Talk:Patxi's Chicago Pizza/Archive 1

History
I've emailed the company and ask them to provide (or preferably publish) more information about the history of the company. Ol Yeller '''Talktome 18:32, 20 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I've received an extensive email from a VP of the company that I'll be going through and adding information from in the next few days. Ol Yeller  '''Talktome 20:27, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Projects
I'm not sure if this article would be in Chicago based projects or San Francisco based projects. It started in Chicago but seems to have recently closed there and all current locations are in or near SF. Ol Yeller '''Talktome 18:38, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Speedy Deletion
To Tony and any patrolling admins, I think the number of references alone would constitute a claim of notability that, at the very least, need to be evaluated by AfD. Just my opinion though. I should note that I'm the author so I won't remove the db. Ol Yeller '''Talktome 20:19, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

TechCrunch Reference
I think it's absurd to claim that the reference doesn't imply that the resturaunt recieved a positive review. If the problem is that the TechCrunch article points to a study, then feel free to cut out the TechCrunch link between WP and the study. If you're going to argue that the study isn't reliable, I'd simply point out that the study was done by Dr. David Ayman Shamma, a Research Scientest for Yahoo! Research. He has published several studies, holds a B.S./M.S. from the Institute for Human and Machine Cognition at The University of West Florida, a Ph.D. in Computer Science from the Intelligent Information Laboratory at Northwestern University, and was previously a research scientist for the Center for Mars Exploration at NASA Ames Research Center. If that's not reliable, I don't know what is. Ol Yeller '''Talktome 09:57, 31 December 2010 (UTC)


 * To anyone who hasn't read the article I'll summarize its findings. Shamma created metrics and conducted a double blind study to determine through empirical data which Chicago style pizza was the best.  Patxi's average score was higher than the highest score received by the second place pizza brand.  Ol Yeller  '''Talktome 10:02, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

The TechCrunch article mentions Patxi's precisely once, in quoting a list of local places from which pizzas were ordered: "Little Star, Patxi’s, and Zachary’s". There is no appraisal in the article of the quality of the pizzas; on the contrary, the article states: "Which pizza won? Who cares?", and goes on to characterize Chicago-style pizza in general as "slop". The article title calls this "Massive Geek Eating Binge", and if this was not clear enough, its url contains the phrase huge-effing-nerds-pizza. Not something that evidently counts as support for the statement "The pizzeria has received positive reviews from several sources."

The article links to the lambasted study, which was done by Dr. David Ayman Shamma, a Research Scientist for Yahoo! Research who has published Several Studies, holds a B.S./M.S. from the Institute for Human and Machine Cognition at The University of West Florida, a Ph.D. in Computer Science from the Intelligent Information Laboratory at Northwestern University, and was previously a Research Scientist for the Center for Mars Exploration at NASA Ames Research Center. That clearly qualifies the author as an expert in terrestrial and extraterrestrial pizzalology, and thus a qualified culinary reviewer whose emanations on his personal blog are so obviously reliable that they do not require editorial quality control. I wish there was a way we could bypass the policy, so unduly restrictive in this case, that requires sources not to be self-published. (Insert irony punctuation here.) --Lambiam 13:52, 31 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Alright, I'm starting to think you've taken this case a little personally. You !voted delete in the AfD which failed.  You then ran to at least on admin about it who suggested you go take it up in WP:N which you did.  When it started becoming clear that not everyone agrees with you completely, you come here to try to pick the references apart.  You can argue the language in the article all you want but check the method, it's sound although I realize that your background may not be in statistics and research.  So rather than come here and show everyone how you've taken personal offense by linking every other word in a paragraph, facetiously making up words, and making a joke about "irony punctuation", why don't you invite others to the discussion?  I think it's clear that you've made up your mind on the subject long before our discussion began and that I'm not going to change your mind so we're essentially wasting our time.
 * To make my point more clear if I can, I never said he was an expert in "pizzalology" (by the way, if you meant to put the extra L in there for 'lology', that's pretty creative). I said that he is an expert in doing studies, which he did, and his study showed that Patxi's was the best.  Not only the best, but the best by far which would, at least to me, be important when discussing how good the subject's prooduct is perceived to be.
 * I think you're onto something about restaurant reviews not always implying notability but by picking a case to compare it to and use in the discussion in WP:N to try to and prove your point, I think you may have skewed your own opinion and the opinion of others. It may not be the most pressing issue on WP but I think it's important to come to a conclusion about a guideline regarding restaurant reviews and I'm not sure that us arguing over the validity of a study is the best way to spend out time. Ol Yeller  '''Talktome 22:36, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
 * What are you talking about? What admin did I run too? Are you making this up? The idea of taking this up at Wikipedia talk:Notability was entirely mine. I worked professionally in statistics and research, but what does that have to do with anything? If a reference is given in support of a claim in an article, but it does not at all state that which is claimed in the article, something is wrong. You suggested replacing the link to the TechCrunch article by the link to the blog. So why don't you do that yourself? I'm not going to do that, because a personal blog is not a reliable source, period. --Lambiam 23:11, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Contested deletion
The person who placed the db tag (SallySE) may not have noticed that db tag was changed to a prod by another user. As it was simply prodded, I declined the prod (which I'm allowed to do). SallySE feels that it's important to run this through CSD so I'll let a patrolling admin take a look and see that not only did someone else decline the CSD, the article has established notability. Furthermore, I believe I'm being hounded but I'll take that up in an SPI. Ol Yeller '''Talktome 21:49, 27 June 2011 (UTC)