Talk:Paulins Kill

Merge
I added the merge tag for this and Paulinskill River. The GNIS entry here suggests that the US gov't calls it "Paulins Kill." But I'm not from New Jersey, so I'll leave it to y'all. Malepheasant 08:35, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Not to mention that the name Paulinskill River is redundant, like saying Paulins River River or Paulins Stream River. Gjs238 14:31, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Major edit: 24 August 2006
Will be adding a bit more history (about German emigration from Philadelphia, industry, etc.), and a few more photographs. The historical photograph in the history section...please don't move...because I will be placing a modern photograph at the top of the article as soon as I can find one. Perhaps I may add a gallery of a few photos of the river at different locations, grist mills, villages, etc. along the course of the river, etc. Any suggestions? &mdash;ExplorerCDT 20:35, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Birds
Turkey Vulture Cathartes aura Red-tailed Hawk Buteo jamaicensis Ring-necked Pheasant Phasianus colchicus Eastern Wild Turkey Meleagris gallopavo Killdeer Charadrius vociferus Mourning Dove Zenaida macroura Purple martin Progne subis Common Barn Owl Tyto alba Eastern Screech Owl Otus asio Great Horned Owl Bubo virginianus Snowy Owl Nyctea scandiaca Barred Owl Strix varia Long-eared Owl Asio otus Short-eared Owl Asio flammeus Northern Saw-whet Owl Aegolius acadicus American Robin Turdus migratorius Red-headed Woodpecker Melanerpes erythrocephalus Red-bellied Woodpecker Melanerpes carolinus Yellow-bellied Sapsucker Sphyrapicus varius Downy Woodpecker Picoides pubescens Hairy Woodpecker Picoides villosus Northern Flicker Colaptes auratus Pileated Woodpecker Dryocopus pileatus Barn Swallow Hirundo rustica S bm Blue Jay Cyanocitta cristata D bmw American Crow Corvus brachyrhynchos Black-capped Chickadee Paurs atricapillus Scarlet Tanager Piranga olivacea RP bm Northern Cardinal Cardinalis cardinalis Indigo Bunting Passerina cyanea Field Sparrow Spizella pusilla Lark Sparrow Chondestes grammacus Red-winged Blackbird Agelaius phoeniceus American Goldfinch Carduelis tristis INC bmw House Sparrow Passer domesticus Common Grackle Quiscalus quiscula D bmw Brown-headed Cowbird Molothrus ater Baltimore Oriole Icterus galbula RP bm Purple Finch Carpodacus purpureus RP bmw House Finch Carpodacus mexicanus Mute Swan Cygnus olor Canada Goose Branta canadensis INC bmw Wood Duck Aix sponsa American Black Duck Anas rubripes RP bmw Mallard Anas platyrhynchos

article review feedback
This post by requests feedback about the article.
 * The introductory paragraph might give notability and a hint to its character: best trout stream, eminent domain dispute, wildlife viewing.
 * Format citations with cite book or cite web
 * Isn't there a wikirule against using slant double quotes like “this”?

Nice work! — EncMstr 23:51, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your comments. I added a few things in the introduction as per your suggestion.  I don't know about the wikirule, but i'll check into it.  As for the footnotes, I am not fond of the .php formatting and actually am rather uncomfortable with it, so i chose to use a different (earlier) method as allowed under WP:FOOTNOTE. Thanks again.&mdash;ExplorerCDT 22:41, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Paulins Kill
The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question. You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Ruhrfisch 01:58, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
 * The lead of this article may be too long, or may contain too many paragraphs. Please follow guidelines at WP:LEAD; be aware that the lead should adequately summarize the article.
 * Per WP:CONTEXT and WP:MOSDATE, months and days of the week generally should not be linked. Years, decades, and centuries can be linked if they provide context for the article.
 * This article has no images. Please see if there are any free use images that fall under WP:IUP and WP:IT that can be uploaded. To upload images on Wikipedia, go to Special:Upload; to upload non-fair use images on the Wikimedia Commons, go to commons:special:upload.
 * Per WP:MOSNUM, there should be a non-breaking space -  between a number and the unit of measurement. For example, instead of 18mm, use 18 mm, which when you are editing the page, should look like: 18&amp;nbsp;mm.
 * Per WP:MOS, headings generally do not start with the word 'The'. For example,  ==The Biography==  would be changed to  ==Biography== .
 * Per WP:MOS, headings generally should not repeat the title of the article. For example, if the article was Ferdinand Magellan, instead of using the heading  ==Magellan's journey== , use  ==Journey== .
 * There are a few occurrences of weasel words in this article- please observe WP:AWT. Certain phrases should specify exactly who supports, considers, believes, etc., such a view.
 * Watch for redundancies that make the article too wordy instead of being crisp and concise. (You may wish to try Tony1's redundancy exercises.)
 * Vague terms of size often are unnecessary and redundant - “some”, “a variety/number/majority of”, “several”, “a few”, “many”, “any”, and “all”. For example, “ All pigs are pink, so we thought of a number of ways to turn them green.”
 * As done in WP:FOOTNOTE, footnotes usually are located right after a punctuation mark (as recommended by the CMS, but not mandatory), such that there is no space inbetween. For example, the sun is larger than the moon [2]. is usually written as the sun is larger than the moon.[2]
 * Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.

P.S. Footnotes can be found here: Peer review/Automated/October 2006


 * I think I've taken care of most of these. I'll leave deciphering whether i have too many vague terms or if there are further copyediting needs to someone who has a bit more distance from the article. Lastly, is a  the same as just hitting the space bar? If it is, nothing needs to be done. &mdash;ExplorerCDT 22:55, 29 October 2006 (UTC)


 * A non-breaking space looks the same as a regular space but it will not break, i.e. the number and the unit will stay on the same line of text. I usually just copy it and go through and paste it in. I know there is a way to type it (tried nowiki but that did not work) so I just did the space between each character route. Take care, Ruhrfisch 02:46, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Didn't know the difference, now that I do, the work is done and I'll keep that in mind. Thanks for a prompt answer to that question. &mdash;ExplorerCDT 04:27, 30 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Footnootes

Photos/Images. Upcoming.
Planning on getting the following photos/images to add to this article (though it may be some, not all): (1) Map showing the course of the river, villages along it, etc. (2) Photo (for "Today") section showing recreation along the river...perhaps horseback riding or fly-fishing or canoeing? (3) Photo of some local flora and fauna for that section. (4) Photo of depicting the contour of the surrounding valley. (5) Photo of the gristmill at Blairstown (I do have a stillwater mill pic).

Also on the planning calendar...after the elections, I'm going to work on a few congressmen behind a bill to get the Paulins Kill declared a National Wild and Scenic River. &mdash;ExplorerCDT 15:51, 30 October 2006 (UTC)


 * #3 done with stuff already on wikipedia (i.e. golfinch and trout pics). IMHO, #4 not needed. &mdash;ExplorerCDT 21:22, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
 * #1 done by User:Kmusser (excellent job, big thank you!). &mdash;ExplorerCDT 16:21, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Pre-emptive strike against any future attempts to move/respell
In case anyone wants to change the name of this article from Paulins Kill to Paulinskill (the latter now being a redirect), let me state the following: Despite my reservations and beliefs, until the federal government's board of geographic names changes the name to "Paulinskill" this river should be known by its official name. So, saving that, this article must remain at Paulins Kill. (*sigh*) &mdash;ExplorerCDT 17:59, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) The Board of Geographic Names (U.S. Government) chose "Paulins Kill" as the official spelling in 1898. NJ's government and mapmakers have followed suit. The alternative spellings they mentioned were: Paulin Kill, Pawlins Kill, Tockhockonetcunk.  Paulinskill is not among the government-recognized variant spellings.
 * 2) Google, however, does post 14,200 links for "Paulinskill" as opposed to 11,900 for the official spelling, "Paulins Kill."  Google does record only 238 pages that use both spellings.
 * 3) Many organizations/groups Paulinskill Lake, Paulinskill Valley Trail Committee, Paulinskill-Pequest Watershed Association use the name.
 * 4) I prefer the name spelled as "Paulinskill" since it matches up with other local rivers like Fishkill and Wallkill, Schuylkill, Catskills, etc., (but there is also the Arthur Kill and in Dutch it's usually used seperate),  and it looks more aesthetically correct especially since it doesn't put "Kill" off on its own (which gives me a weird vibe despite its benign Dutch meaning).

Moore's Brook and misguided edit
Sorry, folks, for my misguided effort of Nov. 2, 2006, which you can follow on the History page under the Course section. I hadn't realized until I read farther that what I take to be the origin of Paulins Kill already has the name of Moore's Creek.

Would it mess up the bulleted list about tributaries too much to include my material about Moore's Creek right there? I don't know if there's enough to say about it to justify its own entry, which either would be a perpetual stub or fill up with irrelevant content. I'd also like to include a sentence about the unnamed (Or is it?)tributary that flows westward thru the swamp just north of Plotts Rd. to join near Lake Paulinskill. I find it remarkable that such a low rise divides the water into one long curlicue south, east, north, west, and southwest, and one short cut directly west. --robgood@bestweb.net
 * That isn't Moore's Brook. That's an unnamed feeder stream. (There are 7 main feeder streams in the Newton area, only one has a name.) It would screw up the bullet listing and the flow of the article, and many of these streams aren't notable to have their own articles or to say..."X is a stream that runs 150 yards down a hill by so-and-so's horse farm." That's just inane.  What would be added in the end, would be turning the three quantifiables (Moore's Brook, Paulins Kill and Tributary) and constructing a sentence by adding only the words "is a" and "of the".  The course of a mountain feeder stream is unimportant.  The article discusses the origins of the river, clearly stated as beginning in marshes and a series of small ponds strattling north and west of Newton and in the northern reaches of Fredon Township.  That should suffice. If anyone wants more info, or some kid in the backwoods of Cambodia seeking to learn about the Paulins Kill wants to track down a few-hundred-yard-long mountain streams, they can hit a topo map. &mdash;ExplorerCDT 20:03, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
 * But years later, I learned that the people at Sussex County Community College do indeed claim the land the college sits on to be the headwater of Paulins Kill. The visible course of this watercourse includes two ponds, and below them a steep course on the north side of the main walk and driveway, leaving the campus at the corner of Swartswood Road and Mill Street, where it joins other tributaries and then flows east south of Memory Park to join the aforesaid marshes.  The Department of Environmental Protection has automated reporting stations on it that purport to be monitoring the Paulinskill. 69.125.229.110 (talk) 14:28, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Dry Brook and Maps
Very nice article. I finally got interested in a map of the Paulins Kill and obtained numerous datasets. I have a draft Paulins Kill map which you are welcome to look at. If you want to incorporate it into the article, I will be happy to upload it and put it under the GNU free documentation license. Before doing that, I would like to make any corrections that might be necessary.

There is a discrepancy between the article, which says "The river flows northward into Lafayette Township before curving west where it meets with the Culver Brook (also known as the Western branch of the Paulins Kill) near the hamlet of Augusta in Frankford Township. The Culver Brook begins at Culver's Lake, in the western portion of Frankford Township and flows east through Branchville before the two branches merge."

The GNIS database and the datasets that I downloaded indicate that it is Dry Brook that meets the river near Augusta, not Culver Brook. You can also see the labeling on the USGS topo map at Topozone.

Is there some more authorative source that indicates that Dry Brook ends at Culvers Creek, rather than Culvers Creek ending at Dry Brook as the maps indicate? Also notice the different name given to Culvers Creek (which is called Culver brook in the article, but Culvers Creek in the GNIS and on maps). &mdash; JimIrwin 18:17, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Damn that is beautiful work. Let me work on the discrepancy in the next few days. Whoa, I can't stop admiring and staring at that map. &mdash;ExplorerCDT 21:57, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I think the map is correct as I ran into the same thing making my little locater map. I'd say go ahead and upload it and swap it in instead of mine.  Very nice work.  Kmusser 14:47, 13 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I also like the map very much, but think it should have the scale in kilometers as well as miles. Also do you want to have a locator inset (show the outline of New Jersey and part of PA with a rectangle showing the map location) in one of the corners? Ruhrfisch 15:25, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok. the revisions were made and the map is uploaded as Image:Paulins_Kill.png. The existing locator map works well for a locator, so I don't know how we might want to link to this map.  Ill defer to someone else for adding it to the article. &mdash;JimIrwin 15:07, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It is a beautiful map - thanks so much for making it. Do you want to nominate if for Featured Picture? Ruhrfisch 16:05, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I second such a nomination...point me to the spot to make it. &mdash;ExplorerCDT 19:16, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It is here: Featured picture candidates, but the image should be on the Paulins Kill article page before it is nominated. Ruhrfisch 19:50, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Minor grammar correction
"most recently levying a $121,500 against a Sussex County shopping mall owner" is missing a noun: I don't know if it should be "fine" or "judgement", given the context. Choess 16:50, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you
Just 8 minutes ago, this article was promoted to Featured Article. I just wanted to thank all those who have contributed to this article as you have all had a part in bringing it to the point where it could be included with featured articles. Thank you for your work directly or indirectly, through edits, suggestions, and another other ways that you've helped improve this article. Thank you. &mdash;ExplorerCDT 22:45, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Origin and upper reaches
I see that the maps and photographs linked from Paulinskill's source are centered on a pond in Fredon, west of Newton and north of the road. Does this mean that indeed the Paulinskill does flow thru (and in some places under) the campus of Sussex Community (formerly Don Bosco, as still listed on the topos) College? That's what I thought originally, but then I was given by an authority here to understand that the named Paulinskill only started at the confluence of several tributaries in the swampy area just north of and downhill from Newton's town center, lowering the status of the course thru the college to that of one of the named and unnamed tributaries. Has consensus changed on that matter? If so, I'd like to add to the description of its headwater's course.

I wish someone would do work like this on Tibbet's Brook, where I'm more interested in the history of its course in the Bronx, and what that says about the relandscaping of the area. Now the brook just ends uninterestingly in a sewer in Van Cortland Park.Robert Goodman (talk) 16:46, 28 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately ExplorerCDT who wrote most of this article has stopped contributing to Wikipedia. I have helped some with this article and according to the USGS GNIS the source is at 41.06694°N, -74.77306°W (here's the link to GNIS ). Here a link to the Topozone USGS map, and it does appear that the Kill flows through (under) the campus. Hope this helps, Ruhrfisch  &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 17:03, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Origin of Mamakating name
I removed the following sentence from the article that was tagged as uncited for 18 months:


 * Historically, this valley was often called "Mamakating", from the Lenape for "valley of the divided waters"&mdash;however, this name has fallen into disuse in the latter half of the 20th century.

I was unable to find a source. What I did find was unreliable, and came up with a very different translation. If someone else can find a good source, please add it back.  Jim Miller  See me 21:33, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

From Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rivers/Assessment
I was surfing around to look for a model for a river I am editing- and looked at the FA Paulins Kill. Could I ask a couple of questions. Looking at the criteria, I can't see how this can be FA. Help me understand! -ClemRutter (talk) 10:46, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * There is no title geocoords- surely this is essential
 * The template is - isn't this deprecated- shouldn't it be ? Does this cause the problem above.
 * In lead, there is a link to Palatine Germans shouldn't it be Palatine Germans?
 * In lead, the water flow 76 cubic feet of water per second (2.15 m³/s) MOS states cu ft as shown in the Geobox. The Geobox though over links each unit.
 * In lead we have this paragraph. Flowing through rural sections of Sussex and Warren counties, the Paulins Kill and its surrounding valley are regarded as an excellent venue for fly fishing, hiking, other forms of recreation and observation of a multitude of species of birds and other wildlife. Isn't this POV? This is unreferenced, and vague. Is this good practice?
 * Culver's Lake, shouldn't red links be resolved?
 * Geology - there is a section called Geography and Geology- and a sub section Valley and watershed where some Geology is included. Isn't this a bit vague, shouldn't there be an explanation of how the four phases of the Appalachian Orogeny affected the river? According to the model article structure Geology is an advised top level section?
 * Geology -pre-Cambrian but isn't this Pre-Cambrian?
 * First off, the assessment of this article as WP:FA was done at WP:FAC. The basic criteria it needs to meet as an FA are outlined at WP:WIAFA. The only way to try and delist it is to nominate it at WP:FAR. The main editor for this article was User:ExplorerCDT who has not edited here since Feb. 2007. I watchlist it and revert vandalism and updated the infobox to Geobox. Now for a point by point response.

Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 20:05, 9 July 2009 (UTC
 * There is no FA requirement for title geocoords. You can certainly add it - see WP:BOLD
 * There are eight FA class River articles listed at Category:FA-Class River articles - all of them use Geobox River or the newer Geobox river. Either the Infobox or the Geobox is fine, I think the Geobox is better as it is more versatile.
 * Agree that it is a better link, but German Palatines was started after this made FA. Again feel free to be bold and update it.
 * The Manual of Style says at MOS:CONVERSIONS In the main text, give the main units as words and use unit symbols or abbreviations for conversions in parentheses so this follows the MOS (spelling out cubic feet of water per second)
 * Per WP:LEAD references are not required in the lead, which should be a summary of the rest of the article. This seems to be in the Today section and is referenced there.
 * There is no requirement that an FA have no red links.
 * If you have reliable sources to expand the Geology section, please do so.
 * Agree that Pre-Cambrian is the wrong link and changed it to Precambrian - thanks,

Paulins Kill review on hold
Based on a cursory look, no one made substantial improvements (if I may say modestly) to ensure this meets FA criteria. However, I've placed my FAR nomination on hold, to see if anyone is willing for the feat. « Ryūkotsusei » 21:47, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

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