Talk:Paterson, New Jersey

L'Enfant's Involvement
I believe the timeline presented in this article re: L'Enfant's involvement is incorrect. He was brought in *after* he was removed from the Washington, DC project--not before. That he used his plans for Paterson in his design for DC is completely unfounded and lacking historical evidence. L'Enfant was brought onto the DC project in 1790, and was removed nearly one year later. After that time, he was approached by Hamilton to assist with the Paterson project.

I suggest that the entire section be rewritten to correct this error.

Ultrapop101 (talk) 21:04, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Smallest House
What ever happened to the smallest house of Paterson at the end of Temple street?R. Willemsen Amsterdam Holland.

yes it is still there --Javierbaires1 18:20, 2 January 2007 (UTC)javierbaires1


 * hi 2601:582:4800:DCF0:352C:2891:A157:C6EA (talk) 22:47, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

New neighborhood content: too subjective?
It seems a bit redundant to have the neighborhood descriptions on the main Paterson page and have sub pages for each neighborhood as well.

In general I like how this article has expanded, but it seems like there is too much editorializing in the Neighborhoods section, for instance:

"Many shopkeepers have slapped cheap tile and tasteless awnings over the once-elaborate facades. Many stores also come and go because of the increase in taxes which adds on to the cheap and tasteless awnings."

I'm sure there is a more objective way to describe this...

sk- Being a Paterson resident, I found the article expansion too editorialized as well. 21st Avenue is not a neighborhood, for one thing, and claiming it "crackles with entrepreneurship" can be rewritten as "is populated by some notable restaurants but is otherwise a distant memory of better times."

Saying Wrigley Park is also known the "Fourth Ward" (in quotes) is upsetting, since the Fourth Ward is actually what it is, and "Wrigley Park" in quotes makes more sense.

Claims about South Paterson are equally suspect, especially with respect to investing and the demographics of shoppers. By the way, most of the people in that area are headed to Corrado's, in Clifton.

There needs to be an objective manner of stating this: "Paterson is Newark without a strong mayor, Jersey City without any decent businesses to attract white collar workers, and Camden without the battleship. In short, it's yet another New Jersey city that has yet to recover from the late 60s and early 70s."

geez, I live in Paterson, but I don't look down on this city like that. Wow. Anyways, does anybody knows the real population of Paterson? I know the city claims it is 150,000, but, I've seen it as high as 170,000 on some websites. Can anyone find out what the real population of this city is? Thanks.

I haven't always lived in Paterson, so I know better, i.e. I know what a real neighborhood is like, and I can appreciate things like respect for others and a rule of order. From the US Census, Paterson had 149,222 people as of 2000; estimate for 01-Jul-2004 is 150,869 people.

they forgot to mention that 21st ave is mainly hispanic especially colombians.......nearly all of the businesses are colombian for example.....milennium express, tierras colombianas, el tipico, metropan, banana king, colombia pan pizza, el tipico bar...etc

I know what a real neighborhood is like". I'm warning you, saying things like that in Paterson, could really get you hurt, trust me. Be careful with that comment. ^_~ I was checking around for an accurate population for Paterson, and it is nearly impossible. The city website says 172,000, but everywhere else is 150,000. I heard that Paterson has a large illegal population, therefore it is almost impossible to determine an accurate population count.

If that comment can get me hurt, then it proves my point with absolute certainty, doesn't it? In reality, I know it can't get me hurt, but merely the implied threat of violence over stating an opinion speaks volumes about the lack of character and respect too often found in Paterson. In short, all commentary should be removed.Scarletknight (talk) 20:54, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

The information in the neighborhoods section is sliding down a slippery slope of subjectivity. For instance, the Wrigley Park/4th Ward info about it being "crime-ridden" while People's Park is "vibrant" (does this descibe it economically? Socially?). See the Wrigley Park article -- this is now turning into a back and forth about why it is the only neighborhood being singled out for crime. I don't think we should ignore the problems of the 4th Ward and of Paterson as a whole, but at the same time I get the feeling that there is some home-hood boosterism going on. The entire Paterson article could do with some good sourcing, statistics and general organization. Alphae 18:29, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps the Paterson, NJ 'Neighborhoods' section should be deleted entirely. Many of the entries seem to be based on subjective opinion, and none cite sources or are verifiable - the two essential criteria for inclusion on Wikipedia. Some of the entries are (at least) verging on the racist, so until someone can rewrite the section with some academic rigour it should be deleted.--Evenmadderjon (talk) 17:00, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

demographics
if you see the demographics (races) match perfectly, but when you add latinos it isnt ok. here is some data i got from the web.

Latino 50.1% White 13.3% Black 32.9%


 * That's because the U.S. Census considers Hispanic/Latino an "ethnicity", separate from race. It's defined as "A person of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race." (emphasis added; don't know why Cuban is there twice but it's that way on the gov't website quoted)  See Race (United States Census). --Galaxiaad 08:32, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

The article's description of the racial breakdown is unclear. Does the statistic for "White" include just Non-Hispanic Whites or all Whites including Hispanic Whites?

The New neighborhood column in this article
Most of the information provided is incorrect and some of the correct info that was there before has been deleted. Some of the new content has simply been made up. I live in Paterson and ive never heard of some of the names the writer mantions. Examples: Little Lima & Little Arabia

Most of the original info has since been restored. --Javierbaires1 05:05, 9 February 2007 (UTC)Javierbaires1

History
This article doesnt make any references of the Lenape Native People or to Acquackanonk, which is what Paterson and much of the sorroundings in Berge,n Essex and Passaic Counties was one called by the native people before Europeans arrived. Also if one clicks on the link to Acquackanonk it routes you to the City of Passaic page. There should be a separate page for this former town or it should be explained that these cities are located in the region.

disambiguation page createdDjflem (talk) 18:52, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Sister Cities
Patersons sister cities are not mentioned and unknown to me.

Jose Torres.
Why is it that the boxer Jose Torres, is showing as the Mayor of Paterson? Cleary, this isn't the same Joey Torres. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 130.156.38.11 (talk) 16:02, 1 May 2007 (UTC).

famous patersonians
I believe Dr. Michael Zakim can fit the academic criteria as amongst many famous articles he also published the book: "Ready made democracy: A History of Man's dress in the American Republic, 1760-1860". A book which has put forth the idea of "clothing history" as an area of research of "real" history. I don't think he should be ommited.

Red Rocky (talk) 22:26, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Only City In NJ To Observe Muslim Holiday - Incorrect
Paterson is not the only city in New Jersey that observes Muslim holidays within its school system. The tiny town of Hillside in Union County has done so for several years and Newark Public Schools also incorporates the Eid within its calendar.

RosaRosa (talk) 14:39, 12 August 2008 (UTC)RosaRosa


 * Removed. Thanks. --ChrisRuvolo (t) 17:23, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

The philosopher Søren Kierkegaards brother
Søren Kierkegaard, the famous philosopher's brother, Niels Andreas Kierkegaard, was not and is not famous, but he did live his last days in Peterson and was buried there. For what it is worth :-) Source: http://tidsskrift.dk/visning.jsp?markup=&print=no&id=101178 (in Danish). The article says the burial ground disappeard in the sixties (the article's source for this information is local Patersons historian Vincent D. Waraske. Knutatle (talk) 14:11, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Image needs replacement - Downtown Paterson
Hello all...

An image used in the noted article, specifically Image:Downtown Paterson.JPG, has a little bit of a licensing issue. The image was uploaded back when the rules around image uploading were less restrictive. It is presumed that the uploader was willing to license the picture under the GFDL license but was not clear in that regard. As such, the image, while not at risk of deletion, is likely not clearly licensed to allow for free use in any future use of this article. If anyone has an image that can replace this, or can go take one and upload it, it would be best.

You have your mission, take your camera and start clicking.--Jordan 1972 (talk) 16:54, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

merge/consolidate/separate/disambiguate/link/address

 * Great Falls (Passaic River)
 * Old Great Falls Historic District
 * Great Falls of Paterson-Garrett Mountain
 * Garret Mountain Reservation
 * National Register of Historic Places listings in Passaic County, New Jersey mentions S.U.M. in listing
 * Paterson, New Jersey

The above articles, whilst focusing on a different aspect of the Falls do cover alot of the same material and do refer to each other. Is it actually necessary? It certainly is confusing and starts getting circuitous. Is there some way they can be consoldated? The distinction between the falls and the mountain are clear, though there may be some jurisdictional differences regarding the what is included in the various municpal, state and national designations. Thoughts?Djflem (talk) 18:32, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

History, 'Economy'
Readers will notice that the article has no section entitled 'Economy.' With good reason. Paterson became a manufacturing center because of the water power of the Passaic River. The momentum lasted into the first quarter of the 20th century, but not beyond this. Obviously, the water power became irrelevant long ago, but newer technologies were adapted. Textile manufacturing began moving south fr/ the Northeastern US in the late 19th century and never stopped. During the 1920's Paterson's mills were struck by some of the most contentious and violent labor strikes in the 20th century US. By 1930 Paterson's garment industry, its economic cornerstone was a shell. The city has been slowly dying ever since. It has no economic utility other than as a concentration of population. It does have good access to rail and motor transport, but no other positive indicators for economic growth. I know all this as a descendant of a Paterson family. Will someone with the knowledge to document all this please do so? Many thanks.

Tapered (talk) 05:29, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Material in need of sourcing
I'm moving the following unsourced material on notable residents here from the article until it can be properly sourced per WP:V/WP:NPOV/WP:CS, et a. Nightscream (talk) 01:41, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Adeva (born 1960), house music and R&B vocalist
 * Lawrence Barrett (1838–1891), actor, one of the leading American actors of the 19th century.
 * Just Blaze (born 1978), hip hop music producer
 * Bill Braun, auto racer
 * Johnny Briggs (born 1944), former Major League Baseball player
 * Eric Downing (born 1978), NFL player
 * Chauncey Hannibal (b. 1968) Singer w/ vocal group BLACKstreet.
 * Talmadge Hayer, aka Thomas Hagan, one of the men convicted for the assassination of Malcolm X
 * Garret A. Hobart (1844–1899), twenty-fourth Vice President of the United States
 * Michael Hossack (born 1946), drummer, member of the Doobie Brothers
 * Maxine Jones (born 1966), singer, member of En Vogue
 * Frank Lautenberg (born 1924), politician, currently represents New Jersey in the United States Senate
 * George Middleton (1880–1967), American playwright
 * Simon Perchik (born 1923), poet
 * Joseph D. Pistone (born 1939), aka Donnie Brasco, FBI agent and author who infiltrated the Bonanno crime family
 * Bucky Pizzarelli (born 1926), jazz guitarist
 * John Pizzarelli (born 1960), jazz guitarist and singer
 * Martin Pizzarelli - jazz double-bassist
 * Prince Randian (1871–1934), performer
 * George Rochberg (1918–2005), classical composer
 * Frankie Ruiz (1958–1998), salsa music singer
 * John Ryle (1817–1887), industrialist and capitalist, known as the "Father of the United States Silk Industry" starting the first silk mill in 1839
 * Mary Danforth Ryle (1833–1904), philanthropist who donated millions to various city institutions, notably the Danforth Memorial Library
 * John Spencer (1946–2005), actor, best known for his role as Leo McGarry, the White House Chief of Staff on the television drama ''The West Wing
 * J. Michael Straczynski (born 1954), science-fiction writer, creator and writer for Babylon 5
 * Albert Tangora (1903–1978), holder of the speed record for typing on a manual typewriter
 * Tim Thomas (born 1977), pro basketball player, currently on the Dallas Mavericks
 * Dante Tomaselli (born 1969), horror film screenwriter, director, and composer
 * Robert Torricelli (born 1951), politician, former representative of New Jersey in the United States Senate and United States House of Representatives
 * Elizabeth Vargas (born 1962), ABC news anchor
 * Jimmy Vivino (born 1955), musician, guitarist, member of The Max Weinberg 7
 * Darryl Watkins (born 1984), basketball player for Syracuse University
 * Bert Wheeler (1895–1968), of the comedy duo Wheeler & Woolsey

Source doesn't prove residency
Removed this from "Notable Residents", as the referenced article states where Alessa went to school, but not where he lived. Also visiting Paterson doesn't qualify for inclusion of Carlos Almonte, in my opinion.


 * Terrorism suspect Mohamed Mahmood Alessa attended ninth grade at the Al-Huda High School, a private Islamic religious high school in Paterson, New Jersey. Fellow suspect Carlos "Omar" Eduardo Almonte also visited a mosque in Paterson.

Sister city or similar
I would like to insert a paragraph on a street in my country dedicated to paterson. Also paterson also has a street dedicated to my country. is it possible? Montescaglioso (Italy)
 * Viale Paterson in Montescaglioso (ITALY)
 * Montescaglioso Street in Paterson

--Noodles83 (talk) 14:04, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Explanatory notes
There seems to be an excessive use of explanatory notes within the "references" section of this article. "Explanatory or content notes are used to add explanations, comments or other additional information relating to the main content but would make the text too long or awkward to read." (Help:Shortened_footnotes) Some of the explanatory notes would certainly add a richness to this article if they were instead written into the main text. Other explanatory notes in this article, however, seem a bit awkward and unnecessary, for example, #221 "Vargas, a woman in a field with so few Latinos, was born in Paterson, N.J., to a Puerto Rican U.S. Army captain and his Irish American wife." I'd appreciate the input of others as to whether this page needs some cleanup. Thanks. Richard Apple (talk) 01:01, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Explanatory notes are material that could have been included in the article, but was put into a note instead. What's in this reference you are pointing to is a brief quotation from the source to document the claim made in the associated source. These quotations are an integral part of all citation templates and used in articles throughout Wikipedia. The far bigger problem is editors who refuse to add sources of any kind when adding material to articles. Any suggestions on dealing with that problem? Alansohn (talk) 13:32, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your input, and I look forward to the opinions of other editors regarding the excessive use of explanatory notes in this article. To address your other concern about editors not sufficiently verifying their edits, there are fortunately a few very good tutorials regarding how to cite sources, such as Citing sources.  Also, experienced editors may place a  "citation needed" tag onto a section of an article they feel need additional referencing (eg. ), or they may simply find the missing source and add it to the article.  The article about Citation overkill is also worth reading.  While "off topic" from my original concern, I hope this helps. Richard Apple (talk) 14:25, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Again, I think you're confused both about what you erroneously call "explanatory notes" as well as Wikipedia policy regarding sourcing. All material added needs reliable and verifiable sourcing and your persistent violations of policy in this regard are problematic. Is the issue that you don't understand how to add sources (violating Citing sources) or is the problem that you simply refuse to add them (violating LISTPEOPLE? Alansohn (talk) 15:25, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Disability City
Paterson, NJ ranks the highest percentage of disabled persons per city of over 100,000 people. From citydata.com, here are the statistics of disabled persons in Paterson, NJ.

Poverty rate among disabled males: Paterson: 20.6%, New Jersey: 11.3%

Disability rate in this city among poor males (it is 29.7% among residents who are not classified as poor): Paterson: 31.8%, New Jersey: 11.3%

Poverty rate among disabled females: Paterson: 25.1%, New Jersey: 15.2%

Disability rate in this city among poor females (it is 29.0% among residents who are not classified as poor): Paterson: 31.8%, New Jersey: 15.2%

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/poverty/poverty-Paterson-New-Jersey.html#ixzz2y8prJZqj 71.102.1.95 (talk) 20:52, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Subjective Language
The introduction reads: "The city has since devolved into a cesspool, and a major destination for Hispanic emigrants as well as for immigrants from the Arab and Muslim world to steal businesses from natural-born Americans. It has the second-largest Muslim population in the United States." This unfortunately worded sentence concludes the introduction and weakens the improvements to the remainder of the article. I'm posting this because -- being a new editor -- I am unsure of how to fix this myself.

Denny1213 (talk) 23:28, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

I'm surprised that a city of nearly 150K doesn't have a weather reporting station
I see some cities with climate and weather boxes that have less than 10K population — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.162.40.216 (talk) 14:48, 30 April 2015 (UTC)

Contested deletion
Nominated by a vandal. Will take care of that. Magnolia677 (talk) 23:42, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

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Paterson Police Department (New Jersey)
I have created a new page. I am impressed by how little the department has online. Can anyone here help? &#39;&#39;Paul, in Saudi&#39;&#39; (talk) 06:50, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Paterson, New Jersey
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Paterson, New Jersey's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Council": From Clifton, New Jersey: City Council, City of Clifton. Accessed March 26, 2020. From Fair Lawn, New Jersey: Mayor and Council, Borough of Fair Lawn. Accessed March 25, 2020. 

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 12:39, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Is it SUM or SEUM?
Hamilton himself presided over the first stock offering of the Society for Establishing Useful Manufactures (SEUM), a project that won enthusiastic backing from financiers in New York and New Jersey.

Rappleye, Charles. Sons of Providence: The Brown Brothers, the Slave Trade, and the American Revolution (p. 291). Simon & Schuster. Kindle Edition. WithGLEE (talk) 11:26, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

Inserted better map
Greetings Wikipedians! In the map that was here previously, Paterson just a tiny dark patch with no label. I'm from northern NJ myself and it puzzled me. I had to stare at it for a while before I could find Paterson. I have substituted what I think is an easier-to-read image map (source: Wikimedia Commons) that clearly identifies Paterson with a big label and shows its location in relation to other northern NJ cities and New York. Cordially, BuzzWeiser196 (talk) 12:05, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
 * , the map does have its benefits, but the edit you made also removed other maps, including a fully zoomable map that provides details unavailable on the map you added. Was there a reason that the other maps were removed? Alansohn (talk) 13:11, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
 * @User:Alansohn: Apologies, I only intended to delete the "interactive map" mentioned above. (By the way, I couldn't get the zoom feature to work.) Shall I attempt to restore the others that I inadvertently omitted, or would you prefer to do it? BuzzWeiser196 (talk) 14:39, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
 * @User:Alansohn: I believe I've restored all the maps except for the "interactive map." BuzzWeiser196 (talk) 11:15, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Deletion
With all respect to the awesome editor who deleted this, and is perhaps the best here on WP, I think this deletion was misplaced. The reason is that we in our short (somewhat longer in NJ notable persons lists) descriptions of notable person as a rule indicate why they are notable. Sometimes we even expand upon it, again in NJ articles, in the footnotes. This fellow is notable not simply because he was a fencer. But for the information deleted in this deletion. I would urge AS to reconsider, and revert. Thanks for his consideration. 2603:7000:2101:AA00:29A2:F27D:D6CD:6647 (talk) 19:36, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Thoughts? 2603:7000:2101:AA00:ACC5:90EF:2806:5A6A (talk) 21:52, 27 October 2023 (UTC)