pasteurization happens at around 70 oC for a few seconds. Sterilization is at or above 100 oC for extended periods. The effects are markedly different.  Velella  Velella Talk 13:31, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

Table 1?
There's a reference to "Table 1 below" at the beginning of the article, but it seems that the table itself was either never present, or that it has been removed since. Can somebody who understands the topic better than I reinstate it? Groogle (talk) 22:40, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I have removed this section - the entire text was copy-and-paste from "milkfacts.info" and there are no sources to back up this information. The author who added that detail has made no other contributions so I've gone ahead and taken it off the article as the detail was very focused around milk and was all covered in the section below. Happy to be challenged. Cpl Syx  [talk] 11:00, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

Great Scott
The article says pasteurization was invented in 1864, yet practiced in 1773 and 1802. I'm assuming the process involves the use of a flux capacitor. And that the grading process of students who site this page involves a red pen. 174.20.7.227 (talk) 06:27, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

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Page spelling
As the word PASTEURISATION originates from French the correct spelling is with an S not the Americanized [sic] Z. As such the page and most of its contents should be changed to reflect this (with the lead sentence switched). Angry Mustelid (talk) 23:37, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): JoshuaRustia. Peer reviewers: Herna327, Ldawidoff.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 06:11, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Pasteurised milk linked to increase in estrogen in men and boys
It should be mentioned not only the 'benefits' of milk pasteurisation but also the effect it has on mens' hormone levels. Take this study for example, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19496976/, in which pasteurised milk is shown to have increased the oestrogen levels in men and boys. Raw milk does not have the same effect, since the progesterone inhibits the oestrogen's influential effects. Polynilium (talk) 20:42, 19 June 2022 (UTC)