Talk:Paul Andrew (designer)

Edit request
{{edit COI|d|{see below]}}

Change this sentence:

In February 2019, Andrew was named Creative Director of both men’s and women’s categories at Salvatore Ferragamo after having served as Women’s Creative Director since October 2017.

to:

In February 2019, Andrew was named Creative Director of both men’s and women’s categories at Salvatore Ferragamo after having served as Women’s Creative Director since October 2017 and consequently elected to shutter his eponymous shoe brand. After leaving Ferragamo in May 2021, Andrew relaunched his namesake brand in February 2022.

Sources:
 * https://www.vogue.com/article/paul-andrew-reveals-his-comenback-collection
 * https://www.businessoffashion.com/news/entrepreneurship/paul-andrew-relaunches-namesake-brand/

Jennifercoxpr (talk) 19:55, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
 * What does " elected to shutter his eponymous shoe brand' mean please? Theroadislong (talk) 20:15, 26 April 2022 (UTC)


 * What can I say about this article (as it is and/or the proposed changes)?
 * My first impression is that it should be a total rewrite. All you really want to add after his 5 years at Ferragamo is that he had his own shoe line?


 * This article needs to avoid coming across as a self-serving promotional article. Maybe that's why I note how little is said about his contributions at Ferragamo. Some of the citations come across as little more than disguised press releases.  Though it may be quite desirable  to have citations to more or less general circulation publications, announcements of a fabulous new designer footwear line may not be suitable for inclusion.
 * Additionally, not because I'm objecting to the commercial nature of this activity, I have the impression that this seems to mostly avoid historical perspective, when there's a fair amount of history. What were his contributions at Ferragamo?
 * If I seem to be too negative, I apologize, but you have presented us with a difficult product (i.e. the existing wikipedia article). Perhaps it's a personal thing on my part, but I find myself annoyed by the use of eponymous.  While this may be popular verbiage in the "style and fashion" field, it's both a roundabout way of stating something as well as being vague and ambiguous.
 * So I will emphasize, don't be afraid to rewrite this from scratch, try to focus on major points over the course of his career and avoid trying to enumerate every seemingly significant event. Finally, don't be put off by my attitude... my comments have no official significance, I have no special role, and I won't be surprised if somebody comes along and totally disparages my comments.  My counter is that I'm hoping to motivate you to present us with an article that's more suitable for continued inclusion in Wikipedia. Fabrickator (talk) 05:07, 27 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Just a reminder, if you're going to do a substantial edit, you can do it in your sandbox (or for that matter, in any subpage under your user page). Fabrickator (talk) 08:17, 27 April 2022 (UTC)


 * This edit request is for an entry that was subsequently deleted for being unreferenced. No response from the original requestor to revised the edit request in 7 months....Declined Duke Gilmore (talk) 16:42, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Resolving the COI Tag
Hi there,

In January 2017, Toddst1 added a “COI” tag to this page. No doubt, that was because earlier that day, a user with the account name of “PaulAndrew” tried to edit this page directly.

Similarly, in February 2022, Paul’s P.R. rep, “Jennifercoxpr,” tried to edit this page directly, both under her own account and anonymously.

Paul and Jennifer apologize for their actions, and Paul has hired me to help him navigate Wikipedia in line with our COI rules. To that end, I’ve disclosed my conflict on the “Talk” pages for both him and myself, and I’ve reviewed the list of changes he’d like to make.

I’ve narrowed down these requests to those that I think will most benefit our readers (#3 in the list below), and I’ve added a few that remove possible NPOV violations (#1). I’ve also proposed fixing broken links (#2) and reformatting the “awards” section (#4).

Finally, I’m hereby pinging Fabrickator and Duke Gilmore since they previously addressed the requests from Jennifercoxpr.

Thank you for your consideration.

Signed, BlueRoses13 (talk) 19:33, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

1. NPOV Concerns
Will removing the following 3 sentences suffice to remove concerns about NPOV — and thus to remove the COI tag?

a. This sentence from the “career” section:

Paul Andrew shoes have been worn by Lupita Nyong'o, Emma Watson, and Jessica Chastain and Emmy Rossum.

b. This sentence from the “awards” section:

In 2013, Paul Andrew was awarded the "Launch of the Year" by Footwear News, and was awarded "Accessories Design of the Year" for the 2013 edition of "Who is on Next?"

c. This sentence from the “awards” section:

In March 2015, Paul Andrew was nominated for a CFDA Swarovski Award for Accessory Design.

2. Better Footnotes
a. The “awards” section says this:

In November 2014, he won the 11th annual Council of Fashion Designers of America/Vogue Fashion Fund,

The footnote here is broken. Here’s a working one, from the New York Times: “CFDA/Vogue Fashion Fund Picks Paul Andrew as Winner” (2014):

In November 2014, he won the 11th annual Council of Fashion Designers of America/Vogue Fashion Fund,

b. The “awards” section says this:

In August 2016, Paul Andrew's debut men's collection received an ACE Award for Brand Launch of the Year.

The footnote here is broken. Here’s a working one, from Footwear News: “Sarah Jessica Parker & Paul Andrew Win Big At 2016 ACE Awards” (2016):

In August 2016, Paul Andrew's debut men's collection received an ACE Award for Brand Launch of the Year.

3. Ferragamo Years
It seems odd that the past 6 years of Andrew’s career — where he did award-winning work for one of the most recognizable luxury-good companies — are missing from his Wikipedia page. Can we therefore add the following 3 sentences to the “career” section? Each claim is sourced to a news outlet.

In 2016, Andrew was named the director of women’s footwear design at Salvatore Ferragamo. In 2019, after being named creative director at Salvatore Ferragamo, he closed his eponymous shoe brand. After leaving Ferragamo in 2021, Andrew relaunched his eponymous footwear line in 2022.

4. Awards Section
For easier readability, does it make sense to turn the “awards” section into a list, or even a table? This reformatting would also remove the repetition of “Paul Andrew” in almost every sentence here, and simplify the dates from month and year to just year. Here's a suggested table:

Response from Toddst1
You're kidding, right? TL;DR. Maybe suggest a change, vs a list of all these specific changes. You're getting paid for this, but we don't work for you.

I've WP:BOLDly invoked WP:TNT on the career section as an opportunity to move forward. Perhaps you could draft something in your sandbox. I don't think any of those awards seem particularly notable. Toddst1 (talk) 01:35, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

Response to Toddst1
CAREER. I agree that the "career" section was problematic; hence the specific tweaks I suggested to improve it. :) So as not to come across as overbearing, I tried to use a scalpel rather than dynamite.

As you requested, I've drafted a new "career" section, which uses a neutral tone, sticks only to the facts that Wikipedia's readers will care about most, and cites reliable sources. Please take a look:

In his early career, Andrew worked with designers such as Narciso Rodriguez, Calvin Klein, and Alexander McQueen. He then spent 10 years working for Donna Karan.

In 2012, Andrew launched his eponymous women's shoe brand.

In 2016, he was named the director of women's footwear design at Salvatore Ferragamo. In 2019, he became the company's creative director.

In 2021, Andrew left Ferragamo, and in 2022, he relaunched his own footwear line.

AWARDS. As for the “awards” section, as it happens, I too employed WP:BOLD; please see the table I proposed last week. It consists of the four most notable awards, as determined by media coverage.

COI. Finally, in light of my disclosure and your edits, is it appropriate to now remove the COI tag?

Thank you for your consideration.

Signed, BlueRoses13 (talk) 18:54, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: Could you clarify exactly which edits you are still requesting? The article has changed significantly since you opened this request. Actualcpscm (talk) 22:23, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi there, Sure thing; I just clarified in a new COI request. Many thanks. Signed, BlueRoses13 (talk) 21:11, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Reopening 3 COI Requests (Per Actualcpscm)
Actualcpscm Thanks for your question. Here are the 3 requests that are outstanding. (Kindly note: I submitted the original request on Jan. 24. and these revised requests, per Toddst1, on Mar. 19.) Thanks for your consideration.

1. COI Tag
In light of my disclosure and subsequent edits from you (Actualcpsm) and Toddst1, is it appropriate to now remove the COI tag?

2. Career
At Todd’s request, I drafted a new "career" section, which uses a neutral tone, sticks only to the facts that Wikipedia's readers will care about most, and cites reliable sources. Please take a look:

In his early career, Andrew worked with designers such as Narciso Rodriguez, Calvin Klein, and Alexander McQueen. He then spent 10 years working for Donna Karan.

In 2012, Andrew launched his eponymous women's shoe brand.

In 2016, he was named the director of women's footwear design at Salvatore Ferragamo. In 2019, he became the company's creative director.

In 2021, Andrew left Ferragamo, and in 2022, he relaunched his own footwear line.

3. Awards
For easier readability, does it make sense to turn the various “awards” into a list, or even a table? This reformatting would also remove the repetition of “Paul Andrew” and simplify the dates from month and year to just year. Here's a suggested table:

Signed, BlueRoses13 (talk) 21:08, 21 March 2023 (UTC)


 * Pictogram voting keep.svg Go ahead: I have reviewed these proposed changes and suggest that you go ahead and make the proposed changes to the page. I'll remove the COI tag. Thanks for your patience with this request. To ensure clarity in the edit history, please be sure to mention your COI in your edit summary, as well as the fact that this edit was approved with a relevant revision ID. Something like this: "COI editor, received go-ahead from Actualcpscm at 12345678. Changing: XYZ." Happy editing! Actualcpscm (talk) 11:35, 9 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much! Done. I separated the "career" edit from the "awards" edit, and I included my COI and the revision ID in both edit summaries. Best, BlueRoses13 (talk) 11:53, 10 May 2023 (UTC)