Talk:Perfect 10 (gymnastics)

Perfect 10's
Should Nadia Comăneci be listed with the year 1976 or with the year 1972? I believe that 1976 is the correct year for her perfect 10 scores ... but maybe something else happened in 1972 that I am unaware of. Does anyone know for sure? Thanks. (64.252.68.102 (talk) 16:33, 15 February 2010 (UTC))


 * Oops. Clarityfiend (talk) 20:38, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

1924 Summer Olympics
From this article ---> Gymnastics at the 1924 Summer Olympics – Men's rope climbing ... I counted 22 men who obtained perfect 10 scores. This article, however, states 24 men. Did I miss something? Thanks. (64.252.68.102 (talk) 22:07, 15 February 2010 (UTC))


 * That checks out. You do realize you can fix these things yourself, don't you? Clarityfiend (talk) 10:48, 16 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for making the edits. Yes, I am well aware that I can change these numbers myself.  However, I only briefly scanned the material ... and I did not read it all word-for-word.  So, when I noticed the discrepancies, I wanted to err on the side of caution, making sure that I did not "miss" anything.  Also, you seemed quite authoritative on the topic at hand, so I thought that there was more information you were aware of, that I was not aware of ... as opposed to a simple typo or calculation error.  In any event, thanks for the edits ... and thanks for beginning this article.  Good job!  Much appreciated.   (64.252.68.102 (talk) 15:42, 16 February 2010 (UTC))


 * You give me too much credit (I have no particular expertise in the Olympics), but I thank you for the compliment. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:56, 16 February 2010 (UTC)


 * You're welcome. The compliment was not only directed toward your Olympic expertise, but also for the fact that you took the bull by the horns and started a good — and much needed — article.  Thanks again.   (64.252.68.102 (talk) 00:18, 17 February 2010 (UTC))

1924 Summer Olympics again
Neither the rope climbing nor the sidehorse vault at the 1924 Olympics belong in a list of perfect 10s. The Official Olympic Report says, at p. 356, that the rope climbing was scored by time only; a score of ten was awarded for times between 7.2 and 9 seconds, and a score of 0 for times over 12 seconds, but these scores were not relevant to the award of medals. That the contestants were classified by time can be seen in the rope climbing article. Therefore there was nothing "perfect" about a score of 10. It is true that Albert Séguin scored a 10 on the sidehorse vault, but this is nowhere referred to as a "perfect 10". The report says, at p. 359, that "the scoring was generous – only two marks below 7 – and yet only a single maximum was granted, the French Seguin" (emphasis added). Clearly it would not have been considered remarkable for more than one 10 to be awarded, so it was not considered to represent "perfection". The idea of a perfect 10 only dates from Comăneci's scores in 1976. It may be valid to back-date it to Vera Caslavska's 10 in the 1967 European Championship, because that created a sensation, but not to Séguin's in 1924, because that did not. I am taking out the rope-climbing reference immediately, because that is an egregious error. I will take out Séguin's in a few days if nobody provides a compelling reason for its retention. Scolaire (talk) 14:03, 26 October 2015 (UTC)


 * I think that a score of 10 – in the 1924 rope-climbing and side-horse vault competitions – means "the athlete achieved the highest score possible, a perfect score". It does not mean "the athlete climbed the rope perfectly" and/or "Séguin performed on the side-horse vault perfectly".  A score of 10 is a score of 10.  We should not be "discriminating" about which are "real or valid or perfect".  And which are not.  That is my opinion.  Thanks.  Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:31, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

Re-write
I have collapsed the two sections dealing with the scoring changes into one greatly reduced section, and added what I felt was sorely missing: a history section that includes pre-1976 scoring, the fact that a 10 was considered unattainable, Comaneci's first 10 and some of the subsequent 10s, including the first man. I have re-written the lead to reflect the new content. I have also uploaded the iconic image of Comaneci posing beside the "1.00" scoreboard, with a fair use rationale. Scolaire (talk) 23:44, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

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Why was this section removed?
The article stated: 22 men at the 1924 Summer Olympics, all in rope-climbing, with one Albert Séguin getting a second 10 in the side vault. Why was that removed? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 04:49, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I've put it back. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:50, 5 February 2019 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I have two thoughts.  (1) In this article, should we list the 22 men by name?   Also:  (2) The introduction paragraph of the article states: The first person to score a perfect 10 at the Olympic Games was Romanian Nadia Comăneci, at the 1976 Games in Montreal. Other women who accomplished this feat at the Olympics include Nellie Kim, also in 1976, Mary Lou Retton in 1984, and Daniela Silivaș and Yelena Shushunova in 1988. The first man to score a perfect 10 was Alexander Dityatin, at the 1980 Olympics in Moscow.  Now, that the 1924 athletes have been re-added to the list, the article's lead paragraphs do not really make sense.  Thanks.   Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 21:11, 8 February 2019 (UTC)


 * I've addressed (2). As for (1), I don't think it's really necessary to list the rope climbers. If anybody is that interested, they can click on the rope climbing link. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:49, 9 February 2019 (UTC)