Talk:Peaky Blinders (TV series)/Archive 1

Article name
It seems odd that this article is about the television series and not about the actual real gang upon which the series is based - is this because nobody happens to have written an article about the gang, or because nobody has been able to write an article quoting the appropriate wiki-compliant sources?

Either way, *this* article should be renamed something like Peaky Blinders (TV drama series), and the Peaky Blinders namespace should be a stub for an article about the real life gang.Star-one (talk) 18:29, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
 * You can always move it, and start the stub if you want to do that. Incidentally, I just typed "Peaky Blinders" into Amazon. As well as the DVD and Blu-Ray for the TV series, it gave me a link to this book that discusses Birmingham gangs, so there's definitely a source that can be used for the article. Paul MacDermott (talk) 12:49, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Yep, I'd actually intended to do that this week (I was even going to make it a test of how good the new Library of Birmingham actually is) but work life overtook me - I'll see about doing so next week. As for the drama itself, I have to admit I found myself having difficulty following the plot, though that may have been down to how much I was concentrating on being sarcastic on Twitter...Star-one (talk) 20:33, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Good luck with the research. I found a couple of articles that might help in the meantime. Birmingham's Real Peaky Blinders from the BBC gives a little background on the gang. Also, the Birmingham Mail did a piece, Birmingham's Peaky Blinders - in fact...and fiction that explores the differences between the drama and reality. Never thought I'd agree with the Daily Mail, but their piece just about summed up my thoughts on episode one. Paul MacDermott (talk) 21:17, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Only just noticed this thread - and I realise now that it would have been better to have brought it here first, but I have moved the page to Peaky Blinders (UK TV series).Obscurasky (talk) 06:54, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Is that to differentiate it from all the other non -UK Peaky Blinders TV series?! Nick Cooper (talk) 09:01, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
 * It's a reference to the fact that it's a TV series from the UK. If others feel it's not suitable, I have no problem with changing the name.Obscurasky (talk) 09:18, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Boardwalk Empire
This series appears to be a shameless knock-off of Boardwalk Empire. There was no such gang in Birmingham in the 1920s, and if there had been they certainly wouldn't have ridden around on horses. The real Peaky Blinders gang only existed in the nineteenth century.

No mention of any of this in the article. I wonder how many of the editors are linked to the BBC or Tiger Aspect? --Ef80 (talk) 00:35, 12 September 2013 (UTC)


 * What a shame for your rant that you're wrong about the gang not existing. Nick Cooper (talk) 12:58, 12 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the link, which confirms that the Blinders were one of many Victorian gangs, and there wasn't a significant gang problem in Birmingham in the 20s. That is exactly what I wrote above. --Ef80 (talk) 18:12, 12 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Dramatic licence. Nick Cooper (talk) 22:18, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
 * This link from the BBC confirms that the story was shifted from Victorian times to the 1920s. Quite why they decided to do this is anyone's guess, but it brings us back nicely to a point made above. Maybe we need to write an article about the real Peaky Blinders so people won't think this drivel was real. Paul MacDermott (talk) 22:24, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
 * It was probably simply to avoid appearing too similar to Ripper Street, being made for the same broadcaster at more or less the same time. Then again, I don't recall people getting so worked up about the historical accuracy (or otherwise) of that series, despite some fairly obvious anachronisms. Nick Cooper (talk) 22:44, 12 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Not worked up about it, just didn't really think it was that good. Hopefully we can add some reviewer feedback in the next day or two as the telly critics do their worst. Paul MacDermott (talk) 22:53, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The obvious explanation for the period shift is that Boardwalk Empire was set in the 20s, and Tiger Aspect (aka Endemol) pitched it as a BE knockoff. I hate this fantasy history approach to drama, which corrupts our collective memories. --Ef80 (talk) 00:30, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Prove it. The fact that Tiger Aspect made both Ripper Street and Peaky Blinders is a fairly obvious explanation for why the later series might have its chronlogy tweaked for dramatic reasons. Oh, and what has Tiger Aspect being owned by Endemol have to do with it? The company has been around for 20 years, and only been owned by Endemol for four of them. Nick Cooper (talk) 09:15, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Please try to be less confrontational in your responses. I am not your enemy. Your edits removing marketing guff from the article have improved it significantly. --Ef80 (talk) 10:37, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
 * That kind of makes sense, but moving on to what others think of the series, so far I've found two reviews from which I've posted what I thought summed up the overall review. They're very positive overall, but I'll look for more later. Paul MacDermott (talk) 10:40, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Reviews
"one of the most enjoyable things I've seen in some time."
 * The Independent

"From its stylish opening you just know that this is going to be something special. Ice cool Cillian Murphy stars as Tommy Shelby, introduced spectacularly on horseback – like some mysterious Clint Eastwood character."
 * Express and Star

"Not all of the accents sound as convincing as the brilliant Jurassic Park star Sam Neill slipping effortlessly into his Northern Ireland heritage as Insp Chester Campbell, but this series is aiming high for big city mythology, not documentary accuracy."
 * Graham Young, Birmingham Mail

"It was a bit unbelievable, of course, but people like me are always complaining that there is nothing original on British TV. Well, this is original, and intriguing enough to make you want to keep watching."
 * Sarah Crompton, The Daily Telegraph

"It didn't help that almost no one could do a Birmingham accent. Some were veering between Liverpool and Leicester, with detours to Cardiff. Even more distracting was the soundtrack. When the undercover barmaid wasn't singing sad Galway laments while gangsters wept into their beer, the action was underpinned by bursts of discordant American blues from modern artists such as the Black Keys and Jack White."
 * Christopher Stevens, The Daily Mail

"The plot tries hard to come up with twists but I’m afraid I guessed each one [...] There’s enough style to forgive the occasional lack of substance but I wonder if there is enough of a plot to sustain the remaining five episodes."
 * Metro

"It was...undeniably entertaining, though more as a soap romp than a drama; I didn't feel quite as involved with the gun heist from the Birmingham Small Arms factory and the warring gangs as I think I was meant to be. The problem wasn't with the script or the acting, so much as the production – when every detail is stylised to within an inch of its life, the drama loses much of its credibility and menace."
 * John Crace, The Guardian

Copyright problem removed
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2012/peaky-blinders.html. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Diannaa (talk) 18:48, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

removed "Winston Churchill, the Secretary of State for War
Of course it's true that Churchill was Secretary of State for War at the time the drama is supposed to be set (1919), but the drama itself strongly implies that he's supposed to be at the Home Office (episode two contains a reference to the "Home Office" being contacted, whereupon Churchill pops up to phone the Sam Neil character). Obviously this is based on Churchill's high-profile pre-war role as Home Secretary and his involvement in clamping down on "marxists" and "gang" activity in the Tonypandy Riots and the Siege of Sidney Street. It's just been transposed to the post-WWI period, like the distinctly pre-war "Peaky Blinders" themselves. Since the series does not appear to definitively state what Churchill's actual government job is, I think it should not be included. Paul B (talk) 16:30, 13 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Perhaps what you've written there could be included in the actual article? 81.158.18.71 (talk) 18:58, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Series 2
At the end of the last episode (which had several cliff hangers) there was a statement to the effect that the DVD of Peaky Blinders Series 1 was now on sale. It can thus be deduced that another series 'is at least planned' (it not being unknown for planned or theoretical next series never to be produced).

Like many historical series 'fiction based on reality' rather than strictly following it (and more people will have heard of Churchill than Edward Shortt, the actual Home Secretary of the time). 80.254.147.68 (talk) 14:00, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Series 4/1 question
Would there have been a previous Pierrepoint in attendance in the opening prison scenes? 89.197.114.132 (talk) 15:52, 16 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Thomas Pierrepoint, the uncle, would fit. 89.197.114.132 (talk) 12:43, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

Popular Culture
Is the single sentence referencing the series' appearance in popular culture really..necessary? It seems tacked on, especially since there is only the one example that (in my opinion) wouldn't seem to be that noteworthy. I would be bold but I don't like removing things in case people disagree with me :s

Irandill (talk) 23:09, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Anachronisms
The song The Boys of the Old Brigade is sung by a drunken IRA man in the third episode. However the song was written in the post WW2 period. Likewise, in the same episode, another IRA man refers to the "Irish Free State", which wasn't in existence until 1921 and was in opposition to the IRA. (213.158.221.195 (talk) 19:55, 23 September 2014 (UTC))
 * There are numerous examples like this; the whole post-war setting is even out of historical context, but it should be remembered that this is a work of fiction which is only based on historical facts, often loosely. A section on anachronisms would soon become very long and very tedious. Obscurasky (talk) 07:10, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Guess you're right. I just had to get it off my chest. (46.204.220.70 (talk) 19:55, 30 September 2014 (UTC))
 * The 1066 and All That school of period construction is probably the best way to describe it: more a context for a drama than factual background detail.

In episode 2 there is a canal going past an open area described as being Heathrow': is there actually a canal in the vicinity? Jackiespeel (talk) 17:28, 13 October 2014 (UTC)


 * The Grand Union Canal (which links Birmingham with London) passes just to the north of the area. Argovian (talk) 13:58, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

Probably meant to be a 'visual joke' for the viewer - who knows what will be there.

Anachronisms persist with Series 3 (this section could be rephrased as now current events) - the Russian Civil War is ongoing when in actual history it had already ended. (And the 'transition to Stalin's leadership' would be taking place as the story develops.)

'History as it could have been' rather than as it actually was. Jackiespeel (talk) 15:31, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

MUSIC Overlooking whatever plot and visual issues there may be, one of the most anachronistic elements of the series must surely be the music, which is exceptionally so and even to the point of distraction. None of the music I have heard is contemporary with the decade after the end of the First World War, and most of it could not have been made at all until the 1960's and later decades, after amplified instruments and various genres became common. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:30A:2C4A:1CB0:BDAF:8739:280A:7A6C (talk) 10:07, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

Locations
Do you think a locations section could be added in future? Or should I just add to the production section?

I ask this because I know the exact locations for at least 90% of the scenes filmed in Bradford, plus some of the other specific locations around the country.

The only problem will be finding news sources to confirm them.

For example, Bradford City Hall was used in Peaky Blinders series 1 and series 4 for definite, and there's various news sources which confirm that, but they don't say which specific places they were masquerading as in the show. I know it doubled as the Midland Hotel, Birmingham. The Midland Hotel bar where Tommy went a few times to have a drink with Lizzie. He slept with a prostitute there. Luca stayed there, and met with his henchmen there. And Luca had a drink with Polly there. And I know it also doubled as the Prison in series 1 and series 4 for definite, as they're the same cells which have been used in shows like Emmerdale multiple times.

Therefore when I do eventually add specific locations would I be able to say something like:

Prison = Bradford City Hall downstairs. Midland Hotel Birmingham = Bradford City Hall upstairs. Tommy's Factory Offices = A Warehouse on Hick Street (adjacent to Cater Street) in Little Germany, Bradford. Liverpool Docks = Midland Hotel, Bradford. Chinese Tailors = Dalton Mills, Keighley, Bradford. Cemetery = Undercliffe Cemetery, Bradford. Train Station = Keighley Railway Station, Keighley, Bradford. Park = Peel Park, Bradford. Canal = Salts Mill, Saltaire, Bradford.

Or would I only be able to name the fictional locations if I had proof of which real world locations were used for specific scenes?

Danstarr69 (talk) 22:01, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Beyond your personal knowledge, do reliable sources discuss the locations? We do need proof so our readers can verify our content; also, if nobody else bothered to write about those locations, they probably are not a significant aspect of the series. Huon (talk) 22:41, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

Huon (talk) The majority of the real world locations have sources, but not the scenes they were used for, as most of the ones here in Bradford were indoor locations. That's why I was wanting to know if I could add any unconfirmed fictional locations as well as the confirmed real locations. Like the factory was used in almost every episode in series 4 but not a lot of people know where it was filmed, and I'm not sure if there's any sources confirming the Bradford warehouse was the location. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Danstarr69 (talk • contribs) 19:27, 27 April 2018 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure what you mean. There are sources that say those real world locations were used in the series, but not in which scenes? Then that's all we can say here. What's "unconfirmed" has no place on Wikipedia; that would be original research which is not accepted here. Huon (talk) 22:15, 28 April 2018 (UTC)

Here's it simplified using the The Lord of the Rings (film series) as an example:

The fictional location was Middle-earth.

The real world location was mainly New Zealand.

There are sources which confirm New Zealand was the location used for Middle-earth.

But if there were sources which confirmed New Zealand was used as a location, but didn't say it was used as the location for Middle-earth, would I still be able to say "New Zealand was used as the location for the Middle-Earth scenes"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Danstarr69 (talk • contribs) 00:49, 29 April 2018 (UTC)


 * In short, no. For The Lord of the Rings this rough version arguably might still work since all scenes are set in Middle-earth: If New Zealand was used as a location, it must have been a location for Middle-earth scenes. If we want to say that Kaitoke Regional Park was used as a location for the Rivendell scenes, we need a source that confirms just that (and indeed we have such a source in our article on The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring). Huon (talk) 14:35, 29 April 2018 (UTC)