Talk:Personifications of death/Archive 1

Page with Grim Reapers around the world
I give the suggestion for create a page with all the characters based on the Grim Reaper in the media (movies, animes, video games, etc..).

Egyptian mythology
I think it is a good idea to insert some information about ancient Egyptian deities of death because perhaps no religeon or mythology is as rich as this one re death.Can some one do this ?

Vandals
Someone changed The biblical Book of Job (xxxiii. 22) uses the general term "destroyer" ("memitim"), which tradition has identified with "destroying angels" ("mal'ake Kabbalah") and Prov. xvi. 14 uses the term the "angels of death" ("mal'ake ha-mawet").

to

The biblical Book of Job (xxxiii. 22) uses the general term "destroyer" ("memitim"), which tradition has identified with "destroying angels" ("mal'ake Kabbalah") and Prov. xvi. 14 uses the term the "Chicken Pot Pie" ("mal'ake ha-mawet").

Im changing it back

Some Changes I Suggest
This is the first time I have read this article and perhaps I missed something earlier, but it seems to me that there is significant content missing from it.

I note that throughout this article there was little mention of Death as personified in Christianity, especially as depicted in the Book of Revelation. "And I saw, and behold, a pale horse, and it's rider's name was Death and Hades followed him and they were given power over a fourth of the earth, to kill with word and famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth." (Revelation RSV, 7:8)

Later, after the return of Christ, Death is judged. "And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire;  (Revelation RSV, 20:13-14)  Note how in these verses, there is a distinction between Death as an entity (a proper noun) and death as a state of being.

There is no mention that in Catholicism, the archangel Michael is considered the angel of death. This is explicitly stated in the wikipedia entry on Michael the Archangel. This clearly contradicts the statement early on in this article that Azrael is the angel of death. I do not know which entry is correct but it looks like something must be changed.

I make these comments not to say that the Christian view should necessarily be represented more. I understand that an exhaustive explanation of of every religion's depiction of Death is untenable, but this article introduces the Hebrew version of the angel of the death as Azrael and says, "In the Bible, death is viewed under form of an angel sent from God, a being deprived of all voluntary power. On some occasions this described in terms fitting Azrael, and on others as fitting Samael." From what I can see, this is not wholly correct, for the Bible also in Revelation makes no reference to Azrael (as far as I can see) or Samael but instead as described earlier. I think it is misleading to say that death in the bible is exclusively Azrael. Perhaps there should be a distinction made between Old Testament and New Testament instead of "the Bible" or, better I think, an explanation of the Christian view of death's personification should be included. It seems a bit "Hebrew-centric" right now.

I included the portion on Paradise Lost because that is one of the most famous personifications of death in English literature and I felt it enhanced this article.

I am not an expert on this subject so I do not think I could do justice to it. The author of this article seems quite knowledgable about the subject matter and the text is clear to read. co94 March 19, 2006

An issue
In the introductory part of this article it is stated that "because the reality of death has had a substantial influence on the human psyche and the development of civilization as a whole, the personification of Death as a living, sentient entity is a concept that has existed in all (my italics) known societies since the beginnings of recorded history."

Can we be absolutely certain that the personification of Death "has existed in all known societies since the beginnings of recorded history?" To me, this may seen to be more of a presumptiom.

Thoughts?


 * Heh, I was just about to comment on that. Clearly there must be exceptions—the Pirahã people for one, I'd wager. —Muke Tever talk

Consider it changed. I used "many" instead of "all". I'd think most of us can concur upon the idea of it being a frequent occurrance, but it can hardly be seen among all societies.

Suggestions for Changes
There should be a disambiguation page for "Angel of the Lord," which currently redirects here. That angel is presented in many other roles, not just Death (in fact, the Bible never, unless I'm forgetting something, refers to the Angel of the Lord as the Angel of Death, although the Angel of Yahweh sometimes is pictured in a killing role). I won't make it myself, though.

Christianity's viewpoint on this matter isn't represented very much at all. Jewish views on the matter have four sections (which should really all be under "In Judaism," perhaps with additional sub-sections to avoid the section being too long), but Jewish views don't match Christian ones exactly, especially with all the Talmud, Targum, midrashim, etc. references. Also, the section "Death and Satan" mentions Satan once, in the first sentence, and then continues in Jewish traditions regarding the Angel of Death - none of which are obviously connected to Satan. I commend the author, though, as they are obviously extremely knowledge in Jewish literature, but some of it seems rather unfocused. I won't change any content, but I will reorganize it, placing all the sections under "In Judaism"; as it is, the fourth section's title "In Judaism" is rather redundant. After the Jewish section, and before the Muslim one, I'll discuss Christian views of personified Death. In discussing Catholic traditions, I'll move the section on "In Mexico" to the Christian section.

In addition, I'm no expert on Hinduism, but I'd imagine a Hindu would think it offensive to label his religion "Hindu Mythology." It seems to me that that section should be included under the religion heading, although Yama is not an angel... I'll leave other editors to resolve this problem.

Thank you, and great work on the article besides!

-- Ummm... why is there a redirect? --

Why is there a redirect here from "angel of the lord"? The term "angel of the lord" is used occasionally in judeo-christian texts and several denominations teach that when an angel is referred to as the "angel of the lord" it indicates the presence of a pre-incarnate christ. There /IS/ justification for a link at the top of a page about the "angel of the lord" explaining the "sometimes depicted as" note from the entry above this one. I don't see /ANY/ reason to have a redirect here. It is also worth noting that come groups that are or have been associated with the LDS have a totally different view of the "angel of the lord".

-

This may have already been mentioned, but when the article states ""The destroyer" kills the first-born of the Egyptians" it is incorrect. G-d is the one who struck down the first born sons. It says so all through out Exodus. For example, Exodus xii. 20 29 "And at midnight Yhwh (G-d without the vowels) struck down all first-born..." The fact that it was G-d who did this is a large part of the signifigance. This task was so important that G-d did not delegate it to an angel.

What happened here?
Where did the list of uses of Death in modern cuture go? I found it very informative and useful. Now it's very incomplete. I would enjoy it restored to its former glory.

Death: Movies: Bill & Ted
i corrected a couple things. bill and ted beat death at table football, not table hockey. and death tells them about challenging him to a contest during their first encounter so i switched the sentences to agree with this.

Mythology/Religous claims attributed to fact
All throughout this article, particularly the "scholars and the angel of death" section, religious texts' tales of encounters with death personified are described as fact, not as "Jews claim, religions claim, etc." This is a pretty large error for an encyclopedia, to present simply "Often he resorts to strategy in order to interrupt and seize his victim" is out of the ordinary for this avenue. I realize that the section starts by saying Talmudic teachers, but the fact is it loses its context quite quickly.

Image
I had to delete the image that was here previously because an improper use of a fair use image. I replaced it with Image:The death.png from Commons but it's kind of a wimpy, jokey looking Death. If anyone can find a good scary Death which is free use, please replace this. Thanks.  howch e  ng   {chat} 07:30, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Grim reaper
I have moved the page back from "The Grim Reaper". If you wish to move this page to "Grim Reaper", please justify your reasoning here. Thanks! Isopropyl 14:36, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Soul Calibur III...?
Soul Calibur III video game (not officially in the game, but can be made in the character creation mode of the game) Well using that logic, we could put something similar in articles about Santa Claus, the President of the United Stated, and Mr Potato Head. You can make pretty much anyone using the character creation mode of any game. I think this should be removed. Squirminator2k 12:08, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Way too much listing
The "Death in popular culture" list is way too big and makes up about half of this article. I suggest that it is cut down significantly or made into its own article.

Yah, I vote for it to be made into its own article.


 * Agreed. This way we can merge Shinigami with it, or at least give a good overlook.--SidiLemine 11:32, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Split This Article
If there is no objection by next week, I will move the pop refs to Personifications of Death in popular fiction.--SidiLemine 10:55, 20 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, what are you waiting for?--Boffob 23:33, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi,

Just curious about the "Death (angels) in religion" section. It makes some bold claims (anyone interested in religion, dark skin, born on the first day of 1993, etc. could be death) without any citation whatsoever. For that matter, it makes no reference to what "prophecy" it refers to in the first place. Who made this prophecy? When? If this is under religions, what religion is this associated with? The whole section just seems....well, to be quite frank, sloppy and possibley full of BS. Just wanted to bring this up; its a great article otherwise.

Jesse

Family Guy
I'm surprised that nobody has added Death from Family Guy. It would add some humor to this article.

That guys a wimp! no one wants to relat the king of evil or death to a wimp Deathdealer 01:03, 16 February 2006 (UTC)deathdealer

Having that at the beginning of the article is silly and does not introduce it correctly, so I removed it. Sloverlord 00:15, 13 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Having it at all is a disgrace. --Haizum   μολὼν λαβέ 00:13, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Well somebody put it in properly, albeit not in any great detail. In fact, a lot of the cartoon appearances Death's made appear to have been condensed into one paragraph. Frankly, that isn't good enough.

And Haizum, just because you don't like it doesn't invalidate it in any way. Wikipedia is about being informative, not cowtowing to personal preference.EnerJolt 20:09, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Death from Family Gy would make an excellent little blurb in the trivia section or "in media".

-G

Fatalism
I've cleaned up the Fatalism section ever so slightly, but it still needs fleshing out. Someone who knows something about the subject should expand this section. Filam3nt 03:10, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Modern Interpretation?
Image:Nazgul.PNG

Wouldn't it make sense to put up a picture that resembles that one? I mean, it's common knowledge that everyone imagines something resembling that when they think of The Grim Reaper, so it makes sense to add one somewhere in the article. Pluvia 05:25, 16 September 2007 (UTC)


 * If you can find a free image, then sure.-Wafulz 22:46, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

where should i put this text? i removed it from "death as a fictional character cuz these are not works of fiction
The character of Death is typically depicted in the West as wearing a dark hooded cloak and wielding a scythe. In many icons of the resurrection of Jesus, Death is portrayed as a skeleton who is bound hand and foot lying amid other bones under the earth. In Eastern Orthodox theology, Death is one of humanity's three enemies; the other two are sin and the Devil. This figure of Death is also known as the Grim Reaper. Death, in this guise, appears also on one of the Tarot arcana. While in Germanic folklore, including English, Death is male (der Tod), in Latin folklore it is female (la muerte, la mort). In Mexico, death is sometimes referred to as La Calaca, a skull-like character that comes and takes people away when they die. Blueaster 04:04, 29 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The concept of death as an actual figure is mythology —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.22.166.183 (talk) 10:20, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Death.jpg
Image:Death.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 06:52, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Games: FF???
Hey, I know it's a complete opinion, but couldn't the game section for Final Fantasy explain the symblism between Sephiroth and Death? Does this part of the article really need to be that strict? I mean, come on people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Six string brad (talk • contribs) 00:49, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Games:Legacy of Kain series?
The protago nist ofthe Legacy of Kain series, Raziel is a Grim Reaper of sorts —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alwayssummerdays (talk • contribs) 21:48, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Vandal?
death is usually given the name, the "Grim Reaper", otherwise known as "Aaron Williams" - Since when did death go by the name of "Aaron Williams"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.226.37.104 (talk) 18:58, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

lol —Preceding unsigned comment added by Six string brad (talk • contribs) 00:22, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Only eyes can be seen
The phrase "Usually when portrayed in the black-hooded gown, only his eyes can be seen." is completely untrue. In almost every picture of Death, it's either seen from the side, or has a skull under the hood. Speaking from personal experience, of course. 68.230.161.164 (talk) 22:36, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Pearl Jam "Do The Evolution"
I added a small part in the "Music" section about death's personification on Pearl Jam's video. I hope it's relevant enough to be kept. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.152.83.92 (talk) 02:22, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Citation needed
Large sections of the article are uncited and appearances in film/literature etc should be reduced to only the most notable and relevant. Currently it is just a long list, in a real quality article there is no need for this type of information to exceed a few paragraphs. For example the Milton reference just indulges in storytelling. The articles job is to put the topic in to perspective and context; not needless storyline details e.g. "Sin warns that Death can destroy Satan and that the only reason she is spared (yet tortured) is that Death cannot exist without Sin. Satan nevertheless demands that the gates be opened" Sillyfolkboy (talk) 23:02, 18 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree that "in popular fiction" is much too large. I took a look at it and I'm not sure what to do though. How do we decide what to cut and what to keep? My own suggestion is drastic: Keep the Bergman reference (as the most iconic depiction), and then include the comic and the French play which portray death as a woman (novel, could be expanded on). Better yet, if someone wanted to look into the history of depictions of death that would be good and just say that modern Western depictions all stem from this (I am willing to bet that this is the case. There was probly a personified death in medieval morality plays and it all stems from that.) But yeah for the present, I would go with Bergman, and talk about the feminine portrayals. Carl.bunderson (talk) 19:54, 19 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Well I cut it down to Bergman and the Sandman comic, with their pictures, let's see what the response is. Both pictures don't exactly fit there, but I did want to retain them since they are discussed. If someone is better with formatting, please make it look better. Carl.bunderson (talk) 06:39, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I think the Bergman and Sandman comic are adequate examples. The rest of the information was just a pointless list anyway - imagine is we had a list of things where Santa has appeared! I suggest that anything that could not be expanded upon should not feature. The current examples are a good start and more middle age history of the subject seems an interesting prospect! Sillyfolkboy (talk) 13:50, 21 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, at the moment WP is way too let's list absolutely everything without regards to notability-oriented. Unfortunately I don't have a lot on the medieval history, but I think I could add a few details from one of Duffy's works. Thank you for the feedback! Carl.bunderson (talk) 19:15, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Grim reaper Flower
I was wondering if anyone had some information on the flower that represents death/ The Grim Reapper? There is a picture of a flower on the picture in the article, but i also believe there is some relevant story behind it so if i knew what the flower was i might be able to shine some light upon it. (7121989 21:52, 17 November 2005 (UTC))

Would that be Deadly Nightshade, or Belladonna as I should properly call it. Tell me if I'm completely wrong, as there's a huge chance of it, seeing as I'm 11. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.32.69.137 (talk) 18:39, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

That information is incorrect, it is widely believed that Lilium(Lilies for us lay-men) are in fact the flower associated with death (and obviously the Grim Reaper). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.66.221.186 (talk) 20:54, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Styx vs. Lethe
This page states - in the section on ancient Greece - that the river Lethe divides the realm of the living from that of the dead. However, the pages on Lethe, Hades, and Styx seem to indicate (upon cursory examination) that the river Styx is the division; Lethe is another river in Hades, noted for its property of causing the loss of memory.

But I'm no expert on this, so I'd rather ask about it than change it and be woefully mistaken.

Edit: I changed my mind, I'll go for the gusto. Change it back if I'm wrong.

Didiercollard (talk) 04:26, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

New Pop Culture Additions
Is there anything particularly noteworthy about the portrayal of Death in Death Takes a Holiday/Meet Joe Black? Yes, he takes on a human body, but I am wary of letting this section grow again. I'll probly remove it unless some defence is made. Carl.bunderson (talk) 22:00, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Removed it. Carl.bunderson (talk) 18:21, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Death in Castlevania
While this page is very well protected, I added a paragraph to the Death in Popular Fiction section for Death's role in the Castlevania video game franchise. While the other entries give notable mentions of Death in TV, Movies, Comics, and Theater, I noticed there wasn't a mention for the personification of Death in a video game. I believe that the best representation of Death within a video game, by far, would be the Castlevania series.

Also, after reading through the discussion comments above, I realized that there is a good need for a "Death Personified in Popular Culture" page for all the many instances where Death is seen in media. This will allow for recognition of appearances in shows such as Family Guy and others, as well as help maintain the religious and mythical integrity of the main page.

OtakuMan (talk) 20:22, 1 January 2009 (UTC)


 * What is notable about his portrayal in Castlevania? Is he a grim reaper in it, or is there something unique about him? And why is a pop culture page necessary? There is nothing important about his portrayal in Family Guy. He's a skeleton with a cloak and a sickle. That is the standard portrayal of death in our culture. There is absolutely no reason to make another article that merely lists all the many ways death has been portrayed, particularly when they're all instances of a single trope. Carl.bunderson (talk) 21:14, 1 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Alright then; no reply, I'm removing it. Carl.bunderson (talk) 01:41, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Death in TV
Why isn't there a section for Death in TV in the Popular Cultures section. I'm sure that Death has appeared in many different cartoons and TV shows like Family Guy and the Simpsons.Wild ste 10:08, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


 * If that's so, then shouldn't we include Grim, from The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy. He's even one of the top three stars of the show. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Racku-Salada (talk • contribs) 09:11, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Merger Proposal?
King_of_spades

Please have a look at my submission, it may not be that elegant at the moment, so please bear with it, however, The King of spades is a lesser known name for the grim reaper and thought it ought to be added as a side sddition, Thoughts, opinions?


 * Yes, it should be merged or deleted. I don't know how to merge. Belasted (talk) 20:41, 24 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I've reverted it to a redirect. The content in the article made little sense and failed to express what what the subject was. Sillyfolkboy (talk) 15:06, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

The Henderson Clan
{{editsemiprotected}

According to research carried out by the Universidad de Salamanca the original grim reaper was based on folklore and thought to have been attributed to the ancient Henderson clan, of Lanark, Scotland. According to their recent work the translation ‘Memento Te Moriturum’ – ‘Remember that you will die’ is closely connected to the spirited lifestyle led by the chief of the 12th century clan, Colin Henderson. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dm86 (talk • contribs) 16:25, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

"indo-european" = misnomer
this page is confused - it has a heading entitled "Indo-European folklore / mythology", but it is then followed by a second heading entitled "Hindu mythology". Either Hindu mythology should be combined with its relatives under Indo-European, or preferably the out of place linguistics term "Indo-European" should be changed to the simpler and more accurate "European". --81.129.139.97 (talk) 18:31, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Carlos Schwabe painting
In the Carlos Schwabe painting, there is a glowing green object in the angel's hand. Is this the sprout mentioned in the Slavic Death description? --98.232.181.201 (talk) 09:40, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Cronus Connection
"The characters of Father Time and the Grim Reaper frequently overlap, leading to the common portrayal of the Grim Reaper brandishing a scythe.[citation needed]"

I don't get it. If the grim reaper came to have a scythe as a [i]result[/i] of being itentified with Chronos, how is it that he was a "reaper" in the first place? Citation needed indeed. Sounds like someone just made this one up.

Paul Murray 04:14, 8 May 2007 (UTC)


 * That section sent up my BS flag too. I'm removing the entire paragraph. I'll include the removed text here in case someone can verify it, but it sounds like original research at best.


 * "The portrayal of the scythe originates from a Hellenistic etymological misconception relating the god Cronus with time. Cronus was a harvest deity who is often shown with a sickle, which he also uses to castrate his father Uranus. Etymologists from the Hellenistic period erroneously correlated Cronus with time due to the similarity with the prefix chrono-.  From this mistake, Cronus was often depicted as Father Time, carrying a scythe, which is a harvesting tool related to the sickle.  The characters of Father Time and the Grim Reaper frequently overlap, leading to the common portrayal of the Grim Reaper brandishing a scythe.  As well the conception of the 'harvest' and the reaper reaping the weeds and grain in the field in a parable by Jesus, describing Final Judgement."Sc00baSteve (talk) 17:13, 18 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Because he wasnt a 'reaper in the first place'. He was Death. He was later called 'the grim reaper'. Lemmiwinks2 (talk) 04:31, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Blood Wedding
Because this page is locked, i can't edit it. But i think, that under the In popular Fiction section, the portrayal of death as a beggar woman in Garcia Lorca's Blood Wedding(who reveals herself as death when she opens her cloak and lifts her arms to reveal a pair of brilliant red wings) - needs to be added. It's a very famous play and definatly important enough to be added. thanks 88.108.107.96 (talk) 10:43, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

-Here is some critism and internet articles, if anybody disagrees with the above
 * http://www.times.com/books/99/09/12/specials/lorca-blood2.html
 * http://www.cuttothechaseproductions.co.uk/education/assets/Blood%20Wedding%20Education%20Pack.pdf
 * http://www.ciao.co.uk/Blood_Wedding_Federico_Garcia_Lorca__Review_5051489 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.108.107.96 (talk) 10:50, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Here's one you forgot...
I saw this Wiki entry, called "Thanatos". Greek mythology, personification of Death and Mortality. In the highest of ironies, he's immortal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanatos

72.192.59.3 (talk) 00:03, 23 February 2008 (UTC)GOF

Also Orcus, Thanatos' roman counter-part —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.177.140.226 (talk) 21:39, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

oops. orcus is a god of death and broken oaths, though he has been associated with thanatos. mors is thanatos' roman counterpart. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.177.140.226 (talk) 21:45, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Death; Grim Reaper; Angel of Death
Grim comes in MANY forms as everyone knows. But what no one wants to see is that the legand of this creature is mocked day after day. At first many cultures thaught of it as the Angel of Death and others think of it as a cartoon for easily amused Americans amusment. I think that the Grim Reaper is a symbol of the journy into the after life, scary but harmless. You have this scary figure leading you into the after life but watching over you making sure you make it. Death isn't scary, it's just new. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.132.11.154 (talk) 06:49, 22 April 2007 (UTC).

The modern depiction of the Grim Reaper as a skeleton in a black robe wielding a scythe is taken mainly from the Celtic depiction, with the name being derived from the Germanic depiction. The undead depiction began during the Black Death (coicidentally named?). That's the guist I get from the article. 142.26.194.190 (talk) 23:11, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Death.
There are a few pointers missing from this page. For one, death is also "Apollyon" from the verse, REV, 9, verse 11. Also he has the name Abaddon as written in the bible, thus this name is in Hebrew, while Apollyon is in Greek. Also known as the Angel of the bottomless pit, "Angel of the Abyss" the one who controls "the king" of the scorpions which come from the pit.

Anuangel00 (talk)AnuAnuangel00 (talk) 00:55, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

"Grim" from Grimnir?
"The 'Grim' of Grim Reaper being derived from Grimnir, a name for Odin."

This really should be cited, as it's false on its face. See http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=grim —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.91.173.36 (talk) 00:58, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Recommended for deletion - Black Angel (Iowa City) picture
Since this bronze statue was not created to be a depiction of death I recommend it be deleted and replaced with an image of artwork that the creator intended as an artist representation of death.

Local folklore may, or may not, hold the Iowa City black angel statue to be a sign of death, but there's no evidence the creator or the person who commissioned it had it made as an angel of death. 65.68.101.244 (talk) 22:31, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

I am from iowa city and was quite surprised to see the black angel image on this page. All the locals know the history of the angel, despite all the urban legend surrounding it. It seems to me that it has been tagged by the photographer as "an angel of death" which is how it might have ended up on the "death" page in the first place. It is misleading and a disservice to wikipedia users to even IMPLY that this statue has anything to do with an angel of death. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.205.194.111 (talk) 03:49, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Popular culture
This section is absolutely enormous and largely unnecessary. We could generalize personifications, such as "humorous" or "satirical" or "serious", but we don't need to list stuff like "In [medium], Death makes an appearance and [performs action]"--Wafulz 18:18, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Concur. I have accordingly trimmed these sections (with a scythe, perhaps); what means are iconic depictions with some discussion (or room for discussion, as in the case of Dickens). Mackensen (talk) 14:13, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think that Pratchett's Death character might still be worthy of a mention in this section. 80.176.88.21 (talk) 17:33, 25 September 2008 (UTC)


 * How about I add it to the see also section? Carl.bunderson (talk) 20:40, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

I would like to see the use of Grim Reapers in the TV show Supernatural added to this section, as Reapers are recurring characters on the show. The show's modern interpretation of the concept of a reaper is highly interesting: that there is more than one, that they can be talked with/reasoned with/recruited to help humans, that they can appear in any guise (an old man, a pretty girl), that they can bend the human spirit's perceptions, etc. It has been said somewhere that the character of Tessa, a reaper, on Supernatural is loosely based on Neil Gaiman's "Death" character in the Sandman books. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.205.194.111 (talk) 03:56, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Ankou
I've seen a picture of Ankou as a skeleton holding a scythe, so I'm thinking it's likely that that image, popularized during the Black Death, became the basis of the Grim Reaper. There is even a painting of Death standing on a cart full of plague victims, much the same as Ankou is depected in the myths revolving around him. 75.157.110.77 (talk) 06:31, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Editprotected
Please change Azriel (target is a dab page) to Azrael. Thanks. 92.2.208.239 (talk) 14:58, 27 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Done. I've piped the link to maintain a consistent use of the name throughout the article. Mind  matrix  15:46, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Is the Solomon story variant of a common theme?
The Solomon story reminds me of the Appointment in Samarra scene with death which itself is based on a far older variant from the Babylonian Talmud retold by W. Somerset Maugham. I was wondering if there is anything connecting these stories together or are they simple extensions of you can't avoid fate theme seem in the Classical (Especially Greek) world. --BruceGrubb (talk) 04:39, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

In popular fiction
I'm in favor of adding links to the Death (DC Comics) and Death (Discworld) with brief explanations. Both of these characters are notable enough to have their own standalone articles outside of the general articles about their literary works. I understand being on guard against letting the section get out of control. I would not be in favor of making note of the Family Guy character of Death, for example. However, if the character is notable enough to have its own standalone Wikipedia article, it should be included. Henrymrx (t&middot;c)
 * Why? What makes them significant to understanding personifications of death? Do you have critics or sociologists claiming that they are seminal and perfect? All I see here is the kind of "my fiction must be mentioned" mentality that plagues Wikipedia. I really don't think that the Discworld personification of death is any more important to understanding popular perception than Family Guy's. Feel free to make a Personification of death in popular culture, and add all the references you like there. Mintrick (talk) 02:23, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Please don't assume that you know how I think. I've made a reasonable proposal. The Death personification is a frequent cultural icon and having only a single instance in the popular fiction section is insufficient.  I'm sure there's more out there that's notable enough to be included without letting the section get out of control. Henrymrx (t&middot;c) 11:24, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Then I encourage you to translate that sureness into some referenced examples of significant portrayals. Mintrick (talk) 13:30, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm open to the Henry's suggestion, though I would prefer if we just included the links in the see also. carl bunderson (talk) (contributions) 16:05, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * My stance on this is either add it or get rid the information from Discworld. It would leave the pop culture section incredibly bare though. But overall I think it would be nice to add it since it is a popular portrayal that differs greatly from the Western viewpoints of Death as man in a robe. Tsunamipanda05 (talk) 23:58, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Since the Discworld Death is being discussed here i'll use this section to mention that there is a doublepost about him/it. Psilorder (talk) 01:31, 28 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you. The section has once again grown out of control.  I'd like to keep it limited to sourced items only?  Thoughts? Henrymrx (t&middot;c) 08:21, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Let me add to that. If it's not reliably sourced then the manifestation in question has to have its own article.  This covers Discworld's instance of Death, but not, say Family Guy's who just appears on a character list. How about that? Henrymrx (t&middot;c) 08:31, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Seeing no objection, I'm cutting the section down. Henrymrx (t&middot;c) 11:30, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

popular media
Bill and Ted really should get a mention with how central death is to the story. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.226.212.190 (talk) 15:33, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

The Twilight Zone (original series)
I was wondering if there should be a mention of the Twilight Zone episodes "Nothing in the Dark" and "One for the Angels" where Death appears as a main character? This could be placed in the popular fiction section right? HaakonXCI (talk) 16:10, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
 * It needs to be sourced. Otherwise, if we start adding every appearance in popular fiction, that section will easily balloon out of control. Henrymrx (t&middot;c) 17:36, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Poland
"In Poland Death, or "Śmierć" is appeared to be like the normal Grim Reaper but instead of a black robe Death has a white robe. Many believe the Polish Death is a woman, but this is not true. In Poland Death is a "it" not a she." I find this dubious - I'm Polish and I've never heard of this. The "it" form ("to śmierć"? seriously?) doesn't even make sense from a linguistic perspective. While it's entirely possible I've simply missed something about death throughout my life, I do believe some citations are needed. Mad Minstrel (talk) 15:23, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

"Śmierć" as a noun is definitely a female form. A simple sentence construct: "Śmierć zabrała czlowieka" - verb "zabrała" is female conjugation in response to a female noun "Śmierć" If Śmierć would be "it" the sentence should be: "Śmierć zabrało człowieka" - which doesn't make much sense.

70.29.30.28 (talk) 03:14, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

While the noun is feminine, it is perhaps worth remembering that the noun for 'man' in Polish, 'mężczyzna' is also classed as feminine. I have heard 'Smierci' described as 'ona'. On another point, regarding the black robes, I have seen old pictures of Death being just a naked skeleton (80.52.179.154 (talk) 17:11, 3 February 2010 (UTC))

Sorry but the noun "mężczyzna" is as masculine as it can be (see for instance: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/m%C4%99%C5%BCczyzna). Perhaps the last letter "a" deceived you. The skeleton in the black robes was imported to the Polish culture. Poles quite often call this form of the death "kostucha" (which is feminine). 82.195.186.142 (talk) 07:03, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

I think there were at least some depictions of Death as a rotting female corpse. For instance she seems to be like this in Medieval poem (http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rozmowa_Mistrza_Polikarpa_ze_Śmiercią). Anyone can check this out? - An Anon —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.236.28.36 (talk) 15:28, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Internet Gamers?
I deleted this because it seems irrelevant and of no real interest to anyone:

"Many internet gamers have donned the name Grim Reaper but the most notworth of these goes by the name =URX= Grim Reaper or, as his teammates know him, Grimmage. He is a most respected and feared Medal of Honour player who sometimes disguises himself under names such as Farmer Grim or Gribbet."


 * Ha. That piece of info applies to all of about .1% of internet gamers anyway, probably. Beast Love

It's asserted "He is portrayed in the Bible as Azrael, the Angel of death. "

Not so for at least most bibles. Azrael may figure in the Book of Tobit, but for most people that would be non-scriptural. I just can't locate Tobit right now to be sure, but the assertion should be modified and clarified (e.g. He is portrayed in the Book of Tobit, a book of the Catholic Bible, as Azrael, the Angel of Death). (if that is indeed true) -- Someone else 09:45 Mar 26, 2003 (UTC)

Azrael is not named in the bible or the quran ~ his name was associated to the "Angel of Death" later on. Neither Azrael or the Angel of Death are named in the Book of Tobit. That angel was Raphael. Amen to the Internet for allowing people easy access to inspect documents and dispute bad information!

What are "poop dances"? Mick 21:06 12 Jun 2003 (UTC)


 * Anonymous vandalism. "popular poop dances" used to say "popular culture", and now does again. Thank you for pointing that out. &mdash; Paul A 01:21 13 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I thought that was an odd term I wasn't familiar with, Paul. lol! Mick 05:51 13 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Unless vehement objection is made, in the near future I propose to move this page to Death (personification), and to merge here the text now found at Angel of death, which deals with Death in Jewish legend. Neither the four horsemen of the Apocalypse, nor for some, characters from the book of Tobit, are properly "fictional characters." -- Smerdis of Tlön 16:39, 20 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I listed this article on Featured article candidates, and although there was an objection, there were some useful comments:

I could've sworn I saw this featured already, but I don't see it in the logs. Although it covers a large topic, it is an interesting and detailed article. Wmahan. 03:54, 2004 Apr 29 (UTC) Object: I believe this is a very myopic look at personified death with overplayed Christian history, which is certainly rich, while ignoring vast amounts of culture outside of Europe. What about the very famous, (West and East) dialogue between Death and a young teenager in the Katha Upanishad in which Death instructs the boy as to life, liberation, and conduct? Perhaps even some glancing mentions of African indigenous religions, which surely have personified death (if not then mention) this. I don't support this because its title implies a broad look at Death (personified) whereas it only really deals with one single culture of the world. --LordSuryaofShropshire 16:26, Apr 29, 2004 (UTC)
 * Good article, but in the early sections many characters in people's names and references appear as open squares in my browser (MS IE 6.0.2800.1106) -- possible Hebrew characters? Anyway, they need to be cleared up before I could support the article unreservedly. Arwel 10:47, 29 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * I see how those characters could be a problem. What would clearing them up entail? It looks like that section was copied straight from the Jewish Encyclopedia, specifically . So unfortunately I don't think I can get in touch with the original author. Wmahan. 15:41, 2004 Apr 29 (UTC)
 * That's a good point. I suppose more should be added about Death in non-Western culture. Wmahan. 22:16, 2004 Apr 29 (UTC)

Wmahan. 02:51, 2004 Apr 30 (UTC)

--

It would be great if a picture of Neil Gaiman's Death character could be added because... well, it would be all trendy and stuff, and also appropriate, and also she's fairly cute. Her and her Ankh serve as Memento Mori for me. The catch is the legal thing--pictures of the NG Death character abound on the Internet, but is are they really legal what with the copyright thing?

Wyrd-- http://wyrd_sane.livejournal.com

Well then your saying im a geek because im a internet gamer--71.177.40.198 (talk) 02:20, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Needs Some Work
I've come to this page in connection with Bergman's The Seventh Seal, but I find the popular culture section to be a bit of a mess. I don't have time to fix it, but I am going to assert a significant omission, namely the Fritz Leiber story "The Sadness of the Executioner" (1973). There may also be a connection between Death here and Pratchett's Death, although it may be difficult to confirm this and probably shouldn't be asserted in the text.

I would suggest, if anyone is handling this page, that some decision is made as to what the purpose of the popular culture segment. Is it a shopping list of appearances in anything and everything? (As it currently is). Or a point of reference for significant appearances of the personification of Death (candidates would include, at the very least, Bergman, Leiber, Pratchett, Gaiman). Parodies of Bergman (e.g. Monty Python, Bill and Ted) might be best handled as a reference in this express vein. Also, arranging the content chronologically (as suggested) would be sensible. Will make a few edits with an eye to improving chronology.

All I have time for today. 93.97.31.222 (talk) 23:10, 26 March 2011 (UTC)


 * It should not be a shopping list. I try to cull it from time to time, but it is a never-ending battle, as people think that every appearance of Death needs to be included. When last I fixed it, I had a short introductory paragraph including Everyman, and then only really mentioned Bergman's portrayal, as it seems that most all portrayals in pop culture derive from his. Anything that does not deviate from the standard Bergman black robe/scyth should really not be included, or the section will be a shopping list, as you noticed. I urge you to follow your instinct on this. Be bold in removing cruft, and I'll support you. carl bunderson (talk) (contributions) 15:30, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

I've boldly culled the section again, leaving only those instances which have, on this talk page, been discussed as having particular importance/novelty. carl bunderson (talk) (contributions) 23:53, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

I suggest to put up Latin proverb "Quad sumus hoc eritis" and phylosophical thought ir emerges. Waiting for consideration/comments. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.57.148.86 (talk) 22:17, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Fictional Character
This page introduces the Angel of Death as a fictional character. Many of your religious readers would contend this...


 * Don't worry, i'll distract them with my invisible pink unicorn. --TiagoTiago (talk) 00:19, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

editwar
Added to the end of the intro section:
 * Death is also noted as the forth horseman of the apocalypse in The Book of Revelation of the New Testament.

I reverted this because it's already mentioned below, and doesn't fit well in that paragraph.


 * Usually, the Ankou is the spirit of the last person that died the year before within the community ...

In the same click, I reverted addition of "the year before", because it seems redundant; the last X within the past year is necessarily the last X overall — unless "the year before" means the previous full calendar year which seems unlikely.

Both of these reversions have now been reverted, and I'm not gonna play anymore right now. —Tamfang (talk) 17:40, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

"Hamburger" and "Winer" Bibliography entries
Just in case anyone questions or needs to know about my expansion of these, they were passed down from the very first "Angel of death" (sic capitalization) entry, which was copied from the Jewish Encyclopedia entry:

"http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Death_(personification)&diff=1784974&oldid=1784833 —> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Angel_of_death&action=history —> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Angel_of_death&oldid=365176 —> http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/5018-death-angel-of —> http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/abbreviations_listings"

–DocWatson42 (talk) 12:11, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

The part about Islam needs further researching
the section about Islam indicates that " Death is represented by Azrael" ,as far as I know there is no direct evidence from the Quran or Hadith that indicates so. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.42.218.208 (talk) 18:55, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Merger proposal
I propose that personifications of death in American media be merged into death (personification).


 * 1) Currently, personifications of death in American media is an orphan article, as no other articles link to it.  It has been an orphan article for five straight years this month.
 * 2) The article is rarely edited.  Since the stub list was created in 2007 by Kurieeto, only a single non-bot editor, Boneyard90, has edited the page.  This edit brought the list up from three items to four.  I am inviting both editors to join this discussion and weigh in if they so choose.
 * 3) The content in the personifications of death in American media stub list can easily be incorporated into death (personification); the list is so short that the merging of it will not cause any problems as far as article size or undue weight is concerned.

If a consensus is reached, enough time (normally one week or so) has elapsed and there has been no discussion, any user may close the discussion and move forward with the merger. I do not wish to personally merge the articles myself, and thus I leave that up to any editor who agrees, provided said consensus is reached or said time has reasonably passed without discussion.

Please discuss the merger below. Thanks. allixpeeke (talk) 03:17, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Support - reasons listed above. allixpeeke (talk) 03:17, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Support - the few contents can easily be added to this article, and may already be contained here. Boneyard90 (talk) 05:11, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Support - obvious merge of an orphaned stub.oknazevad (talk) 22:48, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I decided to be bold and just do the merge.oknazevad (talk) 23:00, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

The Grim Reaper
"Death is a part of life, Death is inevetible, if you embrace death he will accept you" Quote from: K.M.PMA 13:24, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

I was linked to this page from "The Grim Reaper" and was interested to know specifically why death was personified as someone with a scythe... the article doesn't say anything about reaping souls, possible biblical connections with this (like in the parable about the man who will harvest all of his crop together, and sort the good crop from the weeds), and just generally the importance of agricultural imagery... also it might have a sort of equalising thing... I don't know! But I think at least something should be said as to WHY death is personified as a reaper, even if it seems obvious! 129.67.138.111 (talk) 23:13, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

125.60.156.199 (talk) 07:19, 9 December 2013 (UTC)I already saw the angel of death. When I was sick, I saw him in our attic. He was in a gown with a hood. I did not see his body because he was invisible. He was a shadow, holding a rake. Maybe that's why he was called reaper. I prayed to God so that he would not take me. After my experience, I researched on the internet regarding in what I saw. I learned that it is a mere shadow. I was not mistaken

Angel of Death and the Reaper
Ellebada (talk) 07:35, 9 December 2013 (UTC)I already saw the angel of death. When I was sick, I saw him in our attic. He was in a gown with a hood. I did not see his body because he was invisible. He was a shadow, holding a rake. Maybe that's why he was called reaper. I prayed to God so that he would not take me. After my experience, I researched on the internet regarding in what I saw. I learned that it is a mere shadow. I was not mistaken
 * What does this have to do with the article? This Talk page is for improvement of the article, not discussion of the subject. - Boneyard90 (talk) 14:00, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Any idea
Any idea where/when the "classic" robe and sycthe visage of the Grim Reaper originates?

Yes in fact the classic robe and scythe became famous from Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens but it originated about 200B.C.E.--71.177.40.198 (talk) 02:17, 17 March 2011 (UTC) When your time is up and Death come for you and you look upon its face,all confusion will be erased... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.11.122.81 (talk) 09:23, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

I already saw the angel of death. When I was sick, I saw him in our attic. He was in a gown with a hood. I did not see his body because he was invisible. He was a shadow, holding a rake. Maybe that's why he was called reaper. I prayed to God so that he would not take me. After my experience, I researched on the internet regarding in what I saw. I learned that it is a mere shadow. I was not mistaken06:52, 9 December 2013 (UTC)125.60.156.199 (talk)

The classic image of the robe, scythe and hourglass come from Greek mythology. The titan Kronos (or Cronus) controlled time and wielded a giant scythe. Agriculture and time were associated together because there was great importance in the seasons and when food could be planted. The end of the harvest season and the coming of winter was also associated with death, which led to the Grim Reaper using Kronos' tools; the scythe and the hourglass. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.220.194.129 (talk) 08:42, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Is Death a "he" or a "He"?
He seems to be just as eternal and omniprescent as God. Not sure if that's the requirement for capitalized pronouns, or if Wikipedia follows the Bible's style guide. Anyone know more, or work Google better than I do? InedibleHulk (talk) 02:48, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Lower case. — Llywelyn II   04:12, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Focus
This article, like many other religious articles, heavily focuses on abrahamic religions. These sections need to be shortened or other sub sections need to be extended. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.164.142.186 (talk) 17:26, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Why? At the moment, followers of the Abrahamic religions constitute a majority of humanity; there's never any call for removing well-cited and appropriate work; and if there's not well-cited and appropriate material for the other sections, they'll remain short. Don't be such an oikophobe. — Llywelyn II   04:17, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Cleanup
Ideally, this article and death god shouldn't cover exactly the same material. This one should be reserved for mythological and legendary personifications of death and only those gods who directly represent the concept death like Mot (="Death") and Thanatos (=Death), not figures like Hades who simply rule over the dead. Afaik, Yama and all his East Asian cuts-and-pastes need to go, along with some of the other deities like the Korean psychopomp.

Along similar lines, the arrangement of the article shouldn't be random #Region, #Region, #Region, #In Abrahamic religion, and #Pop culture. Instead, a more sensible treatment would have groups something like #Polytheism, #Monotheism, #Secular. The polytheism section could have a hatnote prominently pointing to the separate treatment of death gods. — Llywelyn II   04:26, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

"Death touch"
Previously the second line of the lead referred to this supposed property by linking to an article about a martial arts move. I found that a bit misplaced. Can anyone actually verify this is related to Death? What I assume it means is that as soon as Death touched you, you would be dead. But that still has nothing to do with martial arts. Bataaf van Oranje (Prinsgezinde) (talk) 07:49, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

Origins in England?
I am highly doubtful about the unreferenced statement that the image first appeared in England. It is well-documented during the Middle Ages in Italy, so it is hard to believe it would emerge in and was diffused from a relatively peripheral region of Europe, as was England in the 1300. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.37.225.193 (talk) 13:29, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

Grim Reaper
I think the "Grim Reaper" is different. It should be split into it's own page. 2601:C2:8403:A917:B01B:F838:2A4D:E4D7 (talk) 03:05, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

Unsourced Material
This article contains information that is unsourced and should either be removed or given proper citations.--Paleface Jack (talk) 18:04, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Grim Reaper redirects here, but doesn't really help
This has been mentioned here a few times already, but the problem remains: the page "Grim Reaper" redirects here, but the article has very little information about how the archetypal "grim reaper" concept actually evolved. If "Grim Reaper" is not to have its own page, then this page needs to actually talk about it. --PlantPerson (talk) 14:36, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

Death (angels) in Judaism
I was wondering if someone could possibly expand, or elaborate on, or even provide a link to an explanation of, the format of the citations used throughout this section (e.g. "'Ab. Zarah 20b", "Tan. on Gen. xxxix. 1."). They seem to be citations of standard, well-known works, but their existence in this form throughout renders them impenetrable to non-experts. There are also some citations that refer in an abbreviated way to named authors, but these authors and their works are not then found in the Bibliography.216.105.214.147 03:11, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

The whole "In Judaism" section is a mess. I'm Jewish and I can't make heads or tails of it! The writing is completely incoherent: I can't tell where one story ends and the next story begins. Also, what are the sources of these stories? Where and when are they from? With what schools of thought are they associated? I wish I could fix the section myself, but I'm not nearly knowledgeable enough on the subject. Bluemonkee (talk) 23:10, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Agreed with Bluemonkee: the citations, in particular, seem to be fixed to a template that goes to a Church of Christ website for scripture, which is hardly appropriate to the Jewish interpretation, esp when Sefaria exists. https://www.sefaria.org/Habakkuk.2.5?lang=bi so I'm trying to learn how to track back that template to see if other templates exist for citing using a variety of Biblical translations, and then perhaps we can work on the rest of this section? Best, and have a Reflective/Meaningful Three Weeks, if you observe the 3 Weeks, ShiraDest. Shiradestinie (talk) 21:04, 6 July 2020 (UTC) Oh, and Av. Zarah 20b is from the Tractate Avodah Zarah, from the Talmud. Yes, quite well known to those who attend Torah studies at a Beit Midrash, Yeshiva, or any traditional style study sessions in the Orthodox, Conservative/Masorti, or Reconstructionist and even sometimes Reform movement classes. We can work on that, too, time permitting. Best,Shira Shiradestinie (talk) 21:04, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Death in Isphahan
Should there be a mention of the Arabic story of the guy that meets Death at Isphahan? It's in Jorge Luis Borges and mayb in the Arabian Nights.

Any idea where/when the "classic" robe and sycthe visage of the Grim Reaper originates?

Comment, regarding the Arabic story: it's more commonly known as "Appointment in Samarra" or "Death in Samarkand". It has been retold numerous times, including by W. Somerset Maugham; and it provided the title for a novel by John O'Hara about a death which, in its way, was inevitable.Grisunge (talk) 21:42, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Neat! ("Death in Samarkand") I will (one day...) look up the Borges ref. and look for it in the 1001 Nights (again, one day...): I would be happy to work together on editing that section, too, if a reading of the original Mille et une Nuits helps? ShiraDest. Shiradestinie (talk) 21:13, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

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Linguistic issue
'"While in Germanic folklore, including English, Death is male (der Tod), in Latin folklore it is female (la muerte, la mort)."'

The above seems to be a misinterpretation of [grammatical gender]. Obviously, Death is masculine in German and feminine in Romance languages, but that has no relationship to actual gender. I have never seen a traditional depiction of Death as a woman. He is generally either understood to be male or an asexual spirit.Ollock 22:35, 14 July 2006 (UTC) I don't know about the folklore or the visual art, but Death is personified as a woman in French and Spanish literature. "Madame la Mort" appears in plays and songs in French; Death as a woman appears (among other places) in works by Lorca, and in Antonio Machado's elegy for Lorca, "El crimen fue en Granada." Grisunge (talk) 21:30, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Obviously, Death is masculine in German and feminine in Romance languages, but that has no relationship to actual sex. Excuse me to say so, but: You must be kidding.--91.34.237.85 (talk) 12:46, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Also La Parca, from Castillian Spanish usage (as in Joan Manuel Serrat's version of the song Mediterraneo)... I cannot seem to find the section I saw from the Read section of the Article here in the Talk section, though. ShiraDest. Shiradestinie (talk) 21:09, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

In French lit, e.g. Clochemerle, Death is called La Faucheuse (the reaper) because la mort is feminine. Fuficius Fango (talk) 18:18, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

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