Talk:People's Republic of Kampuchea

Article needs much attention, POV cleaning
1979-1989 is a very contested period in Cambodia and one where current leader were emerging, building their own consolidation of power (e.g. the then-minister of foreign affairs Hun Sen, Cheam Sim, etc.).

Anyone has the both the knowledge and neutrality to improve this article? One excellent source of information is 'Cambodia after the Khmer Rouge: Inside the politics of Nation Building' by Evan Gottesman.


 * I'm uncertain what the POV problem is in the article. The source you suggest has its own terrible POV problems in that it is blind to the nature of the Vietnamese occupation and is at the edge of being pro-Vietnamese. The government that Vietnam installed and that still rules Cambodia today is a Khmer Rouge government presided over by a Khmer Rouge military figure. It is not Pol Pot's Khme r rouge, but its still made up of Khmer Rouge. As far as I'm aware, the only people who consider the period contested were the supporters of Vietnam and defenders of their military occupation of Cambodia. If you want POV corrections to be made, your going to need to be much more specific about what you disagree with in the current article. 168.127.0.51 15:45, 5 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Of course I'm not suggesting we should only base the article on the book mentioned above, but was mainly suggesting this book as a good starting point because of its heavy use of old official documents (notes, minutes, written orders) from the PRK era. I think what you're saying is what a lot of people feel in Cambodia and contextually speaking, that feeling is very much understandable, but would really benefit if you could temper it and use a more neutral dialogue. PRK was definitively a Vietnamese sponsored regime maintained in power by Vietnamese troops, some of it's main leaders received political training in Vietnam, etc. One could label this scenario a disguised occupation and would probably be right. Furthermore, I'm not disputing the fact that lots of political leaders chosen by the Vietnamese before and after ousting the Khmer Rouge were former Khmer Rouge, and most of them are still remaining in power until today.
 * That being said, Wikipedia aims to achieve a neutral ground were facts can be written, sourced, and diverging opinions stated if necessary. All data written above should be fact checked and footnoted, and then - using a neutral language - this chunk of Cambodian history could become a good article in Wikipedia :o) NIRVn 13:21, 7 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I would like to see some references, at least, for the current article; it is difficult finding good sources for this period. I will try to follow up on the Gottesman book, above.  Can't find a middle ground until you read it for sure, ay? Pat Struthers 09:36, 7 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Reverted title back to People's Republic of Kampuchea to use NPOV page title...NIRVn 13:21, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Having read Gottesman, I feel sure that the article can be stripped of much POV and improved to show how the regime was constructed and what it's ideological outlook was. I may have a go at putting something together along these lines. What is there at the moment covers a lot about the nature of the PRK vs. KR, but not so much about domestic matters. manchester_me 02:38 9 November 2006

Books by Ben Kiernan, David Chandler and Michael Vickery are exemplary in their analysis of this period. All three have spent extensive perionds in-country with expert knowledge of the language and the political context of the time - viz. the IndoChinese Communist Party bureaucracy and its impact on post-KR reign. spkfilmSpkfilm 12:05, 10 April 2007 (UTC) 12:01, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it appropriate to refer to the "murderous Khmer Rouge" in regards to Wikipedia's neutral position. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.101.117.45 (talk) 00:11, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Separate
This article only needs informations about the government, there should be another article that discusses about the occupation. 75.28.66.154 (talk) 07:09, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

SOC
The PRK lasted until 1993, why did the State of Cambodia existed in 1989-1993? Did Cambodia had two names at that period? If not, the parts about the State of Cambodia should be put in a new article. 207.233.70.52 (talk) 16:58, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The State of Cambodia was the transitional, and largely ceremonial, shape or phase of the PRK. You cannot separate the PRK from the SOC as you would separate cream from milk. Making two separate articles would de-emphasize this political reality and confuse the reader.Xufanc (talk) 04:04, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Found some discrepancies
I've just begun translating the article into Italian (incidentally, I'm not skilled in Cambodian modern history) when I found some errors, e.g.

"[...] especially in the Eastern Zone after May 1975. In November, pro-Vietnamese Khmer Rouge leader Vorn Vet[6] led an unsuccessful coup d'état and was subsequently arrested, tortured and executed"

but in late 1977 Vorn Vet accompanied Pol Pot when he visited Bejing (it's even mentioned in [6], too bad!), he was purged in 1978. The "coup d'état of November 1978" was probably for the most part just a misleading fib by Ieng Sary, who told Vet committed suicide... (see Kiernan, AFAIR)

Even the "So Phim's Eastern Zone uprising" soon after was mostly a KR fib (see Kiernan, 1996): the Pol Pot's faction begun eroding his military-based power in 1976, they put under arrest some of his supporters when he went to China for medical treatments.

Moreover the paragraph which begins with "Despite the Vietnam-sponsored invasion[...]" seems frankly pro-Vietnamese POV, or maybe its relevance is much lower than its bad-looking: using references which appear less important and cannot be easily checked doesn't help, I mean. BTW the section "The Khmer Rouge directs its hostility against Vietnam" maybe needs more "incisiveness": there are many good references that speak of genocide against cambodian viets --Riccardo.fabris (talk) 00:31, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
 * The Vorn Vet paragraph was merely misplaced during cut and paste when I undertook the expansion of this article. Over two months have passed and I see no Italian translation.Xufanc (talk) 09:53, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Splitting the article ?
Shouldn't State of Cambodia, for the 1989-1992 period, be a separate article ? While the regime in that period did initially retain most of the politics of the People's republic of Kampuchea, the name change came with a constitutional change and the 1989-1992 era as a whole was distinct as a transitional period. Jean-Jacques Georges (talk) 15:35, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
 * It was essentially the same state. Changes were cosmetic. The transition, especially after the tactical abandonment of communist ideology in 1991, was dictated by necessity and survival of the rulers.Xufanc (talk) 09:54, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, I know, but since the period was marked by a constitutional change, a name change, and several important reforms like the end of single-party rule, the end of marxism-leninism as a state ideology and the reintroduction of buddhism as the national religion, it was not that cosmetic. Also, the transitional period might be important enough to consider a separate article (I'm just making a suggestion here). Jean-Jacques Georges (talk) 08:14, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I appreciate your suggestion and have considered splitting the article. I also considered (even more) splitting the Cambodian People's Party article and devote a separate article for the KPRP, its marxist predecessor. Definitely you are right, there is a contrast between the PRK and the SOC, especially after the abandonment of the marxist-leninist state ideology in 1991. And yet... they were essentially the same regime, so splitting them is not easy without giving a distorted impression to the reader who would miss the essential continuum. Perhaps it could be done carefully, linking both articles where necessary, with a proper conclusion in one and a matching introduction in the other. Unfortunately I don't know whether I have time for that. Xufanc (talk) 09:35, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Infobox Flag(s)
Is it just me or do I find the use of two flags side by side in the infobox doesn't look right? None of the other historical country pages have two flags shown like that. Usually just the last one or the one that was used the longest. StalwartUK (talk) 18:38, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I have worked out a solution. - Xufanc (talk) 06:21, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

When
"The government of Sweden, however, had to change its vote in the U.N. and to withdraw support for the Khmer Rouge after a large number of Swedish citizens wrote letters to their elected representatives demanding a policy change towards Pol Pot's regime" When? What year? "Had to"? 86.128.192.206 (talk) 15:09, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Help with stub: Kingdom of Cambodia (1975-76)
Hello, I noticed there was a gap in the former states of Cambodia so I created Kingdom of Cambodia (1975-76); any help in expanding this stub would be much appreciated. Cheers, walk victor falktalk 04:41, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:54, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Anthem of PR Kampuchea - ចម្រៀងនៃសាធារណរដ្ឋប្រជាមានិតកម្ពុជា.ogg

"Puppet state"???
It was written in the infobox that PRK is the "Puppet state of and occupied by the Socialist Republic of Vietnam" Firstly, it is not listed as a puppet state in the puppet state's wiki page. And I think that it is pretty extreme and a little bit of biased (?!)

Should we at least modify or remove this part?! Hwi.padam (talk) 22:50, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:52, 9 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Kh-89.ogg