Talk:Pearl Monument

Requested move
Pearl Monument → Pearl Square — this article is not just about the monument, it is about the traffic roundabout as well, and the usage in the press right now, with the protests, suggests that this article is better named as "Pearl Square", covering the square, roundabout and monument as an article. The section on the Bahrain protests is not about the monument, it is about the square. 64.229.100.61 (talk) 22:31, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.


 * Oppose. Google tells me that "pearl square" manama gets more hits than "pearl roundabout" manama, 265,000 to 161,000.  Since these numbers are of the same order of magnitude, we must not simply and crudely go by numbers.  (A) It seems many careful reporters with knowledge of the region use "roundabout."  (B) If Emjay911 is right that the standard Arabic form of reference translates as "Pearl Roundabout," this should be given some weight (and added to the article). Which is all to say that I would support a move to Pearl Roundabout. Wareh (talk) 15:22, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * P.S. I did attempt to add the Arabic name to the article. Someone with good Arabic, if I should have written luʾluʾ, please fix me. I believe in some dialects this would be prounounced lūlū, but (A) I don't know if that applies to Bahraini Arabic, (B) perhaps the transliteration should match the orthography anyway and not the local pronunciation. I would like to see the article eventually begin its lead simply "Pearl Roundabout (Arabic: دوار اللؤلؤ‎, Dawār al-lūlū, 'Roundabout of the pearls')..."Now, luʾluʾ is the plural "pearls," though this does seem to come out very awkwardly in English (of course I'm not suggesting this nonstandard literalism be put in the title!)... whereas in other languages Place des perles etc. sounds all right. Any suggestions? Wareh (talk) 20:27, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * That's somewhat problematic, since that article was merged here by . If we move it to, it's edit history should be moved to for contribution preservation. 65.95.14.96 (talk) 22:45, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I see what you mean (there are article histories possibly worth preserving both here and at Pearl Roundabout). Actually, this opens up a much simpler solution than a move.  What should happen (in my opinion) is that this article be merged into any old content at Pearl Roundabout.  This is as simple as editing this page and turning it into a redirect, while editing Pearl Roundabout to include all worthwhile content from both histories. Anyway, these technical issues should not influence what an article is called; it should be called by the most appropriate title.  Wareh (talk) 00:13, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Second Survey: Move or merge to Pearl Roundabout

 * Support per comments above and below. Wareh (talk) 00:51, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I say resurrect the article that was at Pearl Roundabout before someone (unilaterally?) replaced it with a redirect, and then merge this one into it (so yes, effectively move this to Pearl Roundabout, with a little rewording). Am I reading the discussion right by concluding that there wouldn't be any objection to this?--Kotniski (talk) 08:03, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
 * That seems right. You're right that since Pearl Roundabout existed as a valid article until it was unilaterally and wrongly reduced to a redirect, there is no need to gather a new consensus to create it with the appropriate content that belongs to it.  Then, it is certainly the case the monument is less notable (especially after the protests) than the major public space of which it is a part, so that merging the content here to the article on the public space, however titled is eminently justified.  So I'm proceeding along those lines.  Of course, if anyone wants to (1) open a move discussion to move Pearl Roundabout to some other title; or (2) argue that the monument is important enough to be split back off of the article on the public space, there is no prejudice against that (though in the discussion here we have produced a couple of valid cautions, and it would be worth patiently building a consensus in my opinion).  Wareh (talk) 18:00, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
 * P.S. The merge is complete. I also note that Pearl Roundabout was created before Pearl Monument (on the same day). Wareh (talk) 18:55, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Discussion
Wouldn't Pearl Roundabout be better? The media articles I've read all call it that, not Pearl Square. — Nightstallion 08:49, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Let's check google news: "pearl square" 2300 hits -- "pearl monument" 14 hits -- "pearl roundabout" 88 hits -- 65.95.14.96 (talk) 13:18, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I get 2,343 vs 576 (Square vs Roundabout), but fair enough. I'm in favour. — Nightstallion 14:48, 18 February 2011 (UTC)


 * That's not an argument - The place has never been called 'Square' before the english-talking-media's take on the protests. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.167.58.210 (talk) 17:37, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Some of the Pearl protesters have called it Pearl Square on TV in English. So does Arab News, The Peninsula (Qatar), Tehran Times. These are news sources from the surrounding region, so are not foreign America, European, Indian, Australian sources. 65.95.14.96 (talk) 00:52, 21 February 2011 (UTC)


 * I lived there for years, and as an English speaker I cannot comment on the name in Arabic, but the place is absolutely never called "Pearl Square" in Bahrain. No one in the country used that term before the media picked up on this story, probably because it is convenient if your story is aimed at comparing this to Tahrir square in Egypt.  Again, Pearl Roundabout is the name.  We should not rename a location in a country because a series of news stories over a period of several weeks decides to call it that.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.195.133.5 (talk) 20:41, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

In Arabic, they call it "Dawwar Al-Lulu" meaning Pearl Roundabout, Dawwar meaning Roundabout .. this is the official known name. What is interesting, is that after the deadly attacks of 17 and 18 Feb, protesters are dubbing it Maydan Al-Shuhada, meaning Martyrs Square. source: ive been there — Preceding unsigned comment added by Emjay911 (talk • contribs)


 * Article was merged to Pearl Roundabout

Needs a better photo
Needs a better photo. From a distance, on a cloudy day. That was just a w'pedia photo I found in a pinch, and need something closer, better light. Anyone has one, feel free to upload.

dino (talk) 23:45, 17 February 2011 (UTC)


 * This also needs some photos of the protests at Pearl. 65.93.15.125 (talk) 22:43, 22 February 2011 (UTC)


 * A protest image was uploaded at File:Pearlroundabout.jpg.

Lulu
What is lulu in Manama?. Is it Pearl sq?. 79.149.29.74 (talk) 08:09, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I've added reference to "Lulu Roundabout" to clear this up (and also updated the disambiguation page Lulu. Wareh (talk) 15:22, 21 February 2011 (UTC)