Talk:Peruvian cuisine/Archive 1

Huh?
This article reads like something you would read in the travel section of a newspaper, or a school paper on Peruvian food. It's not NPOV and it doesn't belong on Wikipedia. Someone needs to improve this. - Big Brother is Watching.

I agree about the NPOV. For example, the Everyday Peruvian cuisine section is unabashedly flattering. Do we just get rid of those parts? - RandyUang 05:35, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I assume you mean that sentence:
 * Due to the rich variety and harmony in the flavor of its ingredients, Peruvian cuisine is constantly prized internationally and its chefs often receive distinguishing medals.
 * I agree with deleting that unless someone can cite specific sources for these many prizes and medals.--Fenice 05:53, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Big Brother is right about this reading like the travel section of a newspaper. The Spanish wikipedia article on which this was based is partially plagarized from http://www.lapalmainteractivo.com/vida/content/vida/rincon_culinario/072205_rincon_culinario.html.

has anybody noticed that it says "chupe de camarones" is from the coast of peru ,only to say later that it comes from Arequipa an andean city. I´m from Perú, so i am 100% sure that chupe de camarones is NOT a dish from de coast region. It´s true that origin is in Arequipa, an adean city (above 2000 ). And also "camarones" that sometimes are traslated to shrimp are found mostly on rivers, like the one in Camaná , in Arequipa , that´s suposed to have the best ones.

--cfs14

"Peruvian cuisine is usually considered one of the most diverse in the world and only disputes world cuisine tournaments with French, Chinese and Indian cuisine (hindu) as the leading masters of this art."-- Uh, we probably need some sort of study to back up this opening sentence. I like Peruvian food and all but Im sure some Japanese, Thai, Italian, Spanish, Ethiopian, Greek, or American chefs may disagree, not that its really quantifiable in the first place. FancyPants 05:25, 9 July 2006 (UTC)(amongst others of course)

Spanish Wikipedia
Perhaps someone could translate this?

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastronom%C3%ADa_del_Per%C3%BA


 * I've added this to the list of translation requests on Translation into English on your behalf. SteveW | Talk 12:54, 17 May 2005 (UTC)


 * That article is a very brief introduction and looooooooooong lists of regional dishes, mostly with untranslatable names. I doubt it would be worth the trouble. -- Viajero 13:22, 17 May 2005 (UTC)


 * I'm translating this beast right now. 64.171.116.224 is also me, I wasn't logged in when I did the first two bits. Fernando Rizo 01:27, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * I just have added a lot of interesting things in the spanish article. If somebody can translate into english I will be very happy. Thank you in advance. Manuel González Olaechea 17:28, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Can you just copy the new text into the English version? This is possible during the Spanish translation week of an article.--Fenice 17:51, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Already done. Thanks. Manuel González Olaechea 20:11, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * I've excised the following from the article, as it strikes me as unencyclopedic to point out one restaurant in this context:  "La oferta de restaurantes de toda naturaleza y especialización es enorme. Uno de ellos, de lujo, que se encuentra frente al mar en la Costa Verde, ofrece a mediodía un servicio libre con más de seis cientos platos diferentes en forma simultánea, lo cual es absolutamente inusual para un restaurante."  Fernando Rizo 01:36, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Costa Verde is the name of the beach of Lima, near 15 kilometers or more. The name of the restaurant is not mentioned. But who knows can identified it. The translation of Costa Verde is Green Coast.Manuel González Olaechea 07:51, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Oye, dame un poco de credito, carajo. ;) I realize that the translation of Costa Verde is Green Coast. Lo que yo estoy diciendo es que esa parte del articulo no debe estar en la Encyclopedia. Si hay un restaurante de lujo o no en la Costa Verde, eso no pinta nada en una descripcion de la cocina peruana. Fernando Rizo 08:43, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Tranqui Fernando, que lo interesante es que se ofrecen 600 platos diferentes a la hora del buffet a medio día. Qué otro restaurante lo tiene ? eso es la diferencia. Manuel González Olaechea 11:02, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Translation
A brief translation of the above referenced site has been placed in Temp/Peruvian Cuisine.

Cocoa
The articles Cocoa and Cacao claim that the plant is native to South America. I removed it from the list of items imported from Africa, but it has been replaced. &mdash; Pekinensis 20:21, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Translation question
What does "la bebida nacional de bandera" mean? &mdash; Pekinensis 02:34, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * I've translated it as 'national beverage'; I'm guessing that the "de bandera" part is a colloquialism. Fernando Rizo 02:14, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree.--Fenice 06:12, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I would translate it as 'the national flagship bevarage' possibly redundant, but there are other sodas that have also become staples of peru, like 'kola inglesa' —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.90.106.180 (talk) 07:00, 9 December 2006 (UTC).

Acutally, there is a specific legal definition in addition to the "common" defintion (correctly, in my opinion) mentioned here. Legally there are 7 "Productos de Bandera" which have been identified by a legally organized committee of government, business and cultural advisors. These 7 include the Gastronomy of Peru, the Chulucana style (sp?) handcrafted clay work from Peru´s Nothern region, the Lucuma fruit (closest thing you may know is they Mamay), the Maca tuber, the products made from South American Cameloids (sp?) (eg. the Guanaco (sp), the Llama, the Alapaca, and my personal favorite the Vicuña), along with Pisco. I will try to log in properly (I am not deliberately being anonymous!) and eventually find an appropriate place to clarify the Bandera issue as well as update at least the Peruvian Cuisine entry.

bullet lists
Although I do not know any spanish, and therefore ignore me if you wish, surely some of those ugly, enormously long lists could be either 1) put into tables with two or three columns to reduce scrolling time 2)put into sentences as lists as most of them appear to be simply ((title)) of ((special name)) 3)given some description, as I have no idea whatsoever what the names mean!

Furthermore, an encyclopedia should surely be more than a list of dishes, rather a history of the development of peruvian cuisine.

--Mark Lewis 13:22, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I concur. Especially given that some of these lists are little more than (for example) a Spanish-language listing of flavors of ice cream, while others are dishes that almost anyone in the English-speaking world would fined quite exotic (roasted alpaca, anyone?). -- Jmabel | Talk June 29, 2005 00:38 (UTC)


 * I also agree on the ugliness of the long lists. They are not very informative and appear to strive to include every possible combination of Peruvian food. I am not sure of the source of the listing but it almost seems like an index out of the back of a recipe book. The ice cream listing is a good example, as previosly mentioned. Ice cream is not specific to Peru and whilst a couple of flavours of tropical fruits might be unique to that country, the listing is really not required. In regard to the other dishes, I feel that perhaps just a few dishes (no more than 10 or 15, for example)unique to Peru should be retained for illustrative purposes. When I say unique, I mean by either by popularity (ceviche, lomo saltado, Papa a la huancaina, chicharrones, aji de gallina, anticuchos), exotic (eg guinea pig), method of preparation (pachamanca). My examples above are not exhaustive but a starting point for discussion. I lived in Peru for some 10 months and whenever the subject of food came up, locals would often asked me whether I had tried the above. I would also suggest that recipes be added in the Wikipedia cookbook and linked for the few retained dishes.Conce 15:40, 2005 August 1 (UTC)


 * I agree with other editors above; I don't think these long lists are particularly effective. I'd like to see three sections, costal cuisine (criollo), Andean, and Amazon, each with a brief overview of the best-known dishes from the respective regions. -- Viajero | Talk 14:39, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

Deletions
I have undertaken to chop done down the list and provide something more descriptive in its place. I have a little knowledge of Peru and a very few of its dishes, but I don't pretend to be an expert by any means. ( I was married to a Peruvian for 26 years-lived some months in Peru and have a little Spanish). If I delete something in one of the lists inadvertently that others feel I shouldn't, accept my apologies in advance and revert. I have no desire to delete for example, :-) mention of the Huachurucho recipe with a 2000 year-old tradition that is part of Peru's cultural heritage :-)but I think we can all do without mere listings of Mousse and Ice cream. Conce 19:32, 2005 August 2 (UTC)

Deletions/Cleanup
I have got rid of the lengthy listings, but retained a few of the items and inserted brief descriptions where none were provided previously. Also I have attempted to keep items which contained links (exception:- Where the same link destination appears elsewhere on page). Where items had some work or description, these have been retained. Still got a way to go but believe the page is at the point where it is easier for folks to edit.Conce 14:06, 2005 August 3 (UTC)

Image of Pisco in glasses deleted
Because I combined two sections dealing with Pisco ( and alcoholic drinks), it seems that two photos relating to Pisco would be overkill. I felt that the Image showing the different Pisco bottles had more variety so kept that one. Conce 21:13, 2005 August 4 (UTC)

Image relating to Pachamanca
The image of the Pachamanca previosly had unverified tag (possible later deletion.) I found the same image in in the Spanish version of the article with a GDFL licence. Accordingly I have retagged the image in the English version of Peruvian Cuisine with the GDFL licence and have credited the photographer. Conce 01:01, 2005 August 11 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I must have missed something. Xauxa 10:41, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Llama?
I am not a native of Peru, but I have spent a great deal of time there. This article claims that llama is major part of highland cuisine, I'm sure that llama is ocasionaly eaten, however, I have never seen it on any menu. Alpaca is a common highland food and I have changed the article acordingly.

Similar to the above entry, I have just "corrected" the description with Charqui, to reflect the reality that Llama is infrequently used, with the overwhelming majority being produced from Alpaca ("Paco") and sheep. I neglected to mention the exact reason in the main article. Alpaca is raised for its hair (aka wool), meat and as a beast of burden. Llama meat is generally the result of an aged animal which can no longer "carry its weight."

Manjar Blanco
The article contains a passing reference in the following phrase.
 * manjarblanco (a sort of milk caramel)

This is incorrect. What this is attempting to refer to is "dulce de leche" which is something different (albeit made using similar ingredients). The key is that properly made manjar blanco is not significantly caramelized (although, it is not unusual for someone to make dulce de leche instead, since it is easier and faster, simply call it "manjar blanco" for expedience). Manjar blanco is (as the name implies) supposed to be white or nearly white which means that it cannot be a caramel.

I'm correcting the article accordingly. --Mcorazao 16:16, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Specific: Ceviche (ref: Lime/Onion") and a variety of "Other Changes"
First, I wish to recognize the obvious work put into this page previously. It appears to have reached something of a consensus position, and increasingly NPOV style (though with just how darned delicious Peruvian food is, it is tough to be neutral -- but I´ll leave opinions to this discussion page, not in the main article!).

Anyway, I have just made a quick runthrough of this page cleaning up a wide variety of "small" issues which can be seen in "History" under my IP.

My changes & amplifications are based on a 7 year professional & personal involvment in Peruvian (and other) Cuisine and have my confidence with one exception: I reworded what I believe was a typograpghical error which cited "Mediterranian Onions"  and "Acific" (sic) Lemon" as ingredients.  I clarified the Lemon/Lime isssue (as this article is in English) and changed Mediterranian to North African (it is actually a Moroccan lime)...each of those changes I am comfortable with, however perhaps in fact the origin of that onion was the Mediterranian region - though I don´t think so.  Please re-insert the Mediteranian Onion reference if someone knows otherwise. 

Furthemore, I shall learn how to "log in" with a name, as I intend to devote some significant time on this particular article, and welcome any comments, or in fact corrections, as merited. My present "aononimity" is not deliberate.

PD: I left a reference to Ceviche using "Lime or Lemon" as ingredients, since it is theoreticaly possible, though not done in Peru..but, for those sad folks who don´t have access to acidic limes could at least have an approximation of the flavor! In a similar vein, I left a reference to "popcorn and/or toasted corn" in Conchas Negras, since perhaps just because I have NEVER seen or heard of popcorn (palomitas) being served with conchas negras, perhaps I have missed something. I hope somoeone else can clarify this.

mmm..has anybody noticed that the photo says "ceviche de mariscos"(seafood). not only is it in spanish but is also incorrect. the picture shows ceviche de pescado( fish). is quite obvious isn´t it? ,for whatever reason i can´t change it. could someone do it please?. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.230.35.179 (talk) 00:55, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

World Climates
I keep coming across this "fact" in many of the Peru articles-- "Peru has 28 of 32 possible world climates". Does anybody know the source for this? Cuaya 17:08, 22 January 2007 (UTC)Cuaya

Gushiness
OK, I think it's great that some punk at the Economist likes Peruvian food. But I've eaten a good deal of Peruvian food. And, more to the point, I look around at culinary magazines, cookbooks, etc. and the total absence of Peruvian cuisine is pretty apparent. What I'm saying is: how NPOV is this introduction? We can discuss the virtues of Peruvian cuisine without comparing it France, China, and India. Question: where do we find a top-ten list of national cuisines which reads "France, China, India, Peru"? Uh-huh. Top-forty list? Top-eighty list? Somebody? Ethan Mitchell 21:42, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

peruvian cuisine is ranked in the top 10 of the world along with thai, italian, japanese, etc just google food rankings —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 138.237.135.27 (talk • contribs).

As a Peruvian of Andean descent, my family is from the region of Castrovireyna, and I grew up on the coast in Lima, I have to say this article needs A LOT of work, or rather, as the person before me said - IMPROVEMENT, I'm baffled, and quite dissapointed by the lack of information on ANDEAN cuisine, and the constant mention of Japanese and Chinese cuisines, Italian? British? First of all, Japanese and Chinese cuisine have only had a LIMITED (at best!) influence on Peruvian cuisine as a whole, the main components of Peruvian cuisine consist of the natural resources of the coast and the sierra, a mixture of Spanish/European and Quechua/Andean foods and tastes. THERE'S A REASON THIS IS THE PERUVIAN, AND I MEAN PERUVIAN CUISINE PAGE, I'M TIRED OF PEOPLE MAKING FOREIGN INFLUENCES IN PERU SEEM MORE IMPORTANT THAN THEY ARE, WHILE IGNORING THE INDIGENOUS PERUVIAN CULTURE WHICH DOMINATES THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY, please, please, please, focus on PERU. We're in the 21st century now, not the 19th or 20th, let's grow up! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.129.56.10 (talk • contribs).


 * The above comment is a typical example of Peruvian nationalism. This attitude explains why it is so hard to find so many ingredients. People are content eating the same dishes over and over again because they have been told over and over again that Peruvian food is the best on earth. In Peru there is virtually no interest in foreign cuisine. The fact that it is hard to even find authentic Italian cuisine speaks volumes about the situation here in Peru.201.230.68.7 (talk) 23:23, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

Better pictures
We should get better pictures...i pity some of them. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.230.68.168 (talk • contribs).

A Comment on the anonymous post
First of all, please next time you do a post, please sign it, so we all know who to refer to. I agree with you in the fact that this article needs a great deal of work. Peruvian cuisine has won, in fact, recognition and peruvian cheffs have received several prizes in gastronomic festivals through the world. Maybe it is not well known in europe and the northern hemisphere, but that's not because of the lack of awards and recognition, but mostly because of the lack of ingredients. For example, preparing a ceviche exactly like it is done in the northern coast (Talara, for example) is very difficult in USA, because of the hard time someone would have to find the small and extremely acid variety of lemon used to make the dish.

But I disagree with you in your statement that influence of foreign cuisines has been minimal. Peruvian food HAS been influenced by oriental food (like soy sauce and the extensive use of rice) and also by others, like italian. As Peruvian people are (i'm also peruvian, just to let you know), peruvian cuisine is a mix of influences from many countries (including native influences of course), and that is what makes it so varied and appreciated.

Definitely we need to work a little more on this article. --Carlos 20:34, 14 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I suggest you look for limes next time. There are numerous varieties available in the United States. If you shop at any Indian or Middle Eastern store you will find the same exact variety. Unlike in Peru where only one variety of lime exists. There are no lemons in Peru, only an insipid, almost tasteless, fruit known as limetta. So much for the so-called variety of foods in Peru. I have been living in Peru for four years now and I can tell the influence of foreign cuisine is very minimal. The majority of Peruvian are nationalists and are not interested in trying new foods in the least. The Chinese, Japanese and other foreigners have had to drastically adapt their cuisine because of the very limited number of ingredients available in Peru. It is next to impossible to find authentic Chinese, Japanese, Indian or Middle Eastern food in Peru. 201.230.68.7 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:17, 4 April 2010 (UTC).

World Climates part II
So I checked the Wiki article on the Holridge Life Zones and it turns out there are only 38 possible climate zones according to Holridge. This article claims that Peru has "84 of the 104 possible life zones according to Holdridge". I can't find any source for this so I'm deleting. Cuaya (talk) 06:21, 17 August 2008 (UTC)