Talk:Paul Kruger/Archive 1

NPOV comments regarding Nazi move
I removed an editorial comment that the Nazi depiction of British atrocities against the Boer people was "most vicious". I really don't see how a movie that depicts accurate history, that of British brutality against the Boer people, can be "most vicious". Perhaps if the British had shown more restraint in their colonial dealings they would not be almost universally hated around the world.

The British created their own international reputation, let's leave the editorializing out of it. Germany made a propaganda movie, enough said.
 * Really? The statement "The Nazis used his biography (Kruger had German ancestors) for one of their anti-British propaganda film" is misleading. There was a flim made about him in Germany, true. National Socialists were ruling, true again. But from doesn't follow that the "Nazis" made that movie nor that it was an anti-British propaganda film. I think the British got away better then they did to the Boers then. --41.150.18.235 (talk) 12:00, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

The federal rebublic of germany classifies the movie as so called "Vorbehaltsfilm". As such it can not be freely distributed and is to be screened only with an accompanying introduction about the historical and political circumstances at the time of its origination. This treatment is solely reserved to nazi propaganda, used for educational purposes, that otherwise would be excluded from screening by penal law.

other crap
Er, Does anyone agree that this page should have been moved from Paul Kruger to its current location at Stephanus Johannes Paulus Kruger? If not, let's move it back. Zaian 00:42, 24 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I've moved it back. (Incidentally the user who moved it has been blocked indefinitely from editing.) --Saforrest 04:49, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Tshwane
Tshwane is a post 1994 neologism. As an area it did not exist until recently.

Place of Birth
sources state Colesburg (Northern Cape). Dglschapman 15:35, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Flat Earth
According to Flat Earth Kruger belived the earth was flat. Maybe should be mentioned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Reko (talk • contribs) 18:50, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 * That used to be mentioned in this article because I remember reading it... it looks like someone has removed it since then though, perhaps because it isn't one of the more notable things about his life, I don't see what harm could be done if it is entered. Invmog (talk) 18:52, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

"Oom Paul" pipe design
Does anyone have the design of this meerschaum pipe especially made for Commandant General Kruger of Africa.Ronbuzz (talk) 01:22, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Racialist
Henry Flower, I put this here in case you want to discuss your recent edit about insisting that the street name in Switzerland was changed because of Oom Kruger's racist views without citation or consensus. It can by all means be included into the article if you can get that solid reference for it. Invmog (talk) 17:59, 15 February 2010 (UTC)


 * The reference is already in the article - citation 11.  Really, you're on a very sticky wicket trying to claim that Kruger wasn't racist - it would be amazing if he wasn't, given the time and his environment.   Why Swiss politicians are more interested in his racism than Kitchener's or Churchill's might be a more profitable avenue to explore. ;) HenryFlower 09:26, 16 February 2010 (UTC)


 * p.s. On poking around a little more, I found that the article used to have an explanation of exactly this point. I've restored it. HenryFlower 10:07, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

OK, cool; thanks. I didn't see reference 11.

P.S.- I wasn't going to say and try and defend that he wasn't racist, just that if he was it needed an additional reference because I didn't know there was already one. Thanks again! Invmog (talk) 18:04, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Kruger's fathers arrival in South Africa
The article notes that "Paul Kruger was a descendant of German immigrants to South Africa. His ancestor, Jacobus Krüger, emigrated from Berlin to South Africa in 1813 to work as a mercenary for the Dutch East India Company (VOC)."

I am nto sure this is a likley event, for the following reasons

While the VoC had been recruting German soldiers since 1652 to provide the military defence of the Cape this was no longer the case by 1813. Often recruiting entire untis from minor German princes.

a) The VOC went bankrupt around 1800 and hence are unlikely to have still being hiring troops to protect their Cape colony. b) By 1813 an independent Dutch state no longer existed, having been annexed into France in 1810. c) In 1813 the entire of Germany is locked into a major war to defeat France and it is highly unlikley that any spare men were available to be recruited to serve in a distant and foreign location such as the Cape. Any available men woudl have been caught up in the various German and French armies. d) Britain took over the Cape in 1805 to secure it from Dutch and hence there was no longer the need to recruit troops to protect the Cape.

Perhaps the father did emigrate in 1813, but not as a mercenary - perhaps a simple clerk may be possible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.196.41.196 (talk) 14:57, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Tielman Roos link suspect
The link to Tielman Roos in the article seems out of place. The link is to a person born in 1879. Even if he was able to teach somebody else at the age of 21, this would place the teaching in 1900 or later. This was the time that Kruger travelled in Europe. This does not make sense. If a Tielman Roos taught Kruger this must have been somewhere beteen 1835 and 1840. There were many people with the name Tielman Roos in the South African history. Please find the right one to link to. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.151.203.247 (talk) 19:55, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Just to let you know I corrected that mistake a while ago. Kruger received his education from Tielman Ros, he said in his autobiography, when he was fifteen or younger, so it couldn't possibly have been the same Tielman Ros so I took down the link. --RJR3333 (talk) 15:08, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

New reference
I found this reference in Google Books. It might be useful somehow. http://books.google.com/books?id=wjMiAQAAMAAJ&pg=PP88&lpg=PP88&dq=%22Uiflanders%22+paul+kruger&source=bl&ots=IDQkA4r6v9&sig=ALFxyusKQvArCv6KY25Xt9ad_zc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=iywlUb3kAoiz2gWC4oCgBw&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAA — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.212.211.20 (talk) 20:14, 20 February 2013 (UTC)