Talk:Persian cat/Archive 1

=2008–2011=

Assessment
Assessed article-- Itemirus  Talk Page  21:01, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Assessor did not mention that the assessment was "C" class, as visible in the talk page banners above. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 15:59, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Average lifespan missing from article
Lifespan of these cats would be nice EVERYBODY love persians they have the cutest faces--81.132.183.112 (talk) 16:10, 11 January 2009 (UTC).... [[Media:Cat]]

In popular culture
The article British Shorthair has lots of popular examples, and Crookshanks from Harry Potter should be listed! --Penalty Killah Jw21 08:05, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Couronne Persian
I don't think this is an actual breed of Persian, but more of a cruel result of breeding. Couronne seemed to be a cat breeder, but the website couronne.net does not exist anymore, and the image seemed to used to be linked to the site. A google search seemed to indicate a number of breeds of persians with mixed results. Can anybody shine some light on this? --Nomegustan
 * I don't think the question is whether it is a cruel example or not. It has no encyclopedic value, but it is 100% advertisement. a Couronne persian is not a special type of a persian cat but it is a persian of a specific breeder, pure advertisement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.154.98.67 (talk • contribs)
 * I've seen Couronne Persians at cat shows recently. You are correct, Couronne is a cattery name, not a subtype of Persian cat. 69.12.131.206 21:46, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Teacup Persians?
I saw an article recently about T cup persian cats. I can't find any info on these. Anyone have any idea? I know T cups are smaller than normal cats but...persians are already small. How big are these things.
 * Teacup-size Persians vary in definition from breeder to breeder, as there is no widely accepted standard. The most inclusive standard I've seen is less than 5.5 lbs for females and less than 8 lbs or males. Other standards talk about 4 lbs for females and 5.5 lbs for males. As miniaturization in cats is not an exact science (the genes are still fairly poorly understood), a kitten which looks like a teacup may end up normal-sized (on the low end, usually) as an adult.--Ramdrake 23:28, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

In refrence to the Teacup Persians/ Here is my experience with Persians that goes back over 20 years. They used to be called the runt of the litter, the kitten that didn't quite grow as big as the others. We like to refer to them as the Tinnies. My opinion is that breeding them back and forth to each other to make a really small Persian dilutes the breed, this can cause health problems, fragile cats, and unhealthy kittens. Why mess with a beautiful and well structured Persian to obtain a week fragile cat. I hope this help you with your question. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.220.248.155 (talk) 02:56, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Orieal Persian
I think this image is horrible and the size is bigger than the necessary, the older one was much better. And the first lines of the text has been cut by the image. Do not to replace pictures already in the article with a picture of their favorite pet. --Daniel Leite

Origins
The text of the article says: "...reputed to be from Persia (Iran)..."

Why reputed? It's a fact. The Persian cat is ubiquitous in Iran and can be seen digging garbage cans for food in city alleys and streets there everywhere. Theyre indigenous.

In Iran, the "Persian cat" is called "Gorbeh Yazdi" (since non-Persian regular breeds also exist).

My mother had one once when she was little in Shiraz. He was named "Montesquieu" by my grandpa. My grandma however threw the Cat out back into the streets because he would pee on the Persian rugs of the house.

I became friends with one myself when I was a kid in Isfahan once. I called her "khaleh fery". She was a full size beauty. And she ate one of my Turkey chicks we were raising in our backyard. But she gave birth to two lovely kittens. I tried raising them, but they had to eventually go back to the alley because my mom would not tolerate the fur balls and hair on the rugs in the house (oh history). When I moved to America, I had to leave them both to tend for themselves. One kitten got run over by a car, and the other was killed by mad kids in the street, I was told later on.

So it's not "reputed". The govt of Iran even printed a series of stamps comemmorating the types of Iranian cats.. The "Persian Cat" is seen below left.--Zereshk 08:31, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Main photo - Let's discuss and reach consensus!
I changed the main photo, choosing the most professional quality image from the gallery choices. If this bothers anyone, please post here so that we can come to a consensus. --NightSky 15:42, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * There seems to be a disagreement regarding the primary photo used in this article. As a vet, I find the characteristics of the black smoke persian more illustrative of the breed. Let's try to go beyond voting for a pet and reach consensus in the best interest of the article. So far we have two editors who have given their reasons for electing the black persian photo. (I have no knowledge of either cat or owner under discussion, btw. Would ask that other editors declare a [COI|WP:COI] if it exists.) --VeggieVet 13:22, 30 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Sounds good. My reasoning was the quality of the photo and the fact that the other photo depicts an unbrushed/disheveled looking cat (who is quite sweet to be sure!). While it's true these cats are hard to keep groomed, the main photo should be of a show quality cat. Other opinions are welcomed here! --NightSky 18:48, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Strange isn't it that ENPCC created that account on 3/21 and just uploaded the disputed persian picture (but has done nothing else). Then after that, NightSky, who had not been active before, on that same day decided to become active and changed the picture. Suddenly, when faced with the changes back to the better, older picture. the VeggieVet account appears to reaffirm everything that "NightSky" says (while created that day) - even to the point of wanting to "restore" a picture that didn't appear on W at the time (and was therefor hidden). Yes, everyone crawls through the archives of each page to see what might have existed before (not). Anyone want to bet that the IP addresses of NightSky, VeggieVet and ENPCC (perhaps the PC is "persian cat" - shall we say a targetted purpose) are the same? I always Assume Good Faith, but not when there appears to be none on the other side. BTW, speak about "disheveled". Take a look at the picture you're trying to install. Terrible! Ungroomed. Unprofessional.


 * Stop posting multiple pictures of your pet and your breeding operation to this article. Also, sign your posts. --VeggieVet 04:49, 4 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I have absolutely no knowledge of the other editors who prefer the black smoke, but I invite them to comment here. I now understand that the silver one is your cat and you are also linking to your cattery (I removed the link, it is against policy so please don't put it back). If you don't like this current picture, find another of a cat that you don't own, one that is more representative of the breed. I will look for others as well. Thanks for communicating. --NightSky 16:00, 2 April 2

I think that the photo of the black smoke Persian is just fine. It is obviously a show Persian, judging from the large eyes, symmetrical features, and tiny ears and nose. There's nothing wrong with using a photo of such a cat here, even though most Persian cats don't look as good as this black smoke one. 69.12.131.206 21:41, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I've added a picture of a black persian kitten. Take a look and see of you think.MarkMarek 06:14, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * He's a lovely kitten, Mark, but he's not Persian - see para further down the page (titled Photo Removed) for the reasonings. You could instead upload the photo to pages for DLH and black cats. Plutonium27 (talk) 13:27, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Agh, we want a picture of a Persian. It must look like a Persian,too, so it shouldn't matter what colour it is as long as it is a Persian. Rђαηα (talk) 17:59, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Layout
I moved the silver persian's picture next to the text about the Sterling and Silver Persians. I hope this new layout, with the more characteristic persian on the right and the silver on the left, is agreeable! Again, I don't know either of these cats - just trying to improve the article! --VeggieVet 08:33, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

I notice here "VeggieVet" says "I don't know either of these cats", but yet uploaded the pic in question and put the license on it. A flat out lie. It is clear that VeggieVet = NightSky = ENPCC and this person is a pathological liar. All "contributions" from VeggieVet and NightSky should be examined with a fine-tooth comb. Note they also lied about me "linking to my cattery". I have no connection to a cattery and never linked to one. VeggieVet, you need to explain where you got that picture from if "you don't know" the cat. It looks professionally taken - perhaps you stole it.

Images
Of course, there is no policy that literally dictates an exact ratio of images to content. But when this small article has a large gallery of breed varieties, images that are just another color variation belong where they do not crowd what little text content there is. If not, then you get into the argument about why should that particular photo be there and not another from the gallery? The reason the gallery is necessary is make the article look like less than a bit of uncited pet advice and peacock words next to loads of images. It creates a place to showcase all the varieties of the breed while still maintain readability. And I don't think I need to remind you that just because an image or sentence has stood for such-and-such a time in an article does not make a solid argument for inclusion. There are hundreds of stubs that need cleanup but have gone ignored for a very long time. Maintaining the sorry status quo is not improving articles. If you would rather have that photo (it is better comp) of the color then simply replace it in the gallery or even make it the infobox photo and place the current one in the gallery. VanTucky 23:10, 16 May 2007 (UTC)


 * You're correct on most points, except that I would consider the fact that a certain feature has stood a long time a good reason to discuss its change or removal before going ahead and removing it. I also appreciate your changing the wikify tag for a reference tag, which is a lot more self-evident. I would also find self-evident the removal of redundant images from the gallery either when they are redundant to other images in the gallery or when they are redundant with images elsewhere on the page. I would suggest you raise a discussion whenever removing other pictures. I have posted a fuller comment on your talk page; I would appreciate if you could respond whenever you get a chance. --Ramdrake 23:23, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Himalayans
Mentioning the Himalayans as a variety of Persians without mentioning the Siamese contribution seems odd. Of course, we have "himies" and they do seem more like Persians than Siamese. The solid-colored ones would show as Persians if they were shown and we wouldn't know they were himies except we know their mom because we see her every day. Will in New Haven
 * The section now mentions the Siamese stock, and links to the main article on that breed, which discusses their ancestry in detail. — SMcCandlish  Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 15:49, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Photo Removed from Gallery
I've removed the photo of the "5 month old black Persian kitten" from the gallery, as the cat clearly was not a Persian. The ears are way too large, the characteristic nose bridge indent was absent and the coat appeared not to have the necessary fullness with ruff : it just didn't look like a Doll Face/Traditional, although is a pretty black DLH nonetheless. I contacted the photo's 'owner' (on German Wiki) with these concerns, who has not replied. (Of course, my black Doll Face Persian tom would make a lovely example but I've no scanner and anyway he's too prone to suddenly start licking his bum or lolloping off the table whenever the camera gets pointed his way). Plutonium27 (talk) 18:01, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

There is a difference between the traditional and the modern Persian, you know that, right? Not all Persians have the "doll-like" face. And the comment about how your cat would be a lovely example is not very necessary....Rђαηα (talk) 17:56, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Media
A new section detailing Persians seen in media would be nice- any thoughts? --Catsrule27 (talk) 18:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Ugly page
All this "citation needed" crap and the ugly main picture makes it look like crap. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.97.119.249 (talk) 12:34, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * See WP:Verifiability. It is far more important that unreliable information be flagged as such and fixed than made to look pretty but misleading. — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒ ʕ(Õلō)ˀ  Contribs. 15:47, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Possible vandalism
Over last month about 36 edits have been made by just 1 user. Someone please check the inserted/deleted content 78.131.137.50 (talk) 14:21, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Don' be coy, my dear Ragdoll editor. --Dodo bird (talk) 22:44, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, now I remember You... I see You've gone into revert war again, with 2 users this time. This is sad. 78.131.137.50 (talk) 04:01, 25 October 2009 (UTC)