Talk:Pavlovsk

Old talk
I screwed up in the edit summary&mdash;the link is Template:Administrative divisions of the Russian federal subjects.&mdash;Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) 05:17, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Tobias, "Pavlovsk" is a noun, while "Pavlovsky", "Pavlovskaya", and "Pavlovskoye" are adjectives. Even in English nouns and adjectives are separate words :) Grouping together words that only differ in gender makes all the sense (see, for example, Ivanov), but putting different parts of speech into one bucket is just plain wrong.  Kindly consider undoing your change.&mdash;Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) 22:33, 3 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Is it Altaisky Krai or Altai Krai ? If it is Altai Krai it could also be Pavlovsk District. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 03:08, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

There are only 88 subjects, most of which are named after their administrative centers (Altai Krai isn't one of them). Even with these few there is an exception (Primorsky Krai). There are hundreds of districts and thousands of selsovets. Some of them are named after their administrative centers, some are not, and some are essentially russified transliterations of native forms. Having them all in a standard format (adjective+district) greatly simplifies organizing them into one system (which is from what I understand you are trying to achieve on the global scale). Naming some districts after the administrative center, some&mdash;by the adjective descriptions, and yet some others using other customized forms would wreak complete havoc and lead to a mess that I, for one, have no desire to sort out. Please think about it.&mdash;Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) 04:12, 4 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Why do you think i want to rename it? And if, then of course all should be renamed to loose the russian grammer. I think the ukrainian oblasts where ungrammared. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 04:14, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Again, oblasts are easily manageable due to their relatively high profile and limited number. Here is a little challenge for you: below is a list of several districts.  First are listed the names in original Russian, second&mdash;the names under the system I currently use to standardize them all (adjective+"district"), third&mdash;the name of the administrative center of that district (in English and Russian) with the settlement type in parentheses.  Please note that these are all real examples, they are not hypothetical; nor they are untypical.  I want you to devise a different naming system (one that does not use transliteratied Russian adjectives), that would be intuitive, easy to use, with no exceptions, and with at least some google hits.  The system should by logical, but if the names are identical in Russian, they should be identical in English under your system as well.  If you succeed, I promise I'll accept it and start using immediately.
 * Абанский район, Красноярский край&mdash;Abansky District, Krasnoyarsk Krai&mdash;administrative center Aban (Абан) (posyolok gorodskogo tipa=urban settlement)
 * Нефтекумский район, Ставропольский край&mdash;Neftekumsky District, Stavropol Krai&mdash;administrative center Neftekumsk (Нефтекумск) (gorod=town)
 * Кавалеровский район, Приморский край&mdash;Kavalerovsky District, Primorsky Krai&mdash;administrative center Kavalerovo (Кавалерово) (urban settlement)
 * Грачёвский район, Ставропольский край&mdash;Grachyovsky District, Stavropol Krai&mdash;administrative center Grachyovka (selo=village)
 * Район им. Полины Осипенко, Хабаровский край&mdash;Poliny Osipenko District, Khabarovsk Krai&mdash;administrative center Poliny Osipenko (им. Полины Осипенко) (selo)
 * Гиагинский район, Республика Адыгея&mdash;Giaginsky District, Adygea&mdash;administrative center Giaginskaya (stanitsa≈village)
 * Чебоксарский район, Чувашская Республика&mdash;Cheboksarsky District, Chuvashia&mdash;administrative center Kugesi (Кугеси) (urban settlement)
 * Красноярский район, Астраханская область&mdash;Krasnoyarsky District, Astrakhan Oblast&mdash;administrative center Krasny Yar (Красный Яр) (selo)
 * Приволжский район, Астраханская область&mdash;Privolzhsky District, Astrakhan Oblast&mdash;administrative center Nachalovo (Началово) (selo).
 * Ленинский район, Волгоградская область&mdash;Leninsky District, Volgograd Oblast&mdash;administrative center Leninsk (town)
 * Ленинский район, Еврейская автономная область&mdash;Lenisky District, Jewish Autonomous Oblast&mdash;administrative center Leninskoye (selo)
 * Ленинский район, Тульская область&mdash;Leninsky District, Tula Oblast&mdash;administrative center Leninsky (urban settlement)
 * Ленинский район, Московская область&mdash;Leninsky District, Moscow Oblast&mdash;administrative center Vidnoye (town) (and the district is called after Gorki Leninskiye)
 * Октябрьский район, Костромская область&mdash;Oktyabrsky District, Kostroma Oblast&mdash;administrative center Bogovarovo (selo) (and there is nothing called Oktyabrsk[*] in this district)
 * Best of luck to you!&mdash;Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) 16:16, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

did you drink too much? I restate: Why do you think i want to rename it? But well, if you want a new scheme I may have a look, next week or so. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 08:36, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * No, I didn't. Well, not that much anyway :)  But I see you didn't quite understand what point I was trying to make, which is as follows.  You want to rename the district so it is consistent with the names of other subdivisions (so, it would be "Pavlovsk" district, instead of "Pavlovsky").  The examples above show that renaming it in such a way is impossible for every district, because not every "Pavlovsky" district would necessarily have a settlement on its territory called "Pavlovsk".  So, for consistency matters it's better to leave the names of the districts as they are&mdash;adjective+"district".  However, once we do it, we accept that "Pavlovsk" and "Pavlovsky" are two different words, and per WP MoS they should not be listed on the same dab page.  This page should only list places named "Pavlovsk" proper, and the ajective variations should either be mentioned in the See also section or not be mentioned at all.
 * Sorry if I confused the hell out of you with my previous post. It's all really much simpler than I made it look, at least as far as dab pages go.&mdash;Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) 13:24, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
 * You seem still drunk ;-) You repeat your claim but do not respond to I restate: Why do you think i want to rename it? . I can say: I didn't want to. And after what you wrote, I think it's better not to spend one more second on this idea at all (for now).
 * This MoS thing is new for me. Would like more detailed reference. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 10:51, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, that's the whole point&mdash;if you don't want to rename it, then why keep it here? MoS stands for the Manual of Style; I am sure you've seen it before.  "MoS" is just a shortcut; sorry if I was not clear.  Look up the guidelines regarding the dab pages.&mdash;Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) 13:21, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Proposed merge of Pavlovsk (inhabited locality) into Pavlovsk
All entries are inhabitated localities; this page only impedes the reader's way to the article they are looking for. This should be a redirect as an R from incomplete disambiguation. 𝟙𝟤𝟯𝟺𝐪𝑤𝒆𝓇𝟷𝟮𝟥𝟜𝓺𝔴𝕖𝖗𝟰 (𝗍𝗮𝘭𝙠) 12:32, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment. Although I agree, IMO this needs a broader discussion. This is only one of the 1,974 entries in Category:Set indices on populated places in Russia, which - as well as hampering navigation - are notorious for accumulating ambiguous links. No other country classifies places which coincidentally happen to share the same name as set indices rather than DABs - and that includes Iran, for which there are DAB pages with 50+ entries, such as Kheyrabad. Narky Blert (talk) 15:33, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
 * @Narky Blert Thanks, what about Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Russia? I think I also saw some pages from this set with way too many refs for a dab. User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk)  16:36, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I'd suggest there, and also involve WP:WPDAB. I don't think there is a WikiProject corresponding to WP:SIA.
 * I agree about the refs. If there's an article (including a list article for a WP:DABMENTION), they should be there, not on a navigation page. If there isn't, my usual practice is to comment them out - they'll be useful if/when someone gets round to writing the article. I'm also a fan of ill links on DAB pages; everyone's got Google Translate, and even a stubby article in a non-English language is more useful to readers than a bare redlink, with or without refs.
 * The silliest example I ever saw was a DAB page with two entries, one of which was Someplace, Russia - which turned out to be an SIA with one entry and a see-also back to the DAB page... Narky Blert (talk) 16:52, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
 * This could be moved to Pavlovsk, Russia. That would allow red links and references to remain. There are certainly precedents: Category:Set indices on populated places in Russia. Leschnei (talk) 13:10, 4 November 2021 (UTC)