Talk:Personal computer/Archive 6

External links modified
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I have just modified 7 external links on Personal computer. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121124182610/http://iprinet.kiev.ua/gf/mir.htm to http://www.iprinet.kiev.ua/gf/mir.htm
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9111341
 * Added archive https://archive.is/20030210111221/http://www03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/pc/pc_1.html to http://www03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/pc/pc_1.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141214131822/http://www.sinclairzx.com/about-us.html to http://www.sinclairzx.com/about-us.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120606003537/http://www.jeremyreimer.com/total_share.html to http://www.jeremyreimer.com/total_share.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090226214405/https://mr.pricegrabber.com/Netbook_Trends_and_SolidState_Technology_January_2009_CBR.pdf to https://mr.pricegrabber.com/Netbook_Trends_and_SolidState_Technology_January_2009_CBR.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100104211518/http://www.linux.org/info/index.html to http://www.linux.org/info/index.html

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Improving an existing Wikipedia article
Update on article improvements-

Wikipedia article- Personal Computer

6Th paragraph under the History section- I added a reliable reference for a reliable x86 definition in the paragraph here, reference [1]-

By the early 1970s, people in academic or research institutions had the opportunity for single-person use of a computer system in interactive mode for extended durations, although these systems would still have been too expensive to be owned by a single person. Early personal computers—generally called microcomputers—were often sold in a kit form and in limited volumes, and were of interest mostly to hobbyists and technicians. Minimal programming was done with toggle switches to enter instructions, and output was provided by front panel lamps. Practical use required adding peripherals such as keyboards, computer displays, disk drives, and printers. Micral N was the earliest commercial, non-kit microcomputer based on a microprocessor, the Intel 8008. It was built starting in 1972, and few hundred units were sold. This had been preceded by the Datapoint 2200 in 1970, for which the Intel 8008 had been commissioned, though not accepted for use. The CPU design implemented in the Datapoint 2200 became the basis for x86 architecture[1] used in the original IBM PC and its descendants.[2]

This is the reference- Baumann, A. (2017). Hardware is the new Software. Hot Topics in Operating Systems (HotOS), 132-137. Retrieved from https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/baumann-hotos17.pdf

Next, I re-wrote this section, so it did not sound like it was selling products for IBM and Apple-

The original said-

IBM PC compatible computers use an x86-compatible microprocessor, manufactured by Intel, AMD, VIA Technologies or Transmeta. Apple Macintosh computers were initially built with the Motorola 680x0 family of processors, then switched to the PowerPC series; in 2006, they switched to x86-compatible processors made by Intel.

My unbiased, non-promotional re-written version-

A large number of computers today are suited to run an x86-compatible microprocessor manufactured by Intel, AMD, or VIA Technologies.

Here is the Wikipedia version from the website-

Original version-

Processor

The central processing unit (CPU) is a part of a computer that executes instructions of a software program. In newer PCs, the CPU contains over a million transistors in one integrated circuit chip called the microprocessor. In most cases, the processor plugs directly into the motherboard. The processor chip may have a heat sink and a fan attached for cooling. IBM PC compatible computers use an x86-compatible microprocessor, manufactured by Intel, AMD, VIA Technologies or Transmeta. Apple Macintosh computers were initially built with the Motorola 680x0 family of processors, then switched to the PowerPC series; in 2006, they switched to x86-compatible processors made by Intel.

My re-written version-

The central processing unit (CPU) is a part of a computer that executes instructions of a software program. In newer PCs, the CPU contains over a million transistors in one integrated circuit chip called the microprocessor. In most cases, the processor plugs directly into the motherboard. The processor chip may have a heat sink and a fan attached for cooling. A large number of computers today[1] are suited to run an x86-compatible microprocessor[2] manufactured by Intel, AMD, or VIA Technologies.

References added/used Baumann, A. (2017). Hardware is the new Software. Hot Topics in Operating Systems (HotOS), 132-137. Retrieved from https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/baumann-hotos17.pdf Weidendorfer J. (2011) Intel Core Microarchitecture, x86 Processor Family. In: Padua D. (eds) Encyclopedia of Parallel Computing. Springer, Boston, MA — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lchollingsworth (talk • contribs) 18:37, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

Article chosen for evaluation and improvements- Personal computer The dialogue box for this article mentions that it needs additional citations for verification. My plan is to review the article and post any additional citations required in their appropriate place. In particular I will concentrate on the Applications section as it is in dire need of citations that go to reliable sources. The article also requires some reorganization. On the talk page for this article the to-do- list mentions that it needs the x86-compatible microprocessor material in the Processor section to be reviewed for accuracy, and to remove the inappropriate text included. I will review this section and double check the references for reliability and possibly remove what is not applicable to the articles topic.

Bibliography I will use for article improvements

1. HSIAO, H., et al. International Journal of High Speed Computing, vol. 10, no. 04, 1999, pp. 427-446, eds.a.ebscohost.com/eds/pdfviewer/pdfviewer? vid=4&sid=a12d6134-3a1b-483d-b826-3236019ac060%40sessionmgr4007. Accessed 4 Apr. 2018.

2. Anjum, M., & Budgen, D. (2017). PLOS ONE, 12(5), e0176936. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0176936

3. Baumann, A. (2016). Workshop on Hot Topics in Operating Systems, 16, 1-8. Retrieved from https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/wp- content/uploads/2017/05/baumann-hotos17.pdf

4. Weik M.H. (2000) software system. In:. Springer, Boston, MA

5. Kinser, J. M. (2015). . San Rafael, CA: Morgan & Claypool Publishers.

6. Garrison, B. (1999). . World Communication, 28(4), 105-108. Retrieved from http://eds.a.ebscohost.com/eds/pdfviewer/pdfviewer?vid=3&sid=4e359906-f36c-4a94-ad9d-4da1a6151d2b%40sessionmgr4006

Lchollingsworth (talk) 21:15, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Week 8 & 9- Continuing article edits and improvements for Personal Computer

This week I chose to work on something that was identified in Editing Wikipedia as suggested from the coursework this week at Wikiedu.org. A checklist for Wikipedia articles on page 15 suggest on one line to make links between Wikipedia articles to the one I am working on improving. I did this by linking 4 different Wikipedia articles to the Personal Computer article.

First, I linked the articles,

History of Computing- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_computing, and,

Firmware- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firmware,

then I linked the articles,

Mobile Computing- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_computing, and,

Stan Frankel- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stan_Frankel. Lchollingsworth (talk) 17:38, 29 April 2018 (UTC)


 * That's pretty odd way to list refs. Dicklyon (talk) 02:33, 9 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Wonderful. The sales figures end with 2010, which makes them quite old. In addition that paragraph is desparate for conversion to a graph. Nick Beeson (talk) 22:05, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

Week 9- Continuing writing improvements for Personal Computer
Week 9- Continuing writing improvements for Personal Computer This week I rewrote a section of the Personal Computer article. Below is the original work from the article- Desktop computer[edit]

Main article: Desktop computer

A Dell OptiPlex desktop computer

Prior to the widespread usage of PCs, a computer that could fit on a desk was remarkably small, leading to the "desktop" nomenclature. More recently, the phrase usually indicates a particular style of computer case. Desktop computers come in a variety of styles ranging from large vertical tower cases to small models which can be tucked behind an LCD monitor. In this sense, the term "desktop" refers specifically to a horizontally oriented case, usually intended to have the display screen placed on top to save desk space. Most desktop computers have an external display screen and an external keyboard, which are typically plugged into the computer case.

This is the rewritten work, the 2nd paragraph- (I added links in the part I rewrote) Desktop computer[edit]

Main article: Desktop computer

A Dell OptiPlex desktop computer

Prior to the widespread usage of PCs, a computer that could fit on a desk was remarkably small, leading to the "desktop" nomenclature. More recently, the phrase usually indicates a particular style of computer case. Desktop computers come in a variety of styles ranging from large vertical tower cases to small models which can be tucked behind an LCD monitor.

The term "desktop" typically refers to a computer with a vertically aligned computer case that holds the systems hardware components such as the motherboard, processor chip, other internal operating parts. Desktop computers have an external monitor with a display screen and an external keyboard, which are plugged into USB ports on the back of the computer case. Desktop computers are popular for home and business computing applications as they allow the user to have multiple monitors, allowing them to perform work on each one simultaneously.Lchollingsworth (talk) 21:55, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Other countries
This is a one sided view of the pc world and ignores the work done by European countries in particular Egoli (talk) 01:13, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, left off tag. EgoliEgoli (talk) 01:16, 8 June 2018 (UTC) Egoli (talk) 01:16, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't say it's intentional, just a lack of interest. Is there any reason why you can't help with it? ~ Dissident93 (talk) 20:10, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

But what's it FOR?
As often is the case, we've fallen into a detailed description of escapement mechanisms and clasp designs without any explanation as to why you'd need a wristwatch.

This article should talk about the *effects* of personal computers, the impact - we've got tons of really specific stuff on how to program the interrupt controller on a Model 5160. Social impact -social media, the use of the Web to replace everything form the post office to dating services, e-commerce, URLs are the 1-800 numbers of the 21st century, the common side of Mum, Dad, Junior and Princess all bent over their individual screens instead of talking to each other.

The "personal computing" article in my ancient "Encyclopedia of Computer Science" spends more time talking about this aspect than our present article, and it's from 1993! That's Year 2 of the Web. That's FIVE YEARS BEFORE GOOGLE! --Wtshymanski (talk) 22:25, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

Android Linux the #1 PC OS for years, not Windows (pad/tab & phone PCs are most popular)
I see this article now has sections on pad/tab & phone PCs. If the article is expanded to that, it needs to be updated that for years, Android Linux has been the #1 PC OS, not Windows... i.e., pad/tab & phone PCs are more popular than desktops... so it's also the case that the main PC OS is a gratis (free to use, but not Free Software as in freedom, except some of the source code, not all) Unix-like OS.--dchmelik (t|c) 10:16, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Low quality source cleanup
Hello, I believe there's some content based on low quality sources, as attempts to improve the article were met with resistance, I shall add a warning to other users by way of an unreliable source template. In order to justify this, I have conducted an alaysis on the first 23 sources, out of the 90 in the article. Out of the 23 sources examined, 14 were unique, 3 were of the lowest quality, 3 were of low quality, 2 were borderline, and 6 were high quality.

Below the analysis of the first 23 sources.

1- online dictionary definition of personal computer, no date of publication, no author, online-only, non-specialized, ad supported, most valuable asset is their domain name, probably encountered through a quick google search. Low quality. Should be replaced.

2- Online version of established magazine, issn, date of publication, author name, publisher active since 1872. High quality source.

3- Microsoft user manual. Primary source. Low quality.

4- Encyclopedia of Human Computer Interaction Online only, probably not peer reviewed, ad supported, article is actually an ad, reviewed products contain affiliate links. Lowest quality. Should be removed.

7- Cnet's Don't buy a new PC or Mac before you read this Same as number 6, affiliate links. Lowest quality, should be removed.

8- Ten reasons why Macs are better than PCs Ten reasons why Macs are better than PCs Same as above, affiliate links. Even if it weren't, a clickbait title like this should make us pause. Lowest quality should, be removed.

9- 1949 News article. High quality if true, but couldn't corroborate.

10 through 14- Museum web publication - properly referenced, based on oral history, unique material. High quality.

15- Specialized Encyclopedia High quality.

16- Same source as 6. Lowest quality.

17 through 18- IBM archives Self published. Primary source. Potentially advertising. Low quality source. Should be removed.

19 - PC Magazine 1983 Can't corroborate, looks legitimate. Probably High quality.

20 IBM archives. - Lowest quality.

21 - A bibliography of the Personal Computer. High quality.

22- Wang 2200 - Self published - primary source? borderline quality. Could be saved by waiting for someone to quote it.

23- 21

Users are welcome to continue revising the rest of the sources, and to remove the sources and rework the content.

--TZubiri (talk) 04:12, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

Third opinion requested on quality of sources.
The sources are used to support the definition in the leading paragraph of the article. On one hand is the entry in an online only dictionary, probably encountered after a quick google search (http://www.dictionary.com/browse/personal-computer), on the other hand is a peer-reviewed article published in 1972 in a widely accredited computing journal by notable computer scientist Alan Kay (http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download;jsessionid=5A197D969F21EE625F41B9D555445118?doi=10.1.1.655.8461&rep=rep1&type=pdf), encountered by an editor "interested in the origin and properties of something, running through an encyclopedia, finding a sketchy article, then a pertinent text and tying them together." For further context I encourage you to take a look at the revision history https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Personal_computer&action=history. --TZubiri (talk) 22:48, 2 September 2020 (UTC) Thank you for your third opinion. Excuse me for not engaging in further argument, I feel it would be conceding the position too much credit. I will not be adding further material to the article.--TZubiri (talk) 02:56, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Can we find a better source than dictionary.com? Probably.  Is Alan Kay in 1972 that source?  Absolutely not.  In that article, Alan Kay is advocating for his Dynabook, which is more tablet than computer.  He is not attempting to craft a comprehensive academic or popular definition for the term "personal computer," and he is writing before the first personal computers were ever constructed.  There are also no sources that link Dr. Kay and this article to the eventual definition of the term, so it is also etymologically useless as well.  Dr. Kay is a pioneer of many personal computing concepts, but not of the definition of the term "personal computer" itself. Please stop trying to add the article as a source in this context. Indrian (talk) 23:04, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I concur with Indrian's comments above. Also note that Dictionary.com is mostly based off Random House Unabridged Dictionary, which is a pretty reliable tertiary source. The definition of PC is bound to have changed significantly from 1972 anyway. I've replaced the citation with Cite Dictionary.com for consistency. Cheers, Ovinus (talk) 11:12, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

The 'Notes' tab should be removed
In my opinion, the 'Notes' tab within the article should be removed if no information can be added to it because in my opinion it is pointless to have an empty tab within the article. Xboxsponge15 (talk) 19:40, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Zero mention about Olivetti Programma 101?
Magnagr (talk) 06:37, 6 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Mainly because it wasn't a personal computer, or even the first of its type. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 20:52, 6 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I will not modify the article-rather tired of pointless edit battles- but this is what Nature - 2019, quite recent- states:
 * "......Adriano’s talented but less savvy son Roberto oversaw manufacturing of the Programma 101 (P101) desktop computer, which made its debut in 1965. It was the world’s first PC, and sold an astonishing 44,000 units over several ::years, including some to NASA..."
 * Programma 101 does not even deserve a mention? like modern computers, it could perform logical operations, conditional and unconditional jumps, print the data stored in a register Program and data stored in memory could be saved into a magnetic card thanks to a built-in cards reader/recorder, all through a custom-made alphanumeric programming language. This was, in the early ’60s, what set computers apart from calculators, indeed. I don't think one of the world's most-read and most prestigious academic journals would allow one of its authors to confuse a desktop computer with a desktop calculator. who knows maybe in the future somebody in Stockolm will ask wikipedia authors to decide the recipients of Nobel prize......Magnagr (talk) 03:07, 8 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Its the musings of a book reviewer summarizing the opinion of an author in a book that is not a general "history of the computer". So we are a long way from anything like "peer-reviewed research" or even a reliable source. And the large number of contradictory sources puts us into WP:YESPOV. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 14:03, 8 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Good to know it. Nevertheless, I would like to inform you that 80% of the references of this article are merely taken from personal blogs of some "Mr. none", articles in zero peer reviewed magazines and history section chronologies available in some computer museums websitws written by unidentified people.Magnagr (talk) 04:35, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
 * WP:OTHERCONTENT never really holds water. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 20:18, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

About Olivetti's pc, some sources: https://www.lastampa.it/cultura/2019/04/05/news/quando-la-olivetti-invento-il-pc-e-conquisto-new-york-1.35214967/ https://worldcrunch.com/tech-science/bill-gates-say-grazie-how-olivetti-invented-the-first-pc https://www.inexhibit.com/case-studies/olivetti-programma-101-at-the-origins-of-the-personal-computer/ https://www.fondazioneadrianolivetti.it/en/p101-cecam/ https://www.sacatech.com/2019/08/15/the-programma-101-the-first-personal-computer/ https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-03082-6 Book: The Mysterious Affair at Olivetti: IBM, the CIA, and the Cold War Conspiracy to Shut Down Production of the World's First Desktop Computer, by Meryle Secrest, Knopf Ed., ASIN: B07NKNND6G, 321 pages. --Jack2008 (talk) 08:32, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

First Use of The Term "Personal Computer"
I'd like some input before adding information on the term's first use. It may have already come up before and shot down for reasons that I'm unaware of.

Lotus co-founder Mitch Kapor, while hosting a computer-themed game show for Computer Chronicles, asked the contestants this question: "The first use of the phrase 'Personal Computer' was reportedly used to describe a computer built at MIT by some hackers. It cost nearly three million dollars and it filled up one small room. What was the name of that personal computer?" Computing pioneer Edward Fredkin quickly responded with "TX-0" which earned him points for being correct.

It was nationally televised with an audience of computer enthusiasts applauding Fredken, as well as the contestants and two judges in apparent agreement. For these reasons, I believe this a solid source. Computer Chronicles hosts the original episode on their YouTube channel at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJbtdrMbPK4#t=1385s (jumps to relevant scene at 23:05) but it's also hosted on archive.org at https://archive.org/details/compbowl1 (cannot add jump to URL). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Taborgate (talk • contribs) 02:17, 13 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Game shows are not reliable sources. It would need (multiple) sources to be reliable, and it still may be just opinion. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 02:37, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Lchollingsworth.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 06:26, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

History Section needs improving
Apparently, the history of the PC ends in 1991. Ianbrettcooper (talk) 11:42, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Which one is really first?
Could it be possible to emphasize, which one was really the first commercially available personal computer?

If this question has more answers, so then I think, the main question variant is like this: "which one was the first commercially available personal computer with keyboard and display?" (And then there could exists those for others questions, like "first personal computer with mouse and GUI" and "first personal computer even without display").

Now, it is very difficult to found the answer in that long text. Thank you very much.

31.30.172.61 (talk) 21:09, 14 December 2022 (UTC)