Talk:Patel

Patel Hotel Motel Cartel
seriously? you really want to add that? no one even uses that. thats all FOB stuff.

VfD Debate
This article was kept after this VfD debate. Sjakkalle 14:26, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

VP patel, "Bharat ke 5Lp patel; C"
On 01:38, 25 August 2006, anon IP 68.154.33.6 added a reference to the book Bharat ke Chaudhary by VP Desai. I can't find any evidence of its existence outside of Wikipedia. Help anyone? --Adamrush 03:19, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Rate of Patels?
In the 'Patels in Britain' section, it says "rate of Patels." Although I am not a geographer, I think it is a bit ironic to use the word rate. Bhaveer 19:49, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

List of Patels
Should the List of Patels be its own page? A search of wikipedia shows that the list on this page isn't nearly exhaustive. Akubhai 20:13, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Ethnicity
I tried to clean it up a little but most of it doesn't cite sources and doesn't make sense. It should probably be erased and started over. Akubhai 17:12, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Merge with Patil?
Maybe we should merge with Patil - Patel is just a variant of Patil. &mdash; Stevey7788 (talk) 18:13, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * No objection here. --Adamrush 02:20, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Assuming they are just variants of each other, no objection here either Akubhai 15:46, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
 * They are not variants of each other. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.66.4.10 (talk) 11:23, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

No Patils from Mahratha have lost their pure genes for the most part and have mixed bred with other groups. I don't claim any relation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.234.149.102 (talk) 22:09, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

There is no relation between Patel and Patil. Both has different origin and history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.148.46.180 (talk) 02:40, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Fixing the "citiation needed sections"
How do we go about fixing this article? Can I just remove the sentences that are tagged "citation neeeded" and start over again? rahul 23:25, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Patel does equal to Patidar!
I was surprised when clicking on the link Patidar brought me to page dedicated to Patel. Patel is a caste as Kanbis or Patidars. The use of lastname Patel cut across castes, religions and regions. I think the claim by Kanbi caste (both the Leuva and Kadwa) of Gujarat on name Patel is within Hindu caste system holier than thou (Sanskritization process as its called in India) by adapting to high sounding name for their caste. In other parts of Gujarat the last name Patel is used by members of other castes.

Hence, this page is totally misleading in terms of defining surname Patel as it seems the page has been created solely by members of Kanbi caste to paint themselves as Patels. Dcpatel (talk) 21:43, 28 December 2007 (UTC) I have also learned that the first wave of farmers invited by the kings of North Gujarat were called Kanabis. These Kanabees (KANA=GRAIN and BEE=SEED)were immigrants from the farm lands of the Punjab lured to Gujarat with the promise of the free land. The king had land, the kanabis had skill. The kanabis told the kings the stories of beautiful fair complexioned ladies of the Punjab. The kings brought some of these women as their mistresses. The children of these mistresses were flesh and blood of the kings. They were given five villages or six villages of land to cultivate with the full ownership. These descendants have more of greek features in them as compared to the kanabis. They are taller, lighter in skin complexion, and display aura of landlords. I had read this in 1987 in a scholarly journal published by Gujarat University branch in Ahmedabad. I wish I had written down the source. And now I cannot reference it without the publication details. On my next visit to India, I will try to find it. The strange aftermath is that those descendants beget by the mistresses look down on the kanabis as inferior and of lower status.

Ok I want to say somethings about moving upward in Sanskrit,

First it's done by cast which are from lower strata of society i.e. in current India OBC, SC, ST. Kanbis and kolis are upper cast group( Uzariat) as known in Gujarat. Anjana and Chowdharis are OBC( other backward class), Dholias are ST( Schedule Tribe) so only Leua,Kadava and koli are consider as upper caste in Gujarat. About Anjana Chowdharis are doing it to move upward and prove self as Kshatriya in first para we can see that. No need to jump your guns but keep article as Contemporary as possible and remove remarks of Shudras and such( we don't call OBC groups Shudras though they enjoy reservation policy benefit). OBC are backward cast and they were in pastoral business in past( not now like Yadavas, Ahirs, Choudharis). Agriculture was never shudra work, only in south India it was said so cause they have only two casts Brahmanas and Shudras( their king was also called Shudra sometime because of late Brahmanization). Uttame Kheti, Madhyme Vepar, Kanisthe Chakari so Agricuture was never lower caste job. Kadava,Leuva and koli still enjoy Upper Caste status in Gujarat change it accordingly or just make it article for Patel surname only including Muslims.

Sources are as follows( You can read them if you like they are not about Patel but Ancient and Medieval Indian History) Wonder that was India, A L Basam. RUPA CO. Early India, Romila Thapar. PENGUIN. An Advanced History of India, R C Majumadar, Raychudhari, Datta. MACMILLAN. The Mughal Empire, J F Richards, Cambridge. Medieval India, Satish Chandra, HAR ANAND. A Histroty of South India, K A Nilakanta Sastri, OXFORD. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.99.160.167 (talk) 19:52, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Ethnicity section
This section needs fixing. It's entirely unclear where the quote begins and where it ends. It would be good if someone with knowledge of the topic could address that. Akerbeltz (talk) 23:17, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Intro rewrite
I've rewritten the introduction. I hope that it's now easier to read. Maikel (talk) 11:38, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Patels?
Just reading the first paragraph (let alone the whole article), it's quite apparent is not even 50% correct. (Hindu) Patels are not one group, it contains many castes and if you go to a city like Ahmedabad, you will see they don't even mix. In fact, many of the lower caste Patels don't even mixed with the higher caste Patels. The Patel dispora again is not united in either North America or the UK.

And it should be pointed out that not all Patels are descended from one group of people. Like most groups in India (and South Asia), they are descended from various groups of people.

I won't put this into the article, since the 'self-appointed' editors will remove it, but why were the sections removed, it now looks like someone has just copied and pasted in their essay they once wrote for a school project. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.131.110.103 (talk) 09:45, 15 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I've tried to change some of this, noting that Patel is just an overall name. Also noting that Gujarat Patels are Shudra; still looking for a good footnote about Jat Patels.  I'm seeing a lot of references to "jat-patels", as in "managers of a jat".  Anyone have any good refs on the widespreadness of the term Patel regardless of caste? MatthewVanitas (talk) 20:38, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

See Also: Removed spam
I've removed the Patel Matrimony spam placed in the article (and on the discussion page).Es330td (talk) 14:54, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Dubious change
This change was really dubious. Don't know what to do about it. --Ettrig (talk) 08:44, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I wish you had reverted it. Drmies (talk) 15:08, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

WHATS THE RELATION AMONG GUJRATI PATELS AND KURMIS ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.253.181.150 (talk) 19:49, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Patels in England, 14th century
While the surname PATEL does not appear in Bardsley's "A dictionary of English and Welsh surnames"(London, 1901), I encountered a whole batch of people of this surname in court rolls of the manors of Walsham le Willows in Suffolk, in the 14th century. These seem highly unlikely to have any connection with India. My source is "The Court Rolls of Walsham le Willows, 1351-1399", edited by Ray Lock; Suffolk Records Society, vol. XLV, 2002 - Gordon Johnson, Caithness, Scotland. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.153.166.99 (talk) 23:34, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

The thrust of this article is the surname Patel that originated in India. You'd be mistaken if you assumed that it only ever originated from India. There is a history of the Patel family name in other countries of Europe, including France, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the Patel name from India. It's most likely that the 14th century Patel was originally from Europe, and likely with French origin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.196.161.203 (talk) 05:57, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

3 or 4 ?
"Patels are separated in 3..." and then we have a list of 4?178.149.135.33 (talk) 20:17, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Etymology Section
I found the following information about the etymology of the word:

According to the Oxford Hindi Dictionary, the word paTel has two definitions: 1. headman of a village; village elder. 2. name of a Gujarati trading community. Nothing about hotels. Could it just be a case of end rhyme?

The OHD etymology for paTel traces it back to Sanskrit paTTakila-. This is derived from the word paTTa, meaning 'a slab, tablet' (for painting or writing upon); (esp.) a copper plate for inscribing royal grants or orders'. From this last sense (plus ?khila, 'piece of land') comes the word paTTakila meaning 'the tenant (by royal edict) of a piece of land'.

The same last-name semantic pattern obtains in other parts of India: Rao and Reddy in Andhra Pradesh, and Chaudhury in Bengal, all meaning village headman hereditary caste.

Could this be inserted in the Etymology Section? (which is currently empty) I tried to add myself but it got removed, which I'm guessing was because it's a link to a forum post? However they say that their source was Oxford Hindi Dictionary, which I cannot find online.. but I've no reason not to believe them. I see a lot of sources cited as just page numbers to books so perhaps it could cited as that, but I'm not familiar with all the rules.

Hindivindi (talk) 04:50, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Hindivindi, no matter who it claims to cite, a forum post is not a reliable source. --Neil N  talk to me 13:17, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

@NeilN, I did some further research and found the following results in Google Books search results which seem to support the above mentioned forum post.

Each village had a headman, the patel (the pattakila of ancient lithic and copperplace records), ...

Could this be considered a reliable source? Hindivindi (talk) 18:08, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Request to add this statement: Under leadership pf hardik patel, patels are fighting for backward caste. reliable source link:http://www.hindustantimes.com/india/tension-in-gujarat-after-patel-stir-hardik-detained-then-released/story-WYUrZtjK340qaB0w017X1O.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.107.58.116 (talk) 04:21, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

Required status column for Telaga caste. Mark as Forward caste
Wikepedia to add this content to Telaga Caste pages and also pass this information to the user who edits this page. Also, it is mentioned as backward peasant caste under Kapu Caste category which is incorrect information. They are classified as Forward Caste.

Telaga Caste

Telaga is a Community of the Indian state of Andhra Pradesh, concentrated primarily in the Coastal Areas of Andhra. The Telagas are Agriculturists by Profession and have been Fuedal landlords. Telaga is a Branch or a Division of the Kapu, or Naidu Community of Andhra. They have the caste title Naidu, Dora. They are classified as Forward Caste or OC category.

Contents Sub Castes

Origins

Legend

Telaga Names

Sub Castes The other SubCastes or Geographical Names of Telagas are

Kapu

Balija / Balija Naidu

Munnuru Kapu (Patels)

Turpu Kapu

Ontari

Naidu

Origins The Origin of the Telagas can be traced back to the Western Chalukyan Expansion into Andhra region which happened in the 6th century A.D. Telagas are the most ancient Warrior/Agricultural clans of the Deccan and South India who are specialised in warfare.

The term Telaga was a derivation of the word Telingana.Andhra was referred to as Telingana in the ancient texts as it was the area that had three major Shivinsa-Aramas, thus was called Tri-Linga', and the people living there were called Telugus and the language spoken by the people there was called Telugu.

The Telagas have served as Nayakulu (Governors),commanders and vassals of the Western Chalukya rulers under Pulakesin.These commanders were also called Telugu Nayakulu from which the community name might also might have been derived Telaga.

They formed the bulwark of Ancient armies of the Deccan and South India like Cholas,Pallavas,Chalukyas,Kakatiyas etc.They seem to have a connection with the Eastern Chalukyas.

The Vassals of Chalukyas entered into Matrimonial Alliances and ultimately established the Chalukya- Chola Dynasity. Etukuri Balaramamurthy and Colin McKenzie in fact mentione that these Telagas or Kapu communnity are the Descendants of these were these Telugu Cholas.

Telugu Cholas The Telugu Cholas rules for over Four Centuries the various regions of Andhra.

Important ruling Clans were

Velanati Choluluof Palnadu War who supported Bramha Naidu in his war against the Nalagam Raju.

Renati Cholas

Konidena Cholas

Nannuru Cholas

Nellore Chola Kings

After the fall of the Easten Chalukyan kingdoms and the Velanati Cholas. The Telagas had to serve under the Kakateeyas as Vassals and accept their Suzzienarity.Under the new rulers they were given the title Nayaka/Nayakudu and played a major role in shaping the history of modern Andhra.

After the fall of the Kakateeyas the Telagas under Kaapaya Nayaka and Prolaya Nayaka led the battle against the invading Bahamanis by combining forces with the Reddy,Velama and Balija Nayaks and liberated the Andhra Country from Tyrranny nd Destruction.

Telagas had matrimonial Alliances with the Kakateeya and Vijayanagar Rulers.Araveeti Rama Raya the son in law of Krishna Devaraya and the ruler of the last Dynasity of Viajayanagar was a Tealaga. This family was a Eastern Chalukyan Fuedataory called the Arayeti Family which became Araveeti in due cource of time.

With Vijayanagara coming into power the Telagas served under the new rulers and were Dispatched off to Protect the farflung regions of the empire to Tamil Nadu and were posted as Nayaks and took up Administration as Nayaks/Nayakers. The most famous Telaga General was Viswanatha Nayaka who started the Madurai Nayak Dynasit. -- Source Penugonda Charitra..

After the fall of the Vijayanagar Empire in the Battle of Talikota large sections of Telagas migrated towards the North and settled down in their Native Country the Godavari deltas and took to agriculture.And some of them went further South and settled down in the Tanjavur region and joined the Tanjavur Nayaks Army.

Telagas are known for their bravery and fearlessness aptly put by a famous Telrugu Saying describing the community "Teginche vade Telaga" which means "One who dares is a Telaga".Even now we can find swords,armours and weapons with some of the Telaga families in Rajamundry.All of these people are Vaishnavas and have Sri Venugopala Swami has their family deity.

Another Legendary Instance of Telaga Bravery was exhibited during the Bobbili War fought between the Velama Kingdom and the Vizianagaram kingdom led by Vijayaram raju. When all seemed lost for the Bobbilli Ranga Rayudu the Bobbili King before riding out to war in no mood to submit the honour and the Dignity of the Royal House Ordered all of his commanders to Execute their Families before riding out to meet their fate. Accordingly the Telaga and Velama Commanders and Soldiers Executed their families before proceeding out to war. Viajayaramaraju was laid to rest by a valiant Telaga Commander Miriyala Venkata Rao along with Papa Rayudu. -- Bobbili Charitra

Legend Pulakesin II’s brother, Kubja Vishnu Vardhana, founded the Eastern Chalukya Empire after he was appointed Viceroy of Vengi and gave many of his trusted generals fiefdoms to rule over as his vassals and took up reign as Telaga Nayakulu (Governors). Most of the Telagas are fuedal landlords concentrated mainly in the coastal areas of Andhra.

Telaga Names The Telagas are also called Naidu and they also have prefixes like Setty and Reddy in their names denoting their Profession

Popular Surnames

Some of the surnames are derived from the Weapons used by this warrior community Sunkara, Tupakula, Kathula

And Other Surnames are Village names and Names which came out of their Professions having suffixes like Setty and Reddy KATIKIREDDY, Putta, puppala, gundubilli, Nagam, Reddipalli, pupala, vempala, basava, battula, tellakula, masupu Yerramsetti, Ayitham, Chikkam, Chinimilli, Palacholla, Nimmakayala, Bonam, Dasari, Dodda, Doddi, Vuragayala, Chilakalapalli, Davala, Konidela, Nalanagula, Allu, Kota, Kaikala, Kambala, vejju, Adabala, Pappula, Vangaveeti, Addagarla, Sunkara, Cheruku, Kondra, Kolla, Gandham, Chodisetty, Polisetty, Pilla, Turumulla, Tirumalasetti, Majji, Mande, Mucherla, Namburu, Neelam, Padala, Kommana, Yerrabolu, Alla, Bontha, Batreddi, Konidena, Dwaram, Theegala, Thota,Tuta, Mallepudi, Koppana,Koppusetty, Ramisetty, Rangisetty, Nagisetty, Kamisetty, elisetti, mokka, Koppireddy, Kunche, Grandhi, Savaram, Surabattula, Siddireddi, Oosuri, Yadla, Vaddi, Ambati, Yenugula, muppidi, Yalavarthi, Tanneru, Gatti, Badiga, Akula, uppu, nallam, chintalapudi, villa, maddimsetty, tadi, rednam, ganji, bhimala, kotipalli, mutyala, katnam, akkireddy, vungarala, pinaka, Pinisetty, kethinidi, kasireddy, nukala, arigela, yedida, akasam, saladi, ghanta, davuluri, desamsetty, chilaka, vallamsetty, Ravada, Rudra, Singamsetty, Sanam, Nandam, Kantamsetty, Yepuri, Allu, Gurram, Yedida, yarra, sirigineedi, kunapareddi, nagireddi, mutyala, jagata, guruju, tikkisetti, adapa, addala and arava. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:48:C500:F392:C4E4:F227:98A1:9446 (talk) 01:20, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Koli Patel is a subcaste of Patidar
Patidar's history is an interesting socio-economic narration of two castes from the medieval times, namely, peasant caste Kanbi and warrior Koli. Before the British land reforms were introduced in central Gujarat and Saurashtra, Kanbis and Kolis enjoyed equal socio-economic status. The British Raj land reforms came in two forms in Gujarat. Under one category a village was considered as land revenue unit and the ownership of land was given to the entire community. The Kanbis adopted this practice. The Koli villages adopted the other form where a landlord treated as a unit for land revenue cultivation. A number of ryots (cultivators) worked under him. The landlord was responsible for payment of tax. Over the time, the Kanbi villages proved better both in payment of land revenue and creation of wealth on the account of more produce from the land. Kolis found it difficult to till all the cultivable lands under one landlord. The Kanbi group had moved from upper Shudra class to Vaishya also Kolis upgraded from their previous position. The caste census of 1931 recognised Kanbis as Patidars for the first time as a distinct caste. Koli Patels are another sub-caste of Patidars in Gujarat. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 135.19.28.98 (talk) 01:33, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

Proposed merge of Patels into Patel
Both articles talk about the same subject. A merge is necessary to avoid near duplicate articles. Jalen Folf  (talk)  15:18, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. Polyamorph (talk) 19:06, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Merged as unopposed. Jalen Folf   (talk)  17:58, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 January 2024
People belonging to Munnuru Kapu Caste in Telangana is primarily Agrarian community and own lands. They are often referred as Patel's in Telangana region. Shashanksalla07 (talk) 08:26, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Liu1126 (talk) 12:08, 3 January 2024 (UTC)