Talk:Paulo Coelho/Archive 1

Amazon affiliate links
a link to a website with only amazon affiliate links was added by greedy 200.163.81.26 in 6 Apr 2003 and left untouched for over one year!! Vbs 15:10, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Statistics
In Portuguese article it seems that Coelho has sold 65 million copies in 150 countries and his books have been translated into 56 languages. But I don't know Portuguese, so I cannot make sure!! Avia 02:59, 23 May 2005 (UTC)


 * That's correct, I have incorporated that information to the english article. Fbergo 04:24, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

isn't he a jew-born? in the portuguese articles there is never this information but i think he is.

Aside from 'jew-born' having not a nice sound to it in English (with anti-semitic overtones not intended i am sure by the poster) as he was apparently raised in a Catholic family that seems somehow unlikely

Paulo Coelho's Photo
I added Paulo Coelho's photo on his page. It's a picture that taken for him that he send me when I asked him for his picture. I don't understand why it's removed. It's not outsourced. What should I do to make it sourced more that this? Here is the link to the photo -> http://www.paulocoelho.com/engl/20032004_20.shtml As you can see, i uploaded the hi-res version to the wikipedia. Without his help, where can I receive the hi-res version? I hope someone can help me on this subject. Thanks! Arrariv 22:05, 8 January 2007 (UTC)


 * That picture is signed by Frederic Charmeux (as of now; maybe it changed at some point). So it would be up to Charmeux to release it into some kind of open license so that it may be used in Wikipedia. Luis Dantas (talk) 00:33, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Career?
From the Career section, which itself is oddly named:

As Seixas sings: "Two hands together at the same prayer" (Coisas do coração) or "The beauty of simplicity" (Eu quero mesmo).

This needs more context or explanation.

"Coisas do coração" means "things/matters of the heart."

"Eu quero mesmo" means "I want the same/the same thing."

The author's point is lost on me. Cellmaker (talk) 01:57, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Biography
Edit needed: The second to last paragraph in the biography section seems to refer to The Alchemist, yet the book is not mentioned specifically. I think the section for his biography could give more details on Coelho's early life. In a brief biography which appears at the end of the Harper Collins edition of The Alchemist, it is mentioned how his father was an engineer, and his parents oppposed his literary ambitions, having him put in a psychiatric hospital because of such leanings. Should such go here? ACEOREVIVED (talk) 20:13, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

External link may be of interest
Laura Sheahen interviewed Coelho, and the interview is accessible on beliefnet. I would be happy if this were to be added to the external links. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 21:04, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

The Alchemist is now available in 63 languages
This article used to state that "The Alchemist" had been translated into 56 languages, but according to the blurb on the back of the Harper Collins 2006 edition, the figure is now 63. I have updated this accordingly. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 00:30, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Information on his life and his current status as a writer
According to the Harper Collins edition of The Alchemist, he is the son of an engineer. His parents were against his literary ambitions, and their attempts to suppress his wish to become a writer they took as a sign of mental illness. The number of languages into which Coelho's books have been translated is now over 60. It was mentioned on The Big Read in 2003  that Coelho is the best-selling Portuguese language author alive today. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 20:16, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

I know enough about Coelho (being a "literary" type) to know that I don't have much respect for his writing. But I also have little respect for the person who wrote in the "Personal life" section of this biography that he "was raised as a Jesuit but converted to Catholicism later in life," citing an interview in which his experiences with Jesuit schooling were mentioned. The Jesuits are members of the Society of Jesus, a Catholic order founded by St. Ignatius of Loyola in the 16th century. Coelho, like most Brazilians, was raised in a Catholic family; he did not convert. He also apparently attended at least one school run by Jesuits, as many Catholic children do, since the Society of Jesus, among its several missions, serves as perhaps the most prominent educational organization within the Catholic Church. Along with the numerous substantial problems with this biography, this basic error of fact and indication of obvious misunderstanding by the writer of the relationship between the Jesuit order and the Catholic Church should be corrected. 146.187.33.137 (talk) 18:34, 16 March 2009 (UTC)BD

Acclaim and criticism
with reference to the paragraph Acclaim and criticism and its notes on "borrowing of ideas from other authors", how can this be a criticism? Authors often seek inspiration in fairy tales, mythology etc. With reference to the Alchemist borrowed from the fabel "The treasure under the bridge" by Nachman of Breslov, Nachman of Breslov "borrowed" the story from 13th century Persian poet Jalal al-Din Rumi, and one of the stories of his "Mathanawi" titled "In Baghdad, Dreaming of Cairo: In Cairo, Dreaming of Baghdad". Others who "borrowed" the persian tale are:
 * the tale from the The 1001 Nights: Man Who Became Rich through a Dream (vol. 4, pp. 289-90. Translation revised by D. L. Ashliman.);
 * The Pedlar of Swaffham by Joseph Jacobs;
 * Leo Perutz in "By Night under the Stone Bridge"; and
 * Jorge Luis Borges short story: Tale of two dreamers, from the collection A Universal History of Infamy.
 * see also the regional folktales listed at link:
 * How the Junkman Traveled to Find Treasure in His Own Yard (Turkey)
 * Upsall Castle (England)
 * Dundonald Castle (Scotland)
 * Themselves (Isle of Man)
 * The Dream of Treasure under the Bridge at Limerick (Irland)
 * The Dream of the Treasure on the Bridge (Germany)
 * The Dream of the Zirl Bridge (Austria)

Are any of these writers, books, stories somehow lesser because they borrowed an old idea? Also the articles reference for this criticism is to Stories by Rabbi Nachman of Bratslav: The Treasure that gives no details of critisism, only the story by Rabbi Nachman, therfore I think it is an opinion of an editor. I listed at the The Alchemist (novel) a note on the plot coming from the story by Borges, not because this is my opinion, but that is how a good reference puts it. I do not think the source or inspiration of a story can be construed as a critisism, only an interesting encyclopedic fact (if it has references). Yours ever Czar Brodie (talk) 19:58, 22 March 2009 (UTC) Good point - in fact, a lot of the plays of William Shakespeare were based on earlier works. In fact, the idea of twins getting confused, as in The Comedy of Errors, is hardly new to Shakespeare, and can be found in ancient works - if Shakespeare had, unlike earlier works, two pairs of twins. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 00:09, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Popular Quotes
Something needs to be done about this section... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.198.211.245 (talk) 04:00, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

He is a Roman Catholic
Why delete that he is a Roman Catholic? He is a Roman Catholic, even if he may not agree with the Vatican on absolutely everything. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 22:26, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Plagiarism and reads like an ad
The biography was plagiarised from Coelho's official biography, which can be found in various sites including [ http://www.amazon.com/Alchemist-Fable-About-Following-Dream/dp/product-description/0062502182 ]. The article might need more criticism, but it definitely MUST be more neutral. It reads like a press release, and would actually not be surprised if it did come from PR releases. Much of this article needs to be rehauled. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.67.158.18 (talk) 23:04, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

This article reads like a promotional bio. Delete it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.89.72.162 (talk) 15:01, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

The alchemist
While researching on about this novel, I found something very interesting. When you are checking Coelho’s profile, it shows that the book has been translated into 67 languages. Nevertheless, when you double-click to know what The Alchemist is about it says that it has been translated to 56 languages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.191.207.3 (talk) 19:09, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

See my comment above, under the subheading "The Alchemist is now available in 63 languages". You will see from that that I have made a modification to this article. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 09:41, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Coelho and Borge
A better context would be provided for this article if more were made of Coelho's admiration for Jorge Luis Borges. Coincidentally, they were both born on August 24. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 00:39, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Interesting, this just caught my eye because (reading in Borges's article) it just occurred to me that Coelho's latest novel is called Aleph (apparently without Wikipedia article so far) and one of Borges's short stories is called El Aleph, in English The Aleph. Aleph is actually only the English title of Coelho's novel; the original title in Portuguese is O Aleph, reinforcing the connection, as that translates to The Aleph, as well.
 * I just googled "aleph coelho borges", found an interview on the NYT and Coelho's blog, and the way he puts it he considers The Aleph a term and concept (an epiphany/"spiritual awakening" experience, or the point where it takes place, or the place where it leads you – not sure) which precedes Borges, but which he, Coelho, took up. So the influence would seem to be somewhat more indirect: Coelho seems to have learned about the concept through reading Borges. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 21:39, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Roman Catholic mystic?
Is this an appropriate category for Coelho to be included in, considering the content of the article and the other mystics who are listed as part of the grouping?

124.168.185.20 (talk) 09:40, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Paulo Coelho & Peter Gabriel friendship
Is there any public information about Paulo Coelho & Peter Gabriel friendship? If it's true, is there any kind of cooperation or mutual influence?

--Bryard 01:17, 10 November 2009 (UTC)


 * They are indeed friends? I suspected as much because they seem to turn up together in public a lot or at least occasionally, such as at the World Economic Forum in Davos. Coincidentally, they physically resemble each other, even Coelho himself having joked about it on Twitter – OK, I guess the "twins" really are buddies. (Amusingly, Finnish singer Tarja Turunen is huge fangirl regarding both artists.) Ah, Gabriel was actually supposed to provide the soundtrack for the Alchemist film. Moreover, both are members of the Club of Budapest, which is related to their shared activism. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 08:27, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Dubious claim
"He is the best-selling author in the world ."

This claim seems extremely dubious, given how there are dozens of authors with book sales far exceeding Mr. Coelho's on the List of best-selling fiction authors. Compared to William Shakespeare or JK Rowling, it seems impossible that Coelho could hold the title of best-selling author in the world. 99.225.152.94 (talk) 00:24, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

And what of J.R.R. Tolkein? Or Agatha Christie? ACEOREVIVED (talk) 15:33, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

I have just noticed that this claim is NOT made in the article itself - it is on the external link you give. Can I please remind people here that these discussion pages are meant to be for discussions of the article, not the subject in general, and certainly not on what external links say. What is true that is he is the best-selling novelist in the Portuguese language; this could go in the article. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 15:40, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
 * You misunderstand. Back in 2009 when the IP user wrote, the claim was indeed made in the article itself, but the user had just removed it and wrote here to justify the action. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 09:16, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

IPA
How to pronounce "Coelho"? Can someone add Template:IPA2 with the correct pronounciation to the intro? Thanks. --Zoz (t) 17:38, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Done! Seann 08:06, 18 September 2006 (UTC)


 * How am I supposed to read that!? Aaрон Кинни  (t) 05:38, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

In English, it would be "Cow - Lo". ACEOREVIVED (talk) 20:58, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Nope, not even remotely close. :) Naki (talk) 20:20, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

To Be Like A River Flowing - A Novel?
I downloaded the work To Be Like A River Flowing from Paulo Coelho's Website, and I am of the opinion that it does not fulfil the criteria to be classified as a novel. The file I got on downloading was a *.pps presentation containing fifteen (15) slides only. Is it proper for this to be included in the list of his novels? Also, I request someone who knows to enlighten me as to where the right place is to ask such doubts. Is it the Community Portal? Yours, Savio mit electronics 12:54, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
 * It is not any novel in any way, yes. Naki (talk) 20:22, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I have thus removed it from the novels list in this page.Naki (talk) 20:28, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

The novel contains 267 pages and around 103 short stories or Paulo's experiences. From this point of view, without knowing the criteria of a novel, it should be one. On the other hand, why don't you buy the book instead of downloading a pps-file? ;-) Dreamweaver ph (talk) 10:28, 10 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Not a novel. Have the book here, it is not any novel at all. Naki (talk) 20:22, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Way too much POV
The current version of the article fails to stress that, for all his sales, Paulo Coelho fails to earn a lot of respect in his own country as a writer. His work is suspect, partial and of little worth by any reasonable measure. The current text also claims an eccletic quality to his work, which I find strange, seeing how casually he uses very specific occultist concepts that many religions reject. Luis Dantas 18:57, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't understand the second part of your post. Can you rephrase it? Pictureuploader 20:08, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Gosh, I would better; Paulo Coelho has a very specific doctrine which is not really very related to Catholicism; neither is he very respectful (and apparently not even informed) about other religions either. Truth be told, I don't think he has managed to overcome his (allegedly past) background in Alesteir Crowley's Thelema very well at all, assuming that he even tried to; if nothing else, he is still too much of a attention grabber. Luis Dantas 00:48, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I see as completely out of purpose and mere POV the whole Catholicism thing in the second paragraph of the "Criticism" section. I mean, why does the article even mention Catholicism when Paulo Coelho doesn't follow a formal religion and his set of particular beliefs are actually diverse from most religions, and not Catholicism alone? The way it's phrased now, it seems like someone included this part while assuming that Catholicism would be the center of the world and should be referenced for some reason.

As for the first comment, I think what user Luis Dantas is referring to is that the word eccletic implies that the author covers a lot of different grounds, and that this isn't necessarily true. From what was given, though, I can't pick the exact thoughts from the comment on what would be the "constant background" that the author allegedly uses (not to be considered eccletic, that is), over which he would scatter the occasional occultist concepts.


 * He is an occultist alright, just not a very honest - or bright - one. Luis Dantas 00:48, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Also regarding the first comment, it's important to stress that the initial part is very true. Even if Coelho is the most translated Brazilian author of all time, this only stands for popularity. His works are consistently frowned upon in literary circles. Of course, opinions on his qualities as an author can sometimes be very subjective, but it's a fact that he is far from being considered of good literary value among the critics as a whole or under "any reasonable measure", as Dantas states, based only on his sales. Not that the article contradicts that, but, under "Criticism", that is not stressed enough. (Anonymous user here)
 * Coelho himself states that he chose Catholicism as his own way to God (no matter how diverse his teachings or spirituality are), so hence the comparison. Pictureuploader 20:41, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
 * That is a more recent stance from him, and a very questionable one. Luis Dantas 00:48, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I am brazilian. Paulo Coelho is a marketing product, a fake writer!--HistoriaReal 16:09, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

As a brazilian who lives in Rio de Janeiro I know a lot about this "fake writer". He was an user of drugs, had homosexual relationships and participated of a sect that adored the devil.
 * Are you claiming that his beliefs actually work and he quit drugs and devil-worship? I am not so sure myself... :) Luis Dantas 00:48, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I am claiming nothing. This information can not be hidden from the public and belongs to his biography —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.149.73.231 (talk) 23:01, 19 March 2007 (UTC).

Everybody knows his past. Can not be changed. He was in a psychiatric hospital 2 times
 * Personally I do not mind whether he is hetero, homo or bissexual and I do not think that is even relevant for an encyclopedia article; if he "was" a drug user that must mean he quit (which I doubt, but don't quote me); and Thelema (and Coelho) are much less about devil-worshiping than about being professional assholes, social parasytes and emotional predators. His psychiatric internments are the lesser of his flaws, although they _do_ hint at how unreliable he is. Luis Dantas 09:48, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

This article fails because do not show all about his past.

This article certainly needs more about his past. However, I have a harsh opinion about some of the above comments. A writer of several books is not a "fake writer". The fact that he used drugs, is/was homosexual, or once joined a cult, should not be held against him. None of these facts make him dishonest, nor do they take away from the fact that he is immensely popular, both in Brazil and abroad. And, if you read any of his words, you would know that he freely admits his past. Also, being committed to a mental institution is not something that he, or anybody else, should ever be ashamed of. It does not hint at unreliability in any way whatsoever! (Many famous authors have been imprisoned for crimes or mental illness!) I also need to note that being "frowned upon" in literary circles has very little to do with the quality of his writing. Virtually all popular writers are "frowned upon" in literary circles. It's usually a sign of jealousy. He has this in common with most of the so-called literary writers of the past, and once he's been dead 20 years, the literary set will claim him as their own as if he were too revolutionary in those "conservative" times of yesterday to be fully appreciated. KneesThem 05:12, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * In response to above and to add some comment. The biography on Wikipedia seems to have Coehlo's books as a major source of information. How can Wikipedia actually have things like "supernatural" experiences mentioned as facts? Coehlo seems like a major fraud and his biography seems questionable at best. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.9.249.205 (talk) 18:39, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

the information here about our beloved author here is not enough. I want to know more about where Paulo gets his inspiration. why was he able to write out things that everyone should have knew it but forget about them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zack2123 (talk • contribs) 08:56, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Paulo Coelho is viewed here in Brasil as a shallow but popular writer. He is seen as the equivalent of Britney Spears. Jorge Peixoto (talk) 00:07, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I hope you are joking? Britney Spears is a singer, and a bad one at that, not a writer. Naki (talk) 20:31, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

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Redirects
In November 2017 User:Primefac redirected two sparse articles on the novels By the River Piedra and The Devil and Miss Prym to this page as not meeting Wikipedia guidelines. I have just redirected similarly unsatisfactory articles on Coelho's collections The Manual of the Warrior of Light and Like the Flowing River. The former had a template concerning lack of references unaddressed since 2011; the latter had multiple issues unaddressed since 2014 according to the template there. Sweetpool50 (talk) 20:32, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

Commercialism and self-publication
I see the User:mediasantjordi has again recopied the Paulo Coelho list of prizes and awards to the article about him. Since the user was welcomed to Wikipedia five years ago, they should in that time have learned the necessity of providing edit summaries, especially when adding such a large amount of information. The user ought also to be aware of editorial guidelines. Adding that list transgresses at least two of them. First of all, with regard to WP:COPYOTHERS, though the source of the list is given, there is no indication of permission to copy and paste from that website. Even more questionable is the fact that the so-called Paulo Coelho Foundation from which the list originates is a self-published source from the author's personal address in Switzerland, and that is against the WP:SPS guideline. I suspect too that the list is provided by a representative of Coelho's literary agents, Santjordi Asociados, and must remind them that Wikipedia should not be used for publicity by those with a commercial association with the subject of the article. This is covered by WP:NOTPROMO. Sweetpool50 (talk) 10:37, 11 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Is there anything else you would like me to do? Doug Weller  talk 18:26, 11 June 2018 (UTC)


 * oops, this should work. Doug Weller  talk 18:26, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for sorting that out. I agree that the article was turning into a sycophantic hagiography. I expect you have the article on your watch list now. The "Personal life" section could do with sorting; the few referenced facts can easily be transferred to other sections. Sweetpool50 (talk) 21:23, 11 June 2018 (UTC)


 * sorry, I meant about the coi issue. I really don't want to edit the article. Doug Weller  talk 12:40, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

OK,, naturally you have many other calls on your time! Sweetpool50 (talk) 13:17, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

What exactly is the problem with this page here? What part of the article isn't neutral enough regarding Paulo Coelho? If someone could please explain this to me. What sort of language would need to be used to ensure that it's neutral? (User talk:Internet Informant) 23:57, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Recent edits
Hi - I've reverted you for a couple of reasons. First of all, biography.com is a pretty dubious source. There's no indication of who wrote that article, how much fact checking they have done, or what the editorial process is - I can't see how it would meet RS. With regard to the content, there is material here that we should not be saying in Wikipedia's voice. He has a spiritual awakening would be better rendered as 'he had what he described as a "spiritual awakening" (with ref to support the quote); we can't say 'his books have inspired many of his fans' - it's vague, and sounds too promotional. If you want to talk about reception, you either need to quote a critic, or give specific and sourced numbers about how many books have been sold - we have no way of knowing how many of his fans were 'inspired', we just don't write like that here. Cheers Girth Summit  (blether)  15:53, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

Marriages
He's been married at least 4 times, but we mention only one marriage. --  Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  08:06, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Proper grammar/style
Regarding your revert, lists are meant to be written in sentence case. "Romance" is not a proper noun, so it doesn't get capitalized since it's not the first word in the list. See the Occupation field for proper usage. Getsnoopy (talk) 17:28, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Romance, as a literary genre, is a proper noun. Do not confuse it with a romance (i.e. relationship). Sweetpool50 (talk) 20:04, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
 * That it is not, and is not treated as such on WP; it is merely a categorization. See the linked article itself. Getsnoopy (talk) 00:14, 4 September 2020 (UTC)