Talk:Paul Collingwood

GA then FA
This article is now going to be subject to a concerted drive to take it to Good Article and then Featured Article status. As such, in the next few days the content will change significantly; firstly all WP:OR will be tagged to assist editors in finding citations. Let's do it.


 * Thank you guys!! I am more than willing to help to make my fave player's entry the best!


 * On reflection, given the backlog at GA, we might as well go straight for FA. That was the idea anyway. --Dweller 10:15, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

FA project
Thanks to all the collaborators on this. Some tasks / questions:

That'll do for now. --Dweller 22:48, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Replace all of the citation requests with citations, or amend/delete the text
 * Twelve citations left, I think...  The Rambling Man 18:12, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Copy edit whole article
 * Add more information about his Durham career
 * Insert some more personal qualities type quotes from Wisden / Cricinfo / BBC etc
 * Found at  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dweller (talk • contribs)
 * Does the Ashes summer of 2005 deserve its own section?
 * Should Warne's barracking move to the 2006/7 Ashes section?
 * Yes, yes, unequivocally yes. Fits chronologically too.
 * Should we continue to list all of the Man of the match performances?
 * I've tablified it - it looks a damned sight better (IMHO) but what does anyone else think? The Rambling Man 11:58, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Check lead section fits WP:LEAD
 * Now right length, but does anyone think the vital content is all there or some things shouldn't be there? --Dweller 10:16, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Groan now, but format all footnotes per WP:FOOTNOTE
 * As usual, Mr Footnotes has visited and hopefully we're done here. Let's continue to use the citeweb template and place all new footnotes correctly! The Rambling Man 11:54, 16 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Collingwood has had an occasional column on the [www.bbc.co.uk/cricket BBC Cricket] website since October 2005. It's not visible at present, but the BBC tends to be pretty good at archiving so if it can be found it could be a good source of information. HornetMike 16:01, 16 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Great - I'll check that. --Dweller 10:16, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Copyright?
Much of this page seems to be a poorly disguised copyvio of, which we even use as a reference for the article. I don't really know the ins and outs of copyright law, but I think that some rewording might be in order, just to distance the two articles. →Ollie (talk • contribs) 18:48, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the more I use it as a reference, the more I think you're right. The author of the original article clearly used this as his primary source.  Reword away, I'll join you.  The Rambling Man 18:56, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

ALoan comments
I have left some comments in the text. Obviously the Template:Fls need fixing. The "Early and personal life" piece is rather brief - parents? siblings? Did he play school or club cricket? The "caught sub" thing would be nice to include, if we can find a reference. A brief mention of the 3rd and 4th Tests in Australia in 2007 would be good, as it currently leaps from the 2nd to the 5th. Done that The Rambling Man 08:52, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

And I would swap the World Cup infoboxes for categories - did he actually play in 2003? Otherwise, very nice. -- ALoan (Talk) 13:55, 20 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Re parents etc, looks like nobody is reading my comments :-) Tintin 09:06, 21 February 2007 (UTC)


 * No, I read em. They were great - just not had time to add it yet. --Dweller 09:09, 21 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm going to add some personal life details.
 * What do people think about the caught sub thing. I think it's too hard to reference properly and is a very minor achievement for someone with an Ashes double hundred to his name.
 * Other than that, what's outstanding, before it is nommed? --Dweller 11:09, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Not a lot. Do the personal details and nom it.  I agree about the 'caught sub' thing, impossible to cite nicely so keep it commented out for now.  The Rambling Man 11:11, 21 February 2007 (UTC)


 * What is the exact data that you are looking for re. sub-catches ? Tintin 11:35, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Well one solution (albeit not that elegant) would be to find scorecards with "caught sub" which are clearly Colly's work. Get two or three of them and I think the claim is sufficiently cited.  Otherwise, a quote to the effect he made many sub catches would work too.  The Rambling Man 11:39, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Even cited, I'd maintain they're no longer notable in the context of his career. If he'd taken the winning catch in a massive match, (like a World Cup final) maybe... --Dweller 11:48, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * What about that link about near-WR of sub-catches ? Tintin 11:51, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Which link? Anyway, what's a "near" WR, lol --Dweller 12:36, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * *Sob* Nobody reads my comments. Tintin 12:48, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I might be missing something, but that link just goes to the Durham CCC index page... The Rambling Man 12:55, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Still works fine for me. It is dated 18 Feb 2005 and reads :

Paul Collingwood closes in on World Record!

Durham CCC`s Paul Collingwood needs to take just one more catch as an England substitute to equal the world record! Paul has whizzed past the UK record, which was previously 3, and now needs just one more catch to go level with India`s W V Raman who has taken 7 catches as a substitute. If Paul keeps going at his present rate it shouldn`t take long!

If you`re interested in finding out more about what cricket lovers do in winter why not join the Durham and North East branch of the Cricket Society? The DNECS, whose journal kindly sourced the information about Paul`s close proximity to the record, meet once a month in the off-season giving cricket enthusiasts the perfect opportunity to keep up to date with events over the winter.

The next meeting, which author Stephen Chalke is attending, is being held on Thursday 3 March at Durham County Cricket Club (Member`s Lounge), 7 for 7.30pm.

The Cricket Society`s Annual Dinner is being held on Thursday 7th April at the Riverside.

For more details please contact Ian Jackson via e-mail, (rm email) Tintin 12:57, 21 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Weird, that link still takes me to the index. Oh well.  Interesting reading, but if I can't get to the citation from IE7 (at work) perhaps others will have problems with it.  But this info should be available elsewhere.... surely?!  The Rambling Man 13:05, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

In a sport of obscure records, that one's very very obscure, lol. We've finished the peer review comments and I'm off to nom this for FA. We can still add this in at any point. --Dweller 13:15, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Batting graphs
It's great to see that this article is (hopefully) heading towards FA status! User:Oliver Brown was kind enough to ask me to create some of my batting graphs, so here they are. I've done both Test and ODI graphs. I'll leave it to the regular editors here to decide where they should go in the article. Of course, if you have any suggestions for changes please contact me. Raven4x4x 23:43, 20 February 2007 (UTC)






 * Wow. Phenomenal... thanks. --Dweller 09:09, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

AutoPR
The results of the requested automated review (I removed the non-relevant parts):

You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, AZ t 23:55, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Per Wikipedia:Context and Build the web, years with full dates should be linked; for example, link January 15, 2006.[?]
 * Done The Rambling Man 11:01, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Please check through the article for possible misspellings (see WP:SPELL). Examples of possible misspellings include: betwen (between).
 * Done The Rambling Man 11:01, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.[?]
 * Done by User:ALoan --Dweller 11:07, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Graphs / Tables
I've added the graph above and a table breaking down performance versus countries for ODIs. I plan to add something similar for Test matches also. I'm not particularly happy with the section title or the layout - if anyone can improve either, then please do! →Ollie (talk • contribs) 02:12, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Good FA drive
Great work to all involved. User:Dweller is about to nom it for FA, it's undergone 288 edits in the past 5.5 days. Amazing what you can do when you put your mind to it. The Rambling Man 13:18, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

"allround" [sic]
The "allround ..." quote in the lead section jumps out at me as "allround" is not a word. I note, however, that it exactly as per the cited reference. I see that a lot of work has been in progress on this article recently, so I have not been bold in making a change. Indeed, the consensus may be that it is fine as it is. Mcpgv 16:40, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Allround, all-round or all-rounder are terms all frequently used within the scope of cricket. The first instance of the use of the phrase is wikilinked in order to help people unfamiliar with the term and its context within the article, so hopefully that should suffice.  However, we're conscious that the article is written as to be accessible to the non-cricket aficionado so any suggestions you have to improve the article in this sense would be gratefully received.  The Rambling Man 17:29, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with you almost entirely, however I do feel that "allround" is incorrect - it should be "all-round" or "all round". The Collins Concise English Dictionary (admittedly my old, battered 1987 copy!) has it as "all-round"/"all-rounder", and I don't see many other "allround"s in a Wikipedia search - those that do appear in the first page of results mostly don't relate to articles about English things/people.  The first wikilinked version in this article is indeed "all-rounder", and the linked definition exclusively uses "all-rounder".  I was more wondering how best to get round the issue of the cited reference using "allround" (i.e. whether to "correct" it, or use a "[sic]" or something else), particularly bearing in mind it is in the article lead.  Mcpgv 18:09, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I'd be fine with a "[sic]". --Dweller 18:57, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Done. The Rambling Man 19:01, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
 * With or without the [sic], I think it looks ugly - surely we can find a better quote that says much the same? Especially in the article lead... Gavinio 23:50, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Jack Ryder Medal
Cited my many commentators as being pivotal in Paul's career (and symptomatic of the 'grit' as they tend to say) was his time spent in Australia playing grade cricket in 2000-2001. The first reference I found to this was at his  cricinfo profile, but I've often heard it mentioned, including by a few Aussie mates, as to why he gets a grudging respect from them - he's been over there and done it. He won the Jack Ryder medal for best player in a season. I mention this because I think it's important enough in the context of his career in terms of a) some interesting detail, b) the achievement c) How important he sees it in his career and d) context and emphasising the kind of guy that Colly is. Any thoughts?

It looks like he played for Richmond Cricket Club as cited in this BBC Article. This time last year the Durham all-rounder was playing grade cricket in Melbourne, hoping to build on five promising yet unfulfilling years in county cricket. [...] "It's all about training the brain. Believe in yourself and be confident you deserve to be on that international stage," he says.

"I used to think I was good psychologically, but after Australia last year, I knew I had to lift my game by 30 per cent if I was going to build on five mediocre years at Durham.

"My first-class career average with the bat was only 26 and with a wicket every 22 overs, I needed a neck brace to track where the ball was being hit off me sometimes."

Collingwood came back from playing for Richmond in Melbourne with an award that underlined his progress.

He shared the Jack Ryder award, handed out by the grade umpires for the best performances week in,week out. So he was at last hinting at consistency.

"That was important to me,knowing that I was surviving in such a competitive environment. You could go three weeks without getting a bat out there and I just had to toughen up.

"Playing on such good wickets, I was letting the ball come later, using my feet better. I felt very confident when I started playing again for Durham last April." Also from Leeds Today Article Collingwood's ascent from county cricket to the international scene came in 2001 against Pakistan, a few months after what he believes was his career-defining moment. He spent the previous winter playing for Richmond in Melbourne and finished that stint by sharing the Jack Ryder medal, the award for the best player in Victorian grade cricket. "It won't seem much to people at home but winning the Ryder medal is quite a major thing, especially for a Pommie to win it in their backyard," reflected Collingwood. "It signalled a major improvement in my game; I had played county cricket for four years then and my stats gave no justification for playing for England. "When I went there I was averaging 26 with the bat but since I came back that has been doubled, with no major change in my technique or anything like that. "I just came back from Australia with a lot of confidence in my own ability, a belief that I can adapt to any situation and succeed." I'll delete these quotes if you feel they shouldn't be here--Gavinio 23:48, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Interesting stuff, and could be added to the article. Just because articles become Featured doesn't mean they can't improve. I just read through the article myself and a couple of points have come up that I hadn't realised earlier. Firstly, there's no mention of his World Cup 2003 activity. Secondly, I don't really like the sub-title "England debut", seeing as the section chronicles a number of years. And on the subject of non-England tours - do we know whether Collingwood ever went on an England A tour or had a spell at the ECB Academy? Cheers, HornetMike 12:21, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Wisden cricketer of the year
Can anyone please give the link to the page in which the Wisden Cricketers for the year 2007 are announced? I could not find it anywhere. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 221.128.175.40 (talk • contribs)


 * --ⁿɡ͡b Nick Boalch \ talk 09:24, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * If you insist on a link, The Daily Telegraph lists them here (also saying that the 2007 Wisden' is not published until tomorrow - have you got an early copy, User:Ngb?) -- ALoan (Talk) 10:22, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Protecting
Collys actions today (see here) are causing some serious uproar. I have protected this page initially. It will probably blow over soon so an admin can unprotect if they feel any backlash is no longer on its way. SGGH speak! 18:28, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * You are the only editor who has editted this page today, and in the last 4 days as it happens. Pre-emptive protection is not valid in this case. MickMacNee (talk) 18:39, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I've seen dozens of protections installed in this manner. I am the only editor who has edited because the event literally happened about 15 minutes ago. If nothing comes of it, nothing comes of it. It does no harm to be cautious. SGGH speak! 18:45, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

New Graphs
As this page is marked with a star, it is suppposed to be one of the better on wiki. The graphs however are 2 years out of date, any chance of an update? 86.139.235.80 (talk) 22:45, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

BBC column
The article says "Off the field, Collingwood writes a fortnightly column for BBC Online, in which he revealed that he likes to relax "by playing golf and going to the gym"". This seems to have been added some years ago and I can't find any recent columns by Collingwood on the BBC nor any source saying that the column had stopped. It seems to have stopped around 2007, but that's just my OR. I'd propose: Thoughts? --Mkativerata (talk) 23:55, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
 * if a source can be found that says when the column stopped - adding that very briefly to the sentence; or
 * if not -- either changing the sentence to the past tense or removing it.
 * Remove it.&mdash;User:MDCollins (talk) 01:43, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
 * The whole sentence is not an accurate reflection of the source. The source does not say "he likes to relax by playing golf and going to the gym"; it says that, at one point in his life, while on tour in Australia, he relaxed by playing golf and going to the gym. The scope is not the same. Trebor (talk) 02:23, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I'll remove it now. --Mkativerata (talk) 18:42, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20121111131648/http://www.bbc.co.uk/sportdaq/news/news/2006/03/03/30041.shtml to http://www.bbc.co.uk/sportdaq/news/news/2006/03/03/30041.shtml

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 * Failed and fixed. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 15:12, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

Coverage imbalance
There seems to be a major coverage imbalance here, with the article focusing on his international career and very little on his domestic career (and almost nothing about the IPL). Brutannica (talk) 16:11, 26 May 2016 (UTC)


 * WP:SOFIXIT.  Lugnuts  Dick Laurent is dead 19:23, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

Source material
[(http://www.espncricinfo.com/county-championship-division-2-2017/content/story/1091693.html)] --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 14:18, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

FAR needed?
This is quite an old FA now, and there are a few issues which make me think an FAR might be needed. There is nothing impossible to manage here, but the article needs a little attention and TLC to bring it up to date. Sarastro1 (talk) 20:26, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
 * The prose needs freshening up as I don't think it would pass FAC given the current standards. For example "Recognising his need to improve his all-round game Collingwood took himself off to Australia for their 2000–01 season where he played for the long-established Richmond Cricket Club in the tough Melbourne Premier League"
 * The article is substantially outdated as there is little since 2009. It needs a pretty major update.
 * There are a few unsourced statements, although they should not be hard to source.
 * Maybe the structure could be improved slightly.

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070130201656/http://uk.cricinfo.com/db/STATS/ODIS/ALL-ROUNDERS/ODI_50-RUNS_5-W.html to http://uk.cricinfo.com/db/STATS/ODIS/ALL-ROUNDERS/ODI_50-RUNS_5-W.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050909041955/http://www.cricinfo.com/db/STATS/ENG/BATTING/TEST_BAT_ALL_INNS_100S_ENG.html to http://www.cricinfo.com/db/STATS/ENG/BATTING/TEST_BAT_ALL_INNS_100S_ENG.html
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External links modified
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