Talk:Penny Arcade/Archive 2

The Watch
In the Attributes of the comic section, the following text describes "The Watch".

"For example, often, when Gabe kills Tycho or vice versa, the killer takes a certain Pac-Man watch off the dead character, but only if he currently has the watch [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9]."

I'm an avid PA reader, and I've followed this background continuity for sometime. However, links 8 and 9 both show Tycho killing Gabe (and presumably taking the watch), which directly contradicts the text. Did PA screw up, or is there a missing watch comic between these two?


 * Hmm, it does seem like a glitch. I guess it's hard for them to keep track too.  Maybe try the Penny arcade forums?  --DDG 18:48, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Podcast
I've added a section about the new podcast being released by the PA guys. It's just basic information (there have only been 4 episodes so far). Please feel free to go in and add/edit. Hopefully it's useful as a starting point.--Cziltang Brone 20:01, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

In-line references
160 in-line external links!!!!! Wow, some cleanup is definitely needed. There is no need for a link for every sentence. Remember that Wikipedia is not a repository of external links. I will add a cleanup tag to the article. Remove it once this issue has been addressed. Joelito 02:00, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Complaints and critcism for language
It's a long running complaint by some people on Penny arcade's and some others comics that they rely more on language than humor. While Penny arcade is a funny comic on it's own, it's almost always named on top of that list, especially for it's extreme use of the "four letter words". I think at the very least some meantion of the criticism or the stronger than normal language wouldn't hurt this article. Especially when you consider even with this complaint the comic is doing better than most others.--Kinglink 20:06, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree that they rely heavily on language, but not on what kind. What distinguishes PA from other webcomics is Krahulik's extremely crisp and distinctive art and Holkin's deliberately baroque, ornate, intricate, obscure, and sesquipundalian use of twenty-dollar words.  To brush PA off as a "bathroom humor" comic would definitely not be accurate.  I can't offhand think of a strip where the punchline depends on - rather than merely uses - a foul word for humorous effect.  Of course, if you can find a source on the criticism of their language, then by all means, it should be included.  Kasreyn 11:47, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Other Works links broken
Checking them just now. The BiA one is broken. Pandora Tommorow broken. Chaos Theory broken. - SkarmoryThePG 15:50, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

AntiVandal Bot error
To other editors, please refer to my comments here. AntiVandal Bot has somehow mistakenly got it in its head that the vandalized page version with the content from English language is the "good" version, and is reverting me. Please help me rv AVB until the bot's owner sees my note on his talk page and fixes it.

Please note that WP:3RR does not apply to malfunctioning bots. One can, and should, revert a malfunctioning bot as many times as is needed. Thanks, Kasreyn 15:15, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Never mind, Tawker has already fixed it. Fast service!  :)  Kasreyn 15:25, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Propose split: List of Penny Arcade minor characters
The Minor Characters section is getting really long and unmanageable. I propose splitting it off into its own article. However, I also propose that we promote Annarchy, Div, Charles, Brenna, and Kara to Major characters so they stay in this article. These five have been featured in many more comics than the other minor characters listed. Opinions? Kasreyn 08:48, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Support Kasreyn 08:48, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Done
Please check the Penny Arcade List of Characters article to make sure it conforms to wiki standards.--Mighty Ozymandias 23:23, 30 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Removed minor characters from main article as requested by Kasreyn .--Mighty Ozymandias 05:14, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Necrowombicon
"The wombat is also indirectly referenced by the phrase 'Necrowombicon' (a parody of the Necronomicon in H.P. Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos) when Tycho attempts to 'uninstall' the Mortyr demo and as the name of a fictitious gaming convention."

As far as I can tell, Necrowombicon was a real convention held by Penny Arcade fans, although I get the impression that it ended with the introduction of PAX.
 * Necrowombicon (the convention) got their name from the reference in the comic, not the other way around. I believe (both?) events were designed as one time parties, organized by PA Patrons (the donors that kept the site afloat during their legal troubles), rather than actual scheduled conventions. Skyeknighton 15:33, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

The first necrowombicon was held in 2001 in Seattle, and it was a party at Seattle Center's food court, and Gameworks. There was probably about 30 or so people there, and it was organized by a group called The Ministry of Peace. They used to have a website, though I believe it is down now. I did a few comic strips detailing the events at onlinecomic.net. Could include those if you want. Chris Furniss - weeklygeekshow.com 19:57, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

April 2006 Popularity
Does anyone know what caused the April 2006 traffic spike, in which the traffic to penny-arcade.com more than tripled? Google Trends is no help. --Beefyt 05:08, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I have two theories: Podcasts, and Alexa being stupid. My money's on the latter. Nifboy 05:12, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

August 2006 Downtime?
The site appears to have been down for at least 5 days now. What's the deal? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Guillochon (talk • contribs)


 * Must be you, since I haven't had any problem accessing the site. EVula 18:20, 14 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I cannot access the site from home or from work. I guess if others can, it must just be a major name server issue. Guillochon

UPDATE: I figured it out, Penny Arcade changed the url of the latest comic. I was seeing a 404 error and thinking the whole site was down.

Jack Thompson in Ctrl-Alt-Delete
Was there not the inclusion of the link to the Ctrl Alt Delete strip that blatantly made fun of Thompson, as well as an explanation? The strip came out when the controversy was picking up speed no? I thought it was created as a defense of PA from long time friend Tim Buckley. As such, should it not be included in the article? Chewbacca1010 15:38, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Legal Troubles
there's a whole section on "Legal Troubles" and no mention of the hell of getting the first book out? This would be hard to source, as it's only been mentioned in a handful of newsposts, with very few details, but it certainly seems important.


 * In person, if people at a panel ask about this, Tycho usually says the publisher got the rights for their stuff, sold some copies of the book, and moved to Alaska without passing any of the proceeds on to them. I'm just not sure how one would site a statement like that. Hewinsj 05:48, 30 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree. At the very least it could be mentioned that despite the comic's popularity, legal squabbles prevented them from releasing their work in print until (date).   They also said in a news post (iirc) that they sold the rights to the comic not once, but twice, which might put this discussion into the section about how they now manage to live off proceeds of the site. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.181.186.237 (talk) 11:29, 16 February 2007 (UTC).

Otheruses unneccessary?
Cuchullain feels that otheruses is unnecesary and has removed it. I feel that it is very usefull and quite in keeping with the standard usage of otheruses templates. What are some of the other opinions on this matter? Shinhan 22:28, 4 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with Shinhan that the otheruses is needed here. I only knew Penny Arcade as a webcomic, and without the "other uses" hatbox I wouldnt have found the other meanings for the term.  It is also a good short-cut that facilitates user traffic to the other articles without perfoming a search.


 * Besides, the WP:HAT definition states that its use is still disputed and unresolved, so we shouldnt be so quick to get rid of it now. It has been there for as long as I remember and has proved to be very useful.  EVula's sugestion that it is not needed since it has been disambiguated is not true.  I would think it is needed even more to help users find other similarly named articles or help users find their way back.


 * Furthermore, we need to discuss it here before it is removed again, otherwise it would be considered vandalism since its very disruptive. Mighty Ozymandias 23:59, 7 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I would keep it in. There are other uses for the word Penny Arcade, like the old fashoned Penny Arcade's that the web comic is named for.  Hewinsj 18:45, 12 October 2006 (UTC)


 * It isn't needed because there's no way to accidently happen upon this article. Penny Arcade redirects you to Penny arcade, which is a disambiguation page. From there, it points people to similarly named articles. There were two redirects, Penny-arcade and Penny-Arcade, that linked here, but I corrected those. It is impossible for someone to search for "penny arcade" and accidently happen across this article as opposed to the disambig page.


 * For example, Photograph (Def Leppard song), Photograph (Nickelback song), and Photograph (Ringo Starr song) are distinct enough that they don't have to link back to Photograph (disambiguation), whereas Photograph itself does.


 * An interesting redirect that I found, however, was John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory. One of my favorite comics. :-) EVula 20:28, 12 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I believe you have given good reasons for removing it, but I also believe that the tag does more good than harm. Its one line of code and I know that if all the pages & articles got a WP:HAT it would add  up to a helluva lot of memory in the servers.  But here it serves a good purpose and we believe its needed.67.173.148.195 <--This here comments are mine Mighty Ozymandias 06:29, 21 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The amount of code it takes up is negligible, which is why I didn't bother mentioning it. I remain unconvinced, since your argument provided no.. well, argument. :-P EVula 06:12, 21 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I forgot to sign-in before saving my comments, so I tried to fixed that (I wonder if its allowed) but it didnt save my changes (so I guess not). Dont want to make it seem like we've got a sockpuppet here. I was commenting on your latest entry, I've made my case already. Mighty Ozymandias 06:29, 21 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Just to give some background here, this article used to be at Penny Arcade, and the article on actual penny arcades was at Penny arcade (lowercase "A"). Because of the potential confusion and the tendency that one might have to type "Penny Arcade" in caps in the searchbox, we had the dablink at the top to avoid confusion.  Now that we have the disambiguated title, I don't think it's really necessary, but I'm not really that invested either way. --DDG 07:15, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Infobox picture
Wouldn't it better to have the logo in the infobox rather that the screencapture? --Mika1h 20:25, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

PAX Summary

 * The PAX stuff should probably be reduced to a summary, since it's mostly just a copy of what's in the main PAX article. Klparrot 07:43, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

GA Review
In reviewing the article for GA status, I am putting the article on hold until these issues are addressed: Please correct these issues, and I will check again on this when you do to see if the article can be passed. --Jayron 32 20:53, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Unsourced assertions of facts:
 * Penny Arcade Adventures: On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness is an upcoming episodic video game based on the strip. It is being developed by Hothead Games. No publisher has been announced.: Please either reference or remove. May be a violation of WP:NOT as not a crystal ball.  I would recommend removing altogether until it is released.
 * Several entries in the Other Works section are unreferenced.
 * Also, the referencing style needs to be cleaned up. Per WP:CITE, please either manually or using the  templates expand the citations to some form of completeness.  Ideally, this should include the Author's name (if availible), Article/Work name, publication information, and retrieval dates for websites.  See WP:CITE for more information.  Choose any style and be consistent, but these need expansion.


 * Issues have not been fixed in the past week, so I am failing this article. If these issues are fixed, please feel free to renominate again at WP:GAC for another review.  This one is real close, and I would like to see it get Good Article status.  The referencing format still needs fixing, and the Other Works section still needs referencing in places.  Also, the unreleased and unpublished game is probably still a violation of WP:NOT a crystal ball... Good luck and happy editing! --Jayron 32  22:12, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Just a webcomic?
I'm new to this article so sorry if this has been discussed before, but shouldn't the article's first paragraph make mention of BOTH the webcomic AND the blog/gaming commentary? It seems to me that Penny Arcade is not just a "webcomic", it's equal parts webcomic and essay. This seems like a particularly strange omission since the top-line image is a screenshot of the blog, not the comic strip. Vandelay 19:04, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and added mention of the blog. Vandelay 21:34, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia policy question
I remember a while back some YouTube celebrities had articles removed because the there wasn't an external source and there was original research.

Why is all the Penny Arcade stuff exempt from this?

To be clear, I have no intention of trying to get the page removed, I'd just like some clarification on when articles should be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 171.71.37.28 (talk • contribs) 19:35, 19 February 2007


 * Because Penny Arcade is a well-established and tremendously popular webcomic that has a massive internet presence (and not inconsiderable influence, at least by webcomic standards). I mean, I could go into more detail here, but that's essentially what it boils down to. The comic strip itself runs on a number of paper magazines, Tycho and Gabe's work has been featured in numerous notable publications other than their own site, such as Wired, Child's Play, the charity they run has been noted outside gaming circles, as has their interaction with Jack Thompson. They have three print collections of their work out. In short: they don't simply exist in a small microcosm of their own, and they have been around long enough that we know they won't fade into obscurity next month. Or, to put it bluntly -- sure, it's not like they're the kings of the universe, but they are of interest to people other than some guys on YouTube. -- Captain Disdain 20:57, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Penny Arcade Game
I think a section on the newly announced penny arcade game entitled Penny Arcade Adventures: On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness should be added. This will eventually need to be moved to a new article as new information is released, so it might be best to start an article on this topic in the first place. Please reply on my talk page: Herkelthebrave —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.231.127.15 (talk) 23:37, 13 March 2007 (UTC).

Critical Reception
Have they only been praised? I think it'd be interesting to see what people have to say about that them that's negative criticism. I don't mean Jack Thompson or American Greetings, I mean legitimate issue taken with the themes, writing, art, or actual response to the comic itself. --maxbz —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.104.197.134 (talk) 04:49, 11 April 2007 (UTC).
 * If you can find some that comes from a legitimate/reliable source (the stuff at Megatokyo is rather borderline), you're welcome to add it in. Nifboy 07:48, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I changes Reception to Acclaim. Not to suggest that they have only been praised. But I have never heard the phrase Critical Recpetion. Alternatives include dropping the Critical... DocGratis 16:43, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Introduction for PA
I noticed the introduction states that Penny Arcade is about video games...actually, to quote.
 * "Penny Arcade is a webcomic and blog written by Jerry Holkins and illustrated by Mike Krahulik. It focuses mainly on video games."

This informations seems inaccurate, as Tycho and Gabe don't sit around all day talking about Halo and Doom. They actually reflect current events in the gaming industry as well as events world wide, not just video games themselves. This should be noted. Konraden88 09:48, 15 April 2007 (UTC)


 * it says "focuses mainly on video games" which means it is mostly about video games and culture not not always. Go ahead and reword it if you want but it seems to already be worded pretty well. Harlock jds 19:46, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

American Greetings
I did some research with the Wayback Machine at http://web.archive.org and found that they did archive the offending strip mentioned. I won't give the exact URL, but note that the archive date was April 22, 2003 for the April 14 strip. If for some historical value you want to post this Strawberry Shortcake stuff, I say it shouldn't be that hard to find. Personally, I consider it a form of parody, even if it was not in good taste. Example: look at Family Guy with their many parodies - Kool-Aid guy, Minnie Mouse "posing" for Disney, etc. Remember, though, the web address for Penny Arcade is http://penny-arcade.com with the dash. --Geopgeop 06:39, 26 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I think the difference here is that Penny-Arcade uses their art as a for profit thing. Parody and satire are all good and fun, but not when you try to make a profit off of someone's work.  That's all I could think of at any rate.  TotalTommyTerror 18:38, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Except Family Guy does their parody for profit too. The issue here I think was that they used AG's material to do a parody of McGee's Alice. If they'd only done a parody of AG, or of Alice, then AG wouldn't really have a case. Jabrwock 19:01, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
 * What happened was that AG Didn't have a case at all, but PA couldn't afford a lawyer and didn't want to run the risk of losing their comic. They couldn't hold, so they folded. --Durahan 16 December 2005
 * According to Gabe and Tycho, they contacted their attorney via the comic defense fund and found that they were not 100% totally in-the-right as far as the law was concerned, and fighting it would be costly without any surety of victory, so they let it go. If you want a cite, find the Q&A from Slashdot. Bjsiders 13:37, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Apparently, it seems that American Greeting section in the article is quite inaccurate. First off, the picture shown in the article is actually the uncensored stip and not the censored one; the censored comicstrip is basically a black picture with text that encourage the reader to contact American Greeting's lawyers.

Additionaly, the strip was intended to parody both American McGee and Mcfarlane Toys. In other words, the Cowardly Lion mentioned in the Penny Arcade blog is not of McGee's design, but of Mcfarlane Toys. At the time, both McGee and Mcfarlane toys made seperate toylines based on the Wizard of Oz with a more Adult-orientated theme. Lastly, Strawberry shortcake's protrayel as a Dominmatrix is actually a parody of Mcfarlane Toys' design of Dorothy, who is depicted as a dominmatrix; for their Monters line, Mcfarlane toys tends to takes female characters from children's stories and turn them into sultry vixen. For instance, Mcfarlane toys have recently produced a Mrs. Santa Claus figure, who is depicted as a stripper.

--Doomzaber (talk) 10:42, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Merge Proposal for Epic Legends Of The Hierarchs: The Elemenstor Saga
Epic Legends Of The Hierarchs: The Elemenstor Saga shows no evidence of notability through significant coverage by reliable secondary sources. I think it could easily be incorporated int this article, or prehaps the Jerry Holkins article. Any thoughts? Guest9999 (talk) 00:26, 31 December 2007 (UTC)]]
 * I agree. - Chardish (talk) 00:54, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The problem with that is that Epic Legends Of The Hierarchs: The Elemenstor Saga and Penny Arcade (webcomic) aren't really related in too many ways. I think it could, however, be a good idea to try merging it with the Jerry Holkins article. 144.134.97.152 (talk) 15:36, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
 * perhaps make it a part of the Jerry Holkins article as it's primarily related to him. harlock_jds (talk) 15:38, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree, merge it into the Jerry Holkins article. --Jedravent (talk) 01:31, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed, Holkins, but not PA proper. Panzer V Panther (talk) 20:09, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm going to be bold and go ahead with the merge to Jerry Holkins. Guest9999 (talk) 23:46, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I think that the web site stands as its own entity, like "Terradrive Live". Jerry Holkins came up with the web site, but its content is entirely created by an independant group.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.133.210.230 (talk) 21:17, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree with the merge proposal. It doesn't really seem like a stand-alone article. Alexwoods (talk) 16:12, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness
Should there be more information here? Also note that according to the game trailer, Tycho isn't the middle name for a "Jerold" but the first name and his middle is indeed "Erasmus". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.107.66.60 (talk) 08:43, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Gerald is Jerry Holkins' name. Tycho is the online persona. =) Panzer V Panther (talk) 20:10, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Bacon robots.jpg
Image:Bacon robots.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 17:47, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

IRL picture?
How is it that there's no real life picture of these guys? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 221.127.205.94 (talk) 10:24, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
 * There is. JuJube (talk) 10:34, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory
Is this really relevant information? It has nothing to do with the site in general, it's just something out of one of the strips or blog posts or something. And really, it's less of a theory than a fairly easy observation to make for yourself.

Merger proposal
The Jerry Holkins and Mike Krahulik articles just reiterate a lot of what is said in this article with a few added points. A merger could be easily done but I'm not going to be bold and do it myself because I'm at work and I've got a few computers to work on. But feel free to discuss. (>O_o)>Something X (talk) 14:41, 29 May 2008 (UTC)<(^_^<)
 * I would lean towards not merging the articles as this webcomic is just one of several entities that Mike and Jerry are actively associated with now. There's Child's Play, Greenhouse Games, Penny Arcade Expo and Rainslick Precipice of Darkness. While some of these are associated with the comic, others like Greenhouse and Child's Play are not.  If these articles are merged it would mean having the mentions of Mike and Jerry in subsequent articles discussing their projects refer to this article on the comic, which would not make sense.
 * To put it more succinctly and in Wikipedian terms, Mike and Jerry have grown to be distinctly notable outside of this webcomic, ergo they should remain in their own articles. LeilaniLad (talk) 01:03, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * They're too notable to merge. rootology  ( T ) 21:35, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Merger disapproval
While most of the information in their personal articles on the comic are stated, it is also necessary for the people to know their ages and other personal information, such as if they're married or if they have children, which they are and do. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arcai (talk • contribs) 18:27, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Comics B-Class Assessment required
This article needs the B-Class checklist filled in to remain a B-Class article for the Comics WikiProject. If the checklist is not filled in by 7th August this article will be re-assessed as C-Class. The checklist should be filled out referencing the guidance given at Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment/B-Class criteria. For further details please contact the Comics WikiProject. Comics-awb (talk) 17:14, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Banned parody?
The American Greetings parody was banned? By whom? 68.81.225.3 (talk) 13:25, 20 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I went ahead and changed the picture caption (which is what i assume this note was about).harlock_jds (talk) 14:11, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Very vague article
This article is teeming with inaccurate words, ("tends to be", "usually", "primarily"). Please be careful to avoid using these vague terms as they are put into an article as a fail safe against inaccurate information ("Well, sure it turns out I was wrong, but I only wrote 'tends' to be").

Actually, if there are no objections I think PA deserves a better article than this and I would like to volunteer some time to a well-researched and cited overhaul. Many of the facts seem years out of date as well. There is a plethora of information available on this comic and I'm sure this could be expanded to a FA-status page. LeilaniLad (talk) 01:25, 23 August 2008 (UTC)