Talk:Paul Kossoff

Untitled
The page has a huge chink missing - everything between 'early life' and 'death'. Has it been accidentally deleted? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.254.201.36 (talk) 13:52, 31 March 2017 (UTC)


 * The whole section about his time with Free has been mysteriously deleted too. Flanker235 (talk) 10:00, 28 April 2018 (UTC)

loads of similarities between paul kossof and angus young, not least in the image and playing style, i think its pretty likely angus was influenced by paul —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.53.39.104 (talk) 12:40, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Paul Kossoff. Guitar
As I am aware of the fact that the Les Paul is still in use and owed by by Arthur Ramm. Ex Becket group member 1980,s North East of England.82.30.186.48 (talk) 23:58, 27 February 2010 (UTC) http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=aurthur+ramm&btnG=Search&meta=&aq=f&oq=   82.30.186.48 (talk) 00:16, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 13:37, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Paul Kossoff Biography - Front Cover.jpg

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 10:37, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Kossoff Kirke Backstage July 1970.jpg

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:21, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Kossoff All Right Now GGM.jpg

Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussions at the nomination pages linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:54, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Kossoff RIP on Wall.jpg (discussion)
 * Summerhouse at Golders Green Crematorium late 1990s Kossoff Family Memorials.jpg (discussion)
 * Tributes inscribed on wooden panels within the summerhouse at Golders Green Crematorium.jpg (discussion)

Kossoff's Russian-Jewish ancestry
Adding this section to discuss the inclusion of Kossoff's Russian-Jewish ancestry, which is through his paternal grandparents. The information was previously included in the article and attributed to Kossoff's father, the actor David Kossoff. Another editor recently removed the information, giving the reason that the article should be about Paul Kossoff and not his father. I recently made a good faith update to include the ancestry information, because it's of notable public interest to know where Kossoff's ancestry derives from, and supports the Russian-Jewish and Jewish categories already added in good faith to this article by other editors. Noting the previous editor's comments, I rephrased the information to directly relate it to Paul Kossoff - by stating that his ancestry is through his paternal grandparents - and included this citation from David Kossoff's private papers (which he donated to the University of Southampton) My update has been removed by the same editor who made the previous deletion referenced above, with the comment that the grandparents aren't of note. Rather than risk starting an edit war, it would be great to discuss on this talk page how best to include this information and citation in the article. Thanks! --IndigoBeach (talk) 20:18, 28 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Hi IndigoBeach -- I believe it of note that PK was a gifted rock musician and an important influence on later and significant rock acts. And it is also true that his father, the well-known actor David Kossoff, felt strongly about his own Jewish ancestry. However, the question at hand is: Did PK feel strongly about it? And, even if he did, did it have a demonstrably contributive effect on that for which he has earned an article, namely being a talented and influential guitarist? It is, presumably, inarguable that PK's paternal grandparents were Jewish. However, this is not a full-dress biography, it is a Wikipedia entry. The biographical facts are that PK was an accomplished, troubled, and addicted young man when he died. No doubt, there are myriad other true biographical details about him. In this form and at this length only those bearing a direct and proximate cause on the subject should be entered. Perhaps his mother grew up in Basingstoke. I don't think that datum would generally be considered relevant in this context.


 * It is a post hoc fallacy to claim that since other and previous editors included this information in the article, therefore it must be relevant to the subject at hand. If PK wrote the incandescent song Mr Big as a consequence of his grandfather being Russian Jewish, for example, then some sort of causal connection should be documented. Otherwise it remains, largely, a matter of coincidence. Jdash30 (talk) 21:28, 28 September 2020 (UTC)


 * Hi Jdash30 -- Thanks for your reply, it’s really interesting to have your take on what to include. I haven’t come across a WP:MOS that goes into the same depth so please include it here to share the knowledge, thanks.


 * WP:MOSBIO is pertinent to the discussion I’ve opened up about what to include in a biography article. Although the point you’ve articulated about the article subject feeling strongly about their ethnicity applies to BLP, WP:MOSBIO suggests that it doesn’t apply to articles about deceased subjects, just that it shouldn’t be included in the lead section.


 * WP:NLISTITEM is pertinent as it confirms that notability doesn’t apply to the content within articles; also, the original text acknowledges WP:WEIGHT.


 * I’m strongly in favour of the original wording about Paul Kossoff’s ethnicity and his grandparents’ emigration from Russia being reinstated in the early life section, because it gives richer context to his background and the origin of his surname.


 * To clarify as well that my point about 'good faith' edits wasn’t made as a post hoc fallacy claim. Instead it was made to acknowledge that editors have included information to improve the article rather than to fall foul of any MOS about what not to include. Which doesn’t mean that it can’t be improved on nor that it shouldn’t be removed if it’s detrimental in some way. In this case, my take is that the original text isn’t detrimental or frivolous, and there's a reliable source for it.


 * Let’s keep the conversation open on how best to include Kossoff's Russian-Jewish origins and resolve it soon. IndigoBeach (talk) 10:38, 30 September 2020 (UTC)