Talk:Payroll tax

VfD
On April 15, 2005, this article was nominated for deletion. The result was keep. See Votes for deletion/Payroll tax for a record of the discussion. Mindspillage (spill yours?) 00:17, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Why not delete this whole article and start again? One of the most important roles of Wikipedia is to provide a source of clear, easy to understand information on topics for people who don't know anything about it. Wikipedia often acts as a "springboard" into a more in depth understanding of a topic by people who really don't know where to start. All too often, articles like this, especially where taxes or other financial information are concerned, are written in a technical style which presumes prior knowledge and reads more like official government documentation than anything else. People often turn to Wikipedia because they've glazed over while trying to decipher information from dry sources like the IRS. Virtually all tax related information that I've come across online seems to be written to provoke the maximum amount of confusion and frustration in people who have no prior knowledge of the subject. There are virtually no "tax experts" out there who have the ability to get tax concepts across in an understandable way. It's a shame that Wikipedia is no different. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.108.35.111 (talk) 17:30, 5 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the comment, and PLEASE HELP! Try your hand at editing.  Pick a section, read up on it, and then make it simpler.  We need your help. Oldtaxguy (talk) 23:09, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Payroll taxes in other countries
We need to compile a list of countries with payroll taxes.

Do any of the African countries or China have payroll taxes?--71.105.27.126 08:25, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Merge in PAYE and Pay-as-you-go tax
My first thoughts on seeing the article is that there's not enough material to support multiple articles on the topic. I would propose merging in PAYE and Pay-as-you-go tax into the article. Does US style witholding also qualify as a payroll tax? I understand it doesn't replace the need to make a return as well, but the same holds for people with non-simple tax affairs in the UK system too. Winklethorpe 13:21, 5 April 2007 (UTC)


 * When I have a little more time today, I'll add the banners for discussion for merge. Payroll tax in the U.S. is normally associated with a select group of taxes related to Social Security, Health Care, and Unemployment.  Income taxes are usually just called income taxes and do not usually imply payroll taxes.  Of course both are payroll taxes and income taxes (and both use withholding) but we use the terms to generally mean different types of taxes.  Morphh   (talk) 13:36, 05 April 2007 (UTC)

Social security and Medicare taxes
"on each additional amount of gross compensation" - should this say "wages"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Morphh (talk • contribs) 12:46, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

One needs to understand that the U.S. Government has their own definitions in use when referring to the United States Code and the Code Of Federal Regulations. With that said, employee does not have the same meaning as a private sector company may have, nor with the word income, as found in U.S.Code 26. The federal government has many similar words as regular common definitions but in fact have complete different meanings, as defined by law.
 * I normally do not change discussion page posts. I have removed a link to an external site advocating tax fraud that was posted by a one-edit user. Oldtaxguy (talk) 04:12, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Bold text==United States== The reference "Unpaid Payroll Taxes? You Need a Tax Professional!" at http://www.centsableaccounting.com/payroll-taxes/ was removed. I think it should be reinstated. The majority of the information in this paragraph:

"Employers who do not pay withheld payroll taxes to the U.S. government for employees are assessed a Trust Fund Recovery Penalty by the IRS. The Trust Fund Recovery Penalty is assessed to individuals determined to be responsible by a 4180 Interview for the missing taxes and can be those who willfully do not collect, account for, or pay the taxes. These individuals can be business owners, officers, or employees.[2]The penalty is for 100% of taxes owed plus interest."

was taken from "Unpaid Payroll Taxes? You Need a Tax Professional!". The only sentence that wasn't was These individuals can be business owners, officers, or employees.[2]. Should "Unpaid Payroll Taxes? You Need a Tax Professional!" be both reference [2] and [4] then or maybe the last sentence "The penalty is for 100% of taxes owed plus interest." can be moved ahead of "These individuals can be business owners, officers, or employees."

Here is the 3rd paragraph under United States again. I've put where it's referenced from in parentheses at the end of the appropriate sentences:

"Employers who do not pay withheld payroll taxes to the U.S. government for employees are assessed a Trust Fund Recovery Penalty by the IRS. The Trust Fund Recovery Penalty is assessed to individuals determined to be responsible by a 4180 Interview for the missing taxes and can be those who willfully do not collect, account for, or pay the taxes.("Unpaid Payroll Taxes? You Need a Tax Professional!") These individuals can be business owners, officers, or employees.("Payroll Tax Issues.".) The penalty is for 100% of taxes owed plus interest.("Unpaid Payroll Taxes? You Need a Tax Professional!")"

If you want to remove it completely, I understand but I think it's valuable information considering around 1.6 million businesses in the U.S. collectively owe over $58 billion in payroll taxes and accompanying interest and penalties.

Ephra8 (talk) 14:23, 16 October 2008 (UTC)Ephra8


 * While I'm not the one that removed it, I don't know that the link is considered a reliable source per wikipedia standards. The page seems to be promotional.  In addition, I don't know that this information should even be in this article.  It is better suited for FICA.  Morphh   (talk) 17:39, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

State payroll taxes
I disagree with the change from "all 50 states" to "most of the states". ALL states and DC assess unemployment tax, which is a payroll tax. The "all 50" statement is correct, the "most of" is not. I have reverted the change. Oldtaxguy (talk) 01:24, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Proposed reversion of US centric reorganization by anonymous editor
I propose to revert the entire edit by anonymous editor 109.78.232.168. The edit merely reorganizes the article to put the U.S. system first and thus prioritize it. I have added the Globalize tag, and will post this comment on the anonymous user's discussion page in case he/she looks there. Oldtaxguy (talk) 23:56, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

I just reorganized it (before logging in, oops) to place the US section after the UK section. Mattmag (talk) 03:41, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

poorly sourced
payroll tax is actually a misnomer. social security and unemployment insurance payments are not tax. income tax withholding is tax on income. there is no tax on payrolls. Darkstar1st (talk) 19:26, 22 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Social Security and Medicare taxes are taxes imposed under 26 USC 3101 and 3111.  To quote 26 USC 3101:"(a) Old-age, survivors, and disability insurance.  In addition to other taxes, there is hereby imposed on the income of every individual a tax equal to the following percentages of the wages" at Social Security tax rates, and "(b) Hospital insurance. In addition to the tax imposed by the preceding subsection, there is hereby imposed on the income of every individual a tax equal to the following percentages of the wages" at Medicare tax rates. 26 USC 3111 has similar language related to employers. They are taxes.  "Withholding" of income tax is not a tax, but a prepayment of taxes not yet assessed. Oldtaxguy (talk) 18:03, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Dear Darkstar1st: See the post by Oldtaxguy. No, the term "payroll tax" is not a misnomer. There is a tax on payrolls. Social Security and Medicare taxes are not "insurance payments" in the sense in which I believe you are thinking. They are taxes. Famspear (talk) 18:48, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

isn't that the same?!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.222.35.102 (talk) 11:15, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
 * There is current discussion in the US of temporarily reducing or eliminating the payroll tax. In reply to the above, note that it doesn't say income tax.  I believe, but can't confirm, that eliminating the payroll tax (withholding) doesn't mean you don't pay the tax, only that you don't pay it now. Gah4 (talk) 03:56, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
 * There is current discussion in the US of temporarily reducing or eliminating the payroll tax. In reply to the above, note that it doesn't say income tax.  I believe, but can't confirm, that eliminating the payroll tax (withholding) doesn't mean you don't pay the tax, only that you don't pay it now. Gah4 (talk) 03:56, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Clearly stating the total
The section on US Social Security and Medicare taxes had stated that "Federal social insurance taxes...ordinarily [consist] of a tax of 6.2% of wages..." and only later says something about separate employer and employee contributions of 6.2% each.

This is confusing. The top-line 6.2% number obscures the fact that the total US Social Security tax is 12.4%, of which 6.2% is counted as an employee contribution and 6.2% is counted as an employer contribution.

I corrected the top-line number to state the correct 12.4% total, and the note its division into two 6.2% parts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.130.247.72 (talk) 12:18, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * The result of this 6.2% plus 6.2% is that income tax is only paid on the employee income, not the part that is the 6.2% that the employer pays. For self-employed, one deducts half the self-employment tax, for the same reason. Gah4 (talk) 04:02, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
 * The result of this 6.2% plus 6.2% is that income tax is only paid on the employee income, not the part that is the 6.2% that the employer pays. For self-employed, one deducts half the self-employment tax, for the same reason. Gah4 (talk) 04:02, 12 March 2020 (UTC)