Talk:Penal colony of Clevelândia

Translation
Hi @Torimem, thanks for your translation! Are you planning to finish the rest of it (the Operations section)? If so, it would make a good candidate for Good Article status. czar 03:41, 6 May 2024 (UTC)


 * I will finish it, yes. Torimem (talk) 10:15, 6 May 2024 (UTC)
 * @Czar, finished. Sorry for taking so long. Torimem (talk) 22:55, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
 * @Torimem, nice! Are you planning to nominate it for Good Article status, or would you want help (or someone else to do it)? czar  11:42, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * The person who wrote this article is user @Serraria, an outstanding editor whose articles I've been translating for quite a while now. He might be interested in nominating it (and frankly the one capable of doing so). However, I don't think this article would pass the nomination process, as it uses a lot of academic sources such as dissertations and theses, which are considered primary sources I've been told. Torimem (talk) 11:57, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * thanks for the ping. I wouldn't nominate this without waiting a while, revising it and adding a bit more content. I could get more complete coverage with Pinheiro's and Samis's books, but I don't have access to them. As for dissertations and theses, I perfectly understand if they're assumed to be less reliable as a whole and an almost exclusive usage of the best sources is one of the criteria for good/featured articles. What I would object to is calling them primary sources while journal papers are somehow still secondary sources. In this field (History, and specifically History in Brazilian academia) both cases have the same content: commentary and analysis on historical documents, a textbook definition of a secondary source, and/or partial literature reviews. In fact, papers on journals are often chapters from the author's thesis. Respected journals have brighter credentials, but that's different from primary/secondary status. Citing the literature review section of a 2020s thesis adds a bit more value than exclusively citing the older books it uses, which could risk original research and may not reflect the most up-to-date scholarship (though I'd also directly cite those books if possible, and they'll often present information ignored by more recent scholarship which has nothing to add on it). I'd like to hear 's opinion on this. Serraria (talk) 00:42, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @Serraria, where are you located? I have access to Pinheiro and Samis  so thinking about how best to help get them to you.
 * Dissertations are passable for Good Article status and most uses but not Featured Article status. Our guidance is to generally use them with care and to prefer their published monograph versions. The article isn't based on these sources so I don't see an immediate issue, though they are potentially challengeable. czar  12:19, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
 * do you mean pointing where I could find these books, scanning them, mailing them, or something else? I'd be grateful in any case, but I'd first make that offer to one of the editors who focus on anarchism and might have more of an interest than I do; I imagine a major expansion by one of them could even give this a chance at . I myself only wrote this as an auxiliary to my main research on tenentismo.
 * The Portuguese wiki is more forgiving on the dissertation/thesis issue, given that the São Paulo Revolt of 1924 is featured over there. But even if it weren't, getting the most detailed and up-to-date information to the Lusophone public is a greater priority for me than the gold star itself. Serraria (talk) 12:15, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @Serraria, digital or mail, either. Digital is probably easier if you're outside the US. Happy to get copies to any editor wishing to finish the article. :)  czar  05:19, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I've opened a topic at the Mutirão Anarquista Wikipediano, now let's see if I can find a volunteer. Serraria (talk) 16:39, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 * User @El Descamisado, who wrote articles such Anarchism in Brazil, might be interested in this one. Torimem (talk) 16:43, 7 June 2024 (UTC)