Talk:Pershing Square Capital Management

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 11 January 2021 and 20 March 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jc4382.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 02:15, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Pershing Square Foundation
There's no reason to add information on Ackman's private foundation to this page, even if they have similar names. This is besides the point that the additions were made without reliable sources. If there is a connection with the foundation and the investment firm, then that should be demonstrated and well-sourced when adding. FuriouslySerene (talk) 18:34, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
 * You have been reverted on this matter by two different parties, so could you stop nit-picking and bring something constructive to the table? Where is it supposed to go then? In a one-paragraph article which will end up being proposed for merger with the hedgefund? --Midas02 (talk) 03:53, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I originally reverted FuriouslySerene because I too thought the content was notable and warranted inclusion but after hearing his arguments on my talk page, I don't see any real connection between Pershing Square Foundation and Pershing Square Capital Management, besides Ackman. Do you have any RS making any relationship between the two entities? I wasn't able to find any. Meatsgains (talk) 04:01, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
 * In the Bill Ackman article. Where it already is covered in some detail. It has nothing to do the investment firm, and until you can show some connection, I am unsure why you are adding it here. Particularly as you are adding it in the "Company history" section - it's a different company. FuriouslySerene (talk) 04:03, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
 * That's a constructive reply. I wasn't aware it was mentioned there, so that would be a good place to park it. Next time, try discussing before becoming agressive with people. You have previously been cautioned on your attitude, and I was about to report you again myself. --Midas02 (talk) 04:16, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
 * If you think I did anything wrong here, feel free to report me. I don't think I did anything wrong here. I reverted your edit with 3 reasons (and assumed good faith on your part), and I also later posted here on the talk page. You just went ahead and reverted without discussing here first, and your only explanation was "The foundation website is the source." An editor with your experience is well aware that a link to a foundation's own website is not a reliable source, and you anyways ignored the two other points I made. You only bothered discussing here once I posted to your talk page (which I really did not want to do). I'm sure you were trying to improve the page and I'm sorry if I offended you. But I don't appreciate you lecturing me and suggesting my other comments were not "constructive." FuriouslySerene (talk) 04:39, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Leucadia National
Hello! Francis here, representing Pershing Square Capital Management. Given my conflict of interest, I'll be sharing suggestions on discussion pages instead of editing directly. I'd like to submit an edit request to correct text in the "Company history" section. Currently, the section starts with:
 * In 2004, with $54 million in funding from his personal funds and former business partner Leucadia National, Ackman started Pershing Square Capital Management.

Issue: Leucadia National is a company, not a person. The source used as a citation says, "In 1995, just three years out of business school, Ackman teamed up with Leucadia National, an insurance and real estate company, to make one of just a handful of serious bids for Rockefeller Center when it went on the sales block… In 2004, Ackman started his career anew by launching Pershing Square Capital Management with $54 million from himself and Leucadia National." I propose replacing the text with the following: Could someone please update the article's text on my behalf? Thank you! FMatPSCM (talk) 22:55, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Ackman started Pershing Square Capital Management in 2004 with a seed investment from Leucadia National.


 * @FMatPSCM I have updated the article with some modifications to the phrase. I'll let you read over it and if you have any more requests, let me know. Kline • talk to me! • contribs 02:18, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

Request to correct text
I would like to submit another edit request to correct text in the "Herbalife" section. Currently, the section says: "In March 2015, U.S. District Judge Dale Fischer dismissed a suit filed by Herbalife investors alleging the company is operating an illegal pyramid scheme.

Issue: This is not accurate. A California Judge dismissed this case against Herbalife in March 2015, but the case was regarding a lack of disclosure. It was not a case to determine if, or if not, Herbalife was a pyramid scheme.

This Reuters source explains, "U.S. District Judge Dale Fischer in Los Angeles, who dismissed a version of the complaint in March, said on Tuesday the Oklahoma Firefighters Pension and Retirement System did not show the defendants defrauded shareholders by concealing the company's inability to track retail sales... 'Herbalife openly disclosed that it was susceptible to legal challenge precisely because its practices occupy the gray area between legitimate multi-level marketing company and illegal pyramid scheme,' Fischer wrote." For these reasons, I propose replacing the current text with:
 * In March 2015, U.S. District Judge Dale Fischer dismissed a suit filed by Herbalife investors who claimed the company defrauded shareholders by concealing the company's ability to track retail sales. The case did not address whether Herbalife was an illegal pyramid scheme and Judge Fischer did not comment on those allegations.

Can someone please update the article on my behalf? Thank you. FMatPSCM (talk) 23:40, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
 * , it seems to me that the current wording is accurate. The "dismissed a version of the complaint in March" is the pyramid scheme one, and the one with the Oklahoma Firefighters Pension and Retirement System is a seperate one. Reuters has a seperate piece covering the March case here. ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me! 21:21, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you for reviewing, but I disagree. Both Reuters stories, the 3/18/15 article, and the 7/29/15 article, are about the same case. Both articles list the same case number, 14-02850, in the last line. The July article provides more context than the March article, so I believe it should be added as a source and noted on the Wiki page that the judge dismissed the complaint and said that the plaintiff "did not show the defendants defrauded shareholders by concealing the company's inability to track retail sales," and that the case did not address whether Herbalife was an illegal pyramid scheme and the judge did not comment on those allegations. FMatPSCM (talk) 21:34, 29 April 2024 (UTC) moved from below section. ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me! 22:06, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
 * @FMatPSCM: Hi, I see what you mean, sorry for missing it. Do you have a proposed replacement with the new info, or is your previous request still what you want added in? Thanks. ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me! 22:08, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for taking another look. I welcome an update to the article based on my previously suggested text. Thanks! FMatPSCM (talk) 19:49, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
 * @FMatPSCM: I have reviewed these proposed changes and suggest that you go ahead and make the proposed changes to the page.  ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me!  20:42, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the endorsement. I appreciate your permission but I am not comfortable editing the article directly. Would you be willing to update the article on my behalf? If not, could the request be reopened for further review instead of declined? Thanks again FMatPSCM (talk) 18:31, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
 * @FMatPSCM: I've replaced it, but changed the date to July as the article states that the judge said on Tuesday. I'm also a bit dubious about the second sentence, as it is a claim from PSCM. Fischer did mention it, stating:  ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me!  19:42, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

"Pershing Square Tontine Holdings"
I would like to submit another request for this article. Currently, there are two sections dedicated to Pershing Square Tontine Holdings. Here are links: I propose combining these two sections. Also, the content that implies PSTH is still active should be edited. For example, "PSTH is currently the largest SPAC to IPO to date" and "PSTH has a unique". I would appreciate an update to the tense here. Can User:Kline or another editor update the article? FMatPSCM (talk) 21:37, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Pershing_Square_Capital_Management
 * Pershing_Square_Capital_Management
 * ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me! 21:27, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Text correction and update
Hello again! I'd like to submit another edit request to correct and update existing text. First, the article says, "In October 2014, Ackman launched a UK-based closed-end fund, Pershing Square Holdings, on the London Stock Exchange." This is not accurate. Pershing Square Holdings is incorporated in Guernsey listed on the Euronext Amsterdam in 2014. Sources: CNBC, The New York Times, Reuters. It also commenced trading on the London Stock Exchange in 2017. Sources: Express. Does someone mind correcting this sentence? Additionally, the article says, "As of August 2012 the fund held beneficial ownership of 7.7 percent of General Growth's stock." This is outdated, as PSCM sold General Growth Partners in February 2014. Sources: Bloomberg and The Wall Street Journal. Could someone add an update along the lines of "General Growth Partners repurchased PSCM's remaining stake in February 2014."? Thanks for considering these updates. FMatPSCM (talk) 16:36, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Corrected London Stock Exchange to Amsterdam Stock Exchange. I'm going to leave out the London Stock Exchange for now, since Express is listed as unreliable on WP:RSP.
 * Updated bit about General Growth as requested. ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me! 20:07, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Netflix
Hello! I'd like to submit a request to update the section about Netflix, which references Pershing Square's investment letter when Pershing opened its position, but does not reference the investment letter when Pershing sold the Netflix stake. Additionally, the section says Pershing responded to the stock's decline by selling, which is inaccurate. Pershing sold its stake because it lost confidence in its ability to predict the company's future prospects with a sufficient degree of certainty. From the investor letter: Deadline Hollywood (source) said, "Bill Ackman's Pershing Square Holdings, which made a high-profile purchase of Netflix shares in January after a dip in the stock price, said it sold the stake today, having 'lost confidence in our ability to predict the company's future prospects with a sufficient degree of certainty.'" Could someone please correct this section? I propose replacing "In April, Netflix stock fell by 35%, and Ackman responded by selling his entire stake in the company" with "In April, Pershing Square sold its stake, citing a loss of confidence in being able to predict Netflix's future prospects", or similar. Thanks in advance for helping to update the page on my behalf. FMatPSCM (talk) 16:08, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * "... we have lost confidence in our ability to predict the company's future prospects with a sufficient degree of certainty. Based on management's track record, we would not be surprised to see Netflix continue to be a highly successful company and an excellent investment from its current market value."
 * "... we believe the dispersion of outcomes has widened to a sufficiently large extent that it is challenging for the company to meet our requirements for a core holding."

Air Products
Hello again. I'd like to submit another suggestion for the "Investment history" section, this time to add content about Air Products & Chemicals since Pershing held a board seat. I propose the following addition:
 * In 2013, Pershing Square acquired a $2.2 billion stake in Air Products & Chemicals, and nominated Matt Paull to serve on the company's board. Pershing Square sold its stake in 2017. According to a letter cited by Reuters, during Pershing Square’s four-and-half-year investment, APD delivered a 104.7% total shareholder return.

Thanks for considering this update. FMatPSCM (talk) 16:05, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Forbes contributor
Hello again! I'd like to propose another article improvement. The Company history section says: Ackman has been known to hire people outside of traditional finance backgrounds; for instance, his professionals have included a former fly fishing guide, a former tennis pro, and "a man whom he met in a cab". I propose removal of this text and source, per WP:FORBESCON at Reliable sources/Perennial sources ("Most content on Forbes.com is written by contributors or 'Senior Contributors' with minimal editorial oversight, and is generally unreliable.")

Thanks for the continued assistance. FMatPSCM (talk) 14:06, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


 * ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me! 19:14, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Platform Specialty Products Corporation
I'd like to propose another article improvement on behalf of PSCM. The Platform Specialty Products Corporation section does not acknowledge that Pershing Square closed the position in 2019. Therefore, I propose the following update:
 * Pershing Square sold its stake in Element Solutions (formerly Platform Specialty Products) in 2019.

Thanks for considering this update. FMatPSCM (talk) 14:08, 14 June 2024 (UTC)