Talk:Paudash Lake

Untitled
The following factors have been given serious consideration:

(a) Canada’s 3 million lakes represent 60% of the total of all the lakes in the world. (b) The premier recreational lake country in Canada, and indeed the world, is that of southern Ontario, with its 10,000 pristine glacial lakes. (c) This is currently the only lake article, above the start level, which covers a southern Ontario lake. This alone makes it important to the Project (d) This article is comprehensive in its description of what is a typical southern Ontario lake, as well as the surrounding southern Ontario lake country, and is very well written. Lake Central (talk) 06:33, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism Notice as of December 21, 2008
'''To all of the many fine editors of the Paudash Lake site, I regret to note that this site was trashed on December 20th, 2008 by a wholly irresponsible individual. The so-called rationale set forth for the vandalism was, of course, preposterous. The site has been restored, however, we are dealing with a malicious individual who my strike again. Should you find this site has been trashed, please revert the site to Lake Central, as of Dec. 22, 2008. This individual has been sent the following notice:'''

I have received your message attempting to justify your behavior on the basis that “it is not acceptable to use words such as "spectacular" and "fabulous" and "beautiful" in a Wikipedia article”. Let us examine this interesting statement as regards geographic articles like Paudash Lake, shall we?

Turning first to our worldwide Wikipedia Headquarters in San Francisco, we note in the Wikipedia article on the city (which is rated as a Featured Article), the word “fabulous” in the fourth paragraph. This is followed in the article by such words as “splendorous”, “ostentatious”, “flamboyant”, “grandeur”, “zany”, and the ever popular “legendary”, as applied to a rather sleazy rock promoter. As regards commercial promotion, there is the comment that “the decision by Virgin America to base its operations out of SFO reverses the trend of low-cost carriers opting to bypass SFO”.

Moving down the pike a bit from Headquaters, we now turn to the Wikipedia article on Yosemite National Park, which is also rated as a Featured Article. Here, in the very first paragraph, we find the word “spectacular” Furthermore, this is not the only time the word is used in the article. There is, of course a nice commerical promo that states “The park concession contract is now operated by Delaware North Companies "Parks and Resorts" (the official concessionaire name in DNC Parks and Resorts at Yosemite, Inc.).

Let me remind you that a “Featured Article”, our highest rating, is one which has “been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community". Oh, and do you recall that the San Francisco Wikipedia community founded Wikipedia and continues to run the organization and its computer servers? But then, again, perhaps you don’t think to much of our American cousins. Perhaps you are like your Hamilton and south shore area politicians such as Sheila Copps and Carolyn Perrish whose ghastly public comments on Americans are not something that I would wish to repeat on a Wikipedia site.

So then, let us turn to a Canadian Wikipedia article on a site in your area which is rated as a “Selected Article” on the Canadian Portal, is a “Featured Article” in Europe, and a former “Featured Article” in North America. The article is on Niagara Falls and most certainly contains the word “spectacular”. It contain “spectacular” more than once, as well as a lot of "beauty" comments, such as “renowned both for their beauty”. Frankly, the commercial promo plugs in the article are simply too numerous to mention!

During 2008, Paudash Lake was one of Wikipedia’s most successful sites. As you either know, or should know, for several months during the year, the site set the record for the number of diffenent collaborators who edited the site. Now, you have used the excuse that “it is not acceptable to use words such as "spectacular" and "fabulous" and "beautiful" in a Wikipedia article”, to justify your trashing of this site which so many Wikipedians worked on during the last year. You, madam, are either a liar, a fool, or both.. Your disgusting, malicious, behavior is what is unacceptable. Lake Central (talk) 04:05, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Please see Neutral point of view/Noticeboard. ...  disco spinster   talk  04:23, 22 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Your accusation against disco spinster  is wholely without foundation and violates WP:AGF and seems to constitute a personal attack. Her edits were clearly good faith edits which were made with legitimate justification to conform the article to NPOV standards. They did not change the article in any substantive way in regards to information. Be cautioned that your attempts to prevent her from making good faith edits might be viewed as an intimidation tactic, and get you in some hot water for WP:Own at least. 72.11.124.226 (talk) 21:33, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Most of the adjectives from other articles that the incredibly proud Paudash Lake article contributer quotes are quite justifiable in those particular articles. Yes, the writers of the San Francisco article use some superlatives, but they happen to be describing things like the city's world-renowned architecture which, unlike Paudash Lake, is actually world-renowned. Architects and other experts from around the world will not hesitate to tell people of the fine cityscape in San Francisco. This is widely regarded as fact.

This is an excerp from the Paudash Lake article:

''The world is, of course, familiar with the incredible fall colours of Ontario, Quebec, and northern New England. In Ontario, it is the general consensus that the most fantastic fall colours are centered in, and around, the junction of Highways 28 and 118. In other words, the area of Paudash Lake! The fall colour usually peaks during the first week in October. To sit quietly in a boat in the middle of North Bay at this time of year, leaves one to believe that they have departed planet Earth. The brilliant golds, reds, and oranges are, quite literally, unearthly! One can only recall the title of one of Heinlein's great novels, "The Green Hills of Earth". Do not look for them in Haliburton at this time of the year!''

Remember that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. Would you read something like this in Britannica? By saying that it is the general concensus in Ontario that this is where the most fantastic colours are centered in without any citation or evidence, you have single handedly destroyed any chance of crediblity for this article. And I won't even mention the incredibly informal and colloquial nature of the grammar (exclamation marks?). The article is also way to long and could be cut to about one quarter the size it is now. Most of the information is so general that it could be found in other articles (e.g. the Wildlife chapter, "Woods at the End of the World"). There is also the text under the picture of the native fishermen holding beers that says "Natives with traditional drink". I find that somewhat offensive.

I wasn't going to discuss this article because there were far too many errors to discuss yet when I saw that completely unjustified vandalism notice I was outraged. I understand that you are very passionate about this Lake and the surrounding area, but you and the other contributors have made this page into an advertisment for the Haliburton Chamber of Commerce. This is unacceptable. Even more unacceptable is the slandering of a wikipedia contributor who wishes to verify your outrageous claims and make the article suitable for this website. This article does not deserve to be viewed and should be completely revamped in a more balanced and informative way.

Jkentrandall (talk) 15:01, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

It is very clear that the article is not really about Paudash Lake itself, but about a typical lake in the incredible southern Ontario lake country and, in particular, the heart of that lake country, Muskoka and Haliburton. You state that this is something on behalf of the Haliburton Chamber of Commerce? Are you entirely insane? This is like saying that Palm Beach needs a public relations firm. I will give you a residents list of just one lake, and I will not name the lake because people deserve their privacy, and remember there are over 600 lakes in Haliburton and even more in Muskoka: Tom Hanks, Steven Spielberg, Eddie and Alex Van Halen, Goldie Hawn, Kurt Russell, Martin Short, Nancy Dolman. This is only one lake, my friend! I happen to be a native of San Francisco, and it is unnecessary to attempt to glamorize the city to me, any more than it is unnecessary to attempt to glamorize the doomed Lake Tahoe. Why do you think Steven Spielburg spends his summers in Ontario, do you believe that it is closer than Tahoe, which is a mere 3800 miles away from Ontario? You have to get a grip, my friend, and try to get in the game! You really do not know where its all happening, do you? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.198.12.3 (talk) 07:39, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
 * What, precisely, does all that have to do with the article under discussion? ...  disco spinster   talk  22:11, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Removed a lot of text
I removed a lot of text from this article, in an attempt to get it closer to what is appropriate for the topic, omitting details that were not supported by references that probably do not belong in this article even if they were referenced, and information that is not about the lake but rather about the Muskoka/Haliburton region or the woodland which surrounds the lake. The remaining article is still largely unsupported by references, and I am sure the article could be improved by taking away more. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Langhorner (talk • contribs) 17:04, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism
The many constructive editors of this article have made interesting additions and have corrected typos. The article contains background on the lake’s general area (Muskoka and Haliburton), because no other article has done so.

This is a WikiProject Lakes article. If you have something constructive to contribute to the Project, I suggest you do so. In the meantime, you are nothing but a vandal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.198.12.3 (talk) 15:21, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Please respond to my comments rather than attacking me personally, and try to assume good faith. I am trying to contribute to wikipedia by bringing this article closer to what it should be:  written from a neutral point of view, including only information about the article topic and not information that belongs in other articles, and supported by references.  A vandal would probably edit without signing in and would not invite discussion on this talk page.  Any editor, whether or not a member of WikiProject Lakes, is permitted to edit the article, and this article is subject to the same rules for verifiability and  references as any other article.  There are no references for what I removed, and it would be surprising if anyone could find references for it because most of the details are trivia not directly related to the article topic.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Langhorner (talk • contribs) 16:17, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
 * We've been through this before, and since the last time, the policies of Wikipedia have not changed. Articles must be written in a neutral point of view, and claims must be verified by reliable sources.  Please see this entry in the Wikipedia NPOV Noticeboard for the previous discussion.  ...  disco spinster   talk  19:56, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Environmental Considerations
The information about cobalt contamination is referenced by a reliable source, unlike most of this section, so I have restored it. Please explain why it should be removed here so we can arrive at a consensus before removing it again.Langhorner (talk) 22:43, 13 February 2012 (UTC)