Talk:Paul Stalteri

Notable Cousin
Please help me cite the notable cousin article. Someone keeps removing the line "cousin to Justin Gilio" but this is cited here:

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9650409-canadians-of-guyanese-descent

This book notes Stalteri's cousin Justin Gilio. Please "reinsert cousin to Justin Gilio" with the correct citation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.197.243.249 (talk) 22:55, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
 * That doesn't say anything reliably. They are both mentioned but not that they are related, simply that they are both Guyanese. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 21:26, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

REPLY: The above cited material mentions that they are related. Specifically, it says, "cousin to Justin Gilio" (another notable Guyanese individual). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.197.243.249 (talk) 22:56, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
 * First, you should be discussing here rather than adding material to the article. In the face of any objection it is accepted practice to discuss until consensus is reached.
 * The link says: "Chapters: Paul Stalteri, Anjulie, Dave Baksh, Sonnet L'abbe, Djanet Sears, Herbie Kuhn, Alicia Thorgrimsson. Source: Wikipedia. Pages: 33. Not illustrated. Free updates online. Purchase includes a free trial membership in the publisher's book club where you can select from more than a million books without charge. Excerpt: Senior club appearances and goalscounted for the d...more". If you have a correct reference for the book, it can be used to support that he is Guyanese. If you have a quote to support the statement, you may use it with the quote= parameter in a long-form reference when referencing from the book. Also, the fact that the book indicates that they are listed does not mean that they are notable in Wikipedia terms. See WP:GNG and WP:BIO. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:14, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

No, the full text of the link (if you hit "more") says, "Chapters: Paul Stalteri, Anjulie, Dave Baksh, Sonnet L'abbe, Djanet Sears, Herbie Kuhn, Alicia Thorgrimsson. Source: Wikipedia. Pages: 33. Not illustrated. Free updates online. Purchase includes a free trial membership in the publisher's book club where you can select from more than a million books without charge. Excerpt: Senior club appearances and goalscounted for the domestic league only andcorrect as of 20:42, 15 May 2008 (UTC). National team caps and goals correctas of 24 May 2010.* Appearances (Goals) Paul Stalteri (born 18 October 1977) is a Canadian association football player who has spent most of his professional career in Germany. He won the league and cup double with Werder Bremen in the 2003-04 season, and current plays for Borussia Monchengladbach in the German 1. Bundesliga after a spell in England playing for Tottenham Hotspur and Fulham of the Premier League. A regular for the Canadian national team, Stalteri has made 80 appearances at the senior level, scoring 7 goals. He was part of the squad that won the CONCACAF Gold Cup in 2000. Stalteri, cousin to Justin Gilio, was born to a Calabrese father and a Guyanese mother. A defender who can play either side of the field as well as in midfield, Paul began his soccer career playing one year of college soccer at Clemson University in 1996, the same university where fellow North American soccer player Oguchi Onyewu played. Following his freshman year, he elected to turn professional, signing a contract with the Toronto Lynx while attending York University. After playing one season with the Lynx, alongside fellow Canadian National Team team-mate Dwayne De Rosario, where he led the team in scoring with eight goals and two assists, Stalteri was noticed by a scout from Werder Bremen and purchased from the team. After two years in the reserves, Paul made his debut with the club in August 2000, scoring in the first game of the season against Energie Cottbus."

as you can see, the above includes, "Stalteri, cousin to Justin Gilio, was born to a Calabrese father and a Guyanese mother". I added it back in because this reference was actually in an older edition of the article from 2011 until someone removed it. Therefore, the reference should remain in until consensus is reached. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.197.243.249 (talk) 00:06, 2 February 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for that. Just a few points. Do you notice how when you click on the link at the end of the prose (http://booksllc.net/?id=1123762) it links back to the article? Why is that? You may not know, but it's a curious coincidence because there are seven people listed, but the link is to only one of them. Why not all seven?
 * Another curious thing is that just below the names it reads: "Source: Wikipedia". Then after the press bit, it reads: Senior club appearances and goalscounted for the domestic league only andcorrect as of 20:42, 15 May 2008 (UTC). Why, that looks an awful lot like a Wikipedia copy and paste. And when I use http://wikipedia.ramselehof.de/wikiblame.php to find when text related to Justin Gilio was added I see user:84.78.40.209 added the material at 15:18, 4 November 2009. Sure enough, that's the case. And the last I checked Wikipedia cannot be used as a reliable source. Ironic, but true. Also, I'm sure if I look hard enough, I could find the exact revision that booksllc.net copied and pasted to add to that page.


 * Finally, who is Justin Gilio and how is he in any way notable enough to be mentioned? WP:BLPNAME states: "The names of any immediate, ex, or significant family members or any significant relationship of the subject of a BLP may be part of an article, if reliably sourced, subject to editorial discretion that such information is relevant to a reader's complete understanding of the subject." (emphasis mine).
 * Are we to believe that this family member is either immediate to Stalteri. That means father, mother and children. Immediacy may extend to a grandparent or grandchild but usually does not, and I'm not sure it extends to a cousin, particularly not one with a different family name.
 * Is this person somehow otherwise a significant family member? Does this person control the family?
 * Do you have a reliable source to support that these two are related in any way? A newspaper article, this book, or any one of a dozen WP:RSs could be used, but Wikipedia, quoted on a page trying to sell the book doesn't count.
 * And if you managed to somehow prove that Justin Gilio is a close or significant family member, how is knowing that Gilio is his cousin going to in any way help another reader to gain a more complete understanding of Stalteri? Hence, back to notability. You would have to explain who Gilio is and why he is important.
 * It's now just a question as to why this person should be added and you stated that he was notable. He is not notable in Wikipedia terms. Notable family members don't need to be immediate or significant to be linked. I trust that you can understand why this is all very suspicious. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 01:14, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

And I do not appreciate you marking my edit as vandalism. It clearly does not fit the definition. 63.197.243.249 (talk) 00:27, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry you feel that way. Yours was an action that was not productive. Wikipedia expects editors to communicate not just revert the edits of others and assume they can get away with it. While you may not know that, I need to make it clear that this sort of behaviour is unacceptable. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 00:37, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Date format change
I just changed the date format that was modified here against WP:DATERET. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 22:28, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100924165827/http://canadasoccer.com/news/viewArtical.asp?Press_ID=4415 to http://canadasoccer.com/news/viewArtical.asp?Press_ID=4415
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090323075703/http://www.canadasoccer.com/eng/nationals/profile.asp?playerid=27 to http://www.canadasoccer.com/eng/nationals/profile.asp?playerid=27

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Orphaned references in Paul Stalteri
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Paul Stalteri's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "nft": From Rob Friend:  From Randy Samuel:  From Maycoll Cañizalez:  

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 03:24, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Fixed. Robby.is.on (talk) 08:58, 13 July 2018 (UTC)